23-05-2004 02:05									#121
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

We need someone to step up and play a set. Trajanus posted last May 6. I am next off the bench after someone else plays. Next off, in order, debeest, Grigor, and Trajanus.

Eligibles:
Number one would be Old n Slow who gave the start but has not played yet.
-Jrabbit was last to be released from the holding tank
Elephant, Sparrowhawk, duke of york, and SG1 have played or posted in this thread.
Anyone else, come on down.

Monk

	23-05-2004 08:25									#122
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

In an earlier free-for-all, I suggested that when no one is stepping up, those in the queue should be welcome to jump in. I think it happened some, and I think it served to keep the game moving and fresh in people's minds. I suggest it now as a general rule for free-for-alls. If there's general agreement, I think Monk or others should feel free to play while the rest of us try to manage RL.

	24-05-2004 22:47									#123
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@-JR

Way to go on the Scorched Earth finish!!

Maybe now you can take up the mantle in this Romp??

I think we should stick to the "last four benched" rule for the time being. What do you and others think of debeest's proposal??

Monk

	25-05-2004 01:45									#124
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I was minorly deliberate with not specifying a playing roster at the start. (potential hint)

Also, I think we're discovering a minor flaw with the free for all roster system -- those available for play may give it a lower priority -- either due to the other obligations, or to the fear of not being able to colplete their turns and thus experiencing the risk of wasted effort.

I've been meaning to jump in (now that there is an active decision to take this to a medium timae frame game.), but I'll just have to let myself get a bit dirty first.

	25-05-2004 02:09									#125
	Support Apolyton

OK...go "Dirty" yourself first, though, this one has been on hold longer.

As to the "wasted effort" part, it seems like we have solved this possibility by the "call the ball" rule adaptation.

Your hint thing escapes me...unless you are intimating that you don't feel competent to start the game?? Atrocious is as "atrocious" does, so to speak (but that's the other game ), right??

See you soon.

Monk

	26-05-2004 01:01									#126
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maybe we should advertise in some other civ2 subforums here on apolyton or elsewhere! lots of ppl there who still play civ

	26-05-2004 01:15									#127
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I splashed it over the Status thread. It's a slow time, I guess. Time to catch up on some reading.

Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of ....

Monk

	26-05-2004 02:47									#128
	Put an end to popups!

I'm on it...

	26-05-2004 03:09									#129
	Increase Your PM Length

Yea!!

Most excellent news. Do us proud, -JR.

Monk

	26-05-2004 22:47									#130
	Got spare money?

It'll be a couple days -- I'm busy tonight.

Looking at the game, we're definitely ahead. The Americans are toast, and only 2 civs (Japs and Vikes) have more than 3 cities. And we're the only ones with Crusaders. Only one AI has a white tech (Seafaring, Egyptians).

I'm wondering if it might make sense to shut down science completely and try to romp as-is...

We're completely infrastructure-free except in the capital. Not even a temple elsewhere. But we do have most of the WoWs...

We've started on Mike's (already have the HG), but it might make more sense to grab the GL (to slow down AI research) first.

I want to get Magellan.

I'm going to try to go through this thread a bit more carefully before I proceed.

Comments and suggestions from the RAR peanut gallery would be most welcome at this point...

	26-05-2004 23:36									#131
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Good ideas.

If you are going to shut down science (putting Magellan out of reach), then the priority must be Uppsala for the Lighthouse. We now have 9 shackled triremes that would be a greater help if they didn't have to hug the coast. Unfortunately, the fleet is going the wrong way for an assault on Uppsala. I would drop off the assault force and return to homeworld for more, better killers. It's a long haul overland so maybe those ones should take and hold a Jap foothold.

Blackclicking reveals a shortcut to Vik homeland by making a canal city at (102,70). Sending some demanded vans along with the strike force is recommended, to be delivered before capturing, to fill our coffers for rushing more headbangers...o yes, and for the beakers. lol

Mike's Chapel would be nice, too.

I feel confident that you will find even better ideas as this map is redolent with possiblities. Get rabid, Bunnyman!!

Monk

	27-05-2004 21:14									#132
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Well I chose Japs because they were closest and it took a long time to get the triremes where they are now already!!

Without a doubt the Japs are dead meat... A good thing would be to build a new city down below near the ocean so you can reach the Vikings quicker and quickbuilding a few boats in that city.. your captured Jap cities producing offensive troops of course

It takes AGES to get your troops from the hometowns to the vikings with boats

	27-05-2004 22:36									#133
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Trajanus Well I chose Japs because they were closest and it took a long time to get the triremes where they are now already!! Without a doubt the Japs are dead meat... A good thing would be to build a new city down below near the ocean so you can reach the Vikings quicker and quickbuilding a few boats in that city.. your captured Jap cities producing offensive troops of course It takes AGES to get your troops from the hometowns to the vikings with boats

I did not mean anything other than, at this point ,the Lighthouse is a key strategic consideration. Look again at your last point and think how much harder it will be reaching the Egytians and Chin if we have to hug the coast.

Your second point merits consideration. Take Edo, Osaka, and Satsuma, connect all with roads, and make a canal on the hill at (130,72), giving access to the Viking Sea. Is what you had in mind??

Monk

	27-05-2004 22:42									#134
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Hi guys,

A rare SG sighting!
Off to Paris this w/e - but might even get some Civin' in next week...

Stu

	27-05-2004 23:06									#135
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Great to have you back, Stu!! Paris in the springtime...color me envious.

Monk

	28-05-2004 01:10									#136
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Stu sighting!

	28-05-2004 19:00									#137
	400 AD zipfile Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

We're getting close to the Romp stage. I wanted to do something dramatic, but the situation seemed to call for a more measured approach.

Herewith the save...

Attachment: sa_ad 400.zip
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

	28-05-2004 20:16									#138
	Rabbitlog Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Once again, -Jrabbit gets into drag queen mode er, dons the ceremonial Sacajawea leathers...

It's 200 AD. We are a Monarchy of 20 cities and 1.73 MM ppl. There is 190 GP in the treasury under the traditional 30-70-0 research regimen. Studying Feudalism (arrgh! Hate to give up 1st-row RB...), about 1/2-way there.

Foreign minister reports the Japanese and Vikings each has 8 cities. No one else has more than 3. We are the clear leaders in the tech race, with only Egypt's Seafaring in the white.

We have crusaders, so a no-science approach might work -- if not for the naval issues. To get Magellan, we need Seafaring and Navigation. From there, it's just Physics to Steam engine and/or Magnetism. Other near-future options would be to grab Banking for Invention, en route to Gunpowder and Democracy. Also, a University for our SSC might be nice.

We have republic, but a far-flung empire with far too many boats abroads. So that's out.

In WoW world, we are building Mike's Chapel (7 shields at a time) in our capital. Others are studying the Great Library and Great Wall. Once Feudalism is complete, we can build Sun Tzu's War Academy. Then there's the whole KRC thing, which I've decided would be fun. But what I really want is Magellan's Expeiditon...

That's a lot of camels....

Turnset Goals
-- Use troops en route to attack the Japs.
-- Rush camels on the homeland island toward WoWs. Build at least one.
-- Get to Navigation!!
-- Explore as much as possible.

We fire a couple Elvi, replacing them with Eirs. A few increments are purchased. We lose 3 shields changing Slim Buttes build order from MC to Marketplace.
We press ENTER.

220 AD
--Tacitus says we're the largest civilization in history.
--Elvis re-hired in Dead Buffalo (about to grow).
--Greeks chat, demand Philospohy. We decline this generous offer, demur on a CF, stay at WAR!

240 AD
--Incremental builds leave us only 84 GP.
--Dead Buffalo starts xinning for beakers.
--Big Mound and Stormy Lake grow into disorder
--Our armada encounters a loader Japanese trireme. Diplomat and ellie debark near Edo. We chat. They demand tribute. We don't pay. They declare WAR!
--Our empty trireme sinks their full one, going deep into the red but making Veteran.
--Silk delivered from Point of Rocks to Slim Buttes for 50 GP and a +1 route.

260 AD
--We discover FEUDALISM! Select Seafaring over Banking, Bridge, University, and Theology.
--Eins are replaced by IRS agents to better accommodate increments. Sliders reverse to 70% tax for one turn.
--We chat with Egyptians, who demand and receive the sacred art of The Republic. Gifting them Literacy makes them neutral. They then trade us SEAFARING for Philosophy.
--Remaining elephants debark near Edo...

280 AD
--Tech choices are about the same, adding Chivalry, Invention, and Medicine -- but NOT Navigation! We chose Chivalry.
--Edo is attacked and emptied. Now down to size 1, we have no choice but the RAZE the place.
--Japs chat, demand Republic (no), request CF (ok, since we have injured and exposed troops, plus a nearby camel), ask for peace trreaty (agreed).
--Greek archer is killed outside Thermopylae.
--Hut yields unattached NOMADS.

300 AD
--Japs abandon Great Library.
--Marketplace completed in Slim Buttes (starts on camel).
--Silver delivered, 3 Forks to Osaka, 88 GP.

320 AD
--Japanese start Great Library :huh:
--Vikings, Russians sign peace treaty.
--Egypt goes to The Republic.
--Our wantering horseman (now near Boston) is surrounded by two Jap units and a Vike legion.

340 AD
--Japs demand our horse leave, we renounce the stupid treaty. Horse is attacked by warrior -- and lives!
--Hut yields advanced tribe of Morning Rock (with fish and wine).
--We found the hamlet of Vicious Bunny on our north island.
--Thermopylae legion kills Greek warrior, makes Vet.
--Troops surround Kyoto (7)

360 AD
--Despite the fact that we have very spiffy uniforms and are really, really nice folks when you get to know us, the Japanese and Vikings agree to a "secret" alliance against us.
--Fat Buttes grows to size 4, in temproary disorder. (oops)
--The battle for Kyoto begins. We lose an elephant, they lose an archer. Crusaders arrive and take position.
--Sliders templ to 70-30-0 for RB boost.

380 AD
--We complete Michelangelo's Chapel in Slim Buttes.
--All Elvi and Eins are notified that their services, while valued greatly, would not be required.
--Kyoto, defended by a legion, archer, trireme, and reinforcements from Osaka, puts up a worthy fight. We lose a legion and a crusader. By the time we move in, it's down to size 3. Plunder = a much-needed 98 GP.
--Triremes shuffle about, thinking there may be a semi-shipchain back to the homeland.
--Kyoto demands copper, dye, wine. The first two are both available to build.
--Hut gives advanced tribe called Bunny Luck.
--We found the city of Monk's Canal at (102, 70).
--Japs (4 spears) chat, demand tribute of 50 GP. We snort derisively. They declare WAR!
--Back to normal 30-70-0 research.

400 AD
--Osaka too pricy to revolt (425). The Vike canal city is cheaper, but still out of our price range.
--Beads from Dead Buffalo delivered to Slim Butte (finally, our third route!). 54 GP.

-Jrabbit retires.
(Edited for accuracy per Sparrowhawk notes...)

Last edited by -Jrabbit on 28-05-2004 at 23:33

	28-05-2004 20:25									#139
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Hm, should provide some notes for my successor...

1. Homeland is all about camels for WoWs. I recommend STWA next, followed (it is hoped) by Magellan. If not, then KRC.

2. There's a settler on the NW island, just dropped off in a nice 3-special location (2 whales!). My intent was to drop a city there.

3. The trireme near that NW location was intended to head north and drop its explorer along the North Pole.

4. Camels are being build most everywhere. Those from off our main island are intended to fuel a brief spurt of trading.

Our whole approach to this game should be to cut the Vikes and Japs down to zoo status. These two have the potential to get out of control and run toward Industrialization, especially since they're allied. The other civs are all pretty pathetic.

Once we have STWA, this should, in fact, be a ROMP.

	28-05-2004 20:28									#140
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Oh, Yeeaaah!! I like what you've done. The new city is one I had in mind, too. No not that one, though , I mean Vicious Bunny. Having pairs at our offshore sites will make the pick-ups more effective and valuable. Also, you got us Mike's removing the stymie to further city size and number. I assume the van production is for STWA and trade, possibly King Ricky??

Also, thanks for posting bail for me to get outta jail, . I am itching to play next, but will await your log and see if some other body steps up.

Monk

	28-05-2004 22:52									#141
	Re: Rabbitlog Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Sounds like a Romp is well in order, and as the number of active games diminishes (3 down in the last week or so ), this one should get the attention it deserves. I hope to get in a turnset before this one is over, but given the parameters I doubt I will find the time before it is over.

quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit 260 AD --We discover FEUDALISM! Select Seafaring over Banking, Bridge, University, and Theology. -- ... --We chat with Egyptians, who demand and receive the sacred art of The Republic. Gifting them Philosophy makes them neutral. They then trade us SEAFARING for Philosophy. -- ... 280 AD --Tech choices are about the same, adding Chivalry, Invention, and Medicine -- but NOT Seafaring! We chose Chivalry.

You lost me a bit in this section of your log (as I think you may have mixed up the techs, but for the life of me I can't seem to replace the right ones and figure out which you meant. Care to clarify for those of us without "Bunny Luck"

* Sparrowhawk

	28-05-2004 23:23									#142
	D'OH!!! Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Going back over my notes, the passage should read like this...

quote: 260 AD --We discover FEUDALISM! Select Seafaring over Banking, Bridge, University, and Theology. --We chat with Egyptians, who demand and receive the sacred art of The Republic. Gifting them LITERACY makes them neutral. They then trade us SEAFARING for Philosophy. 280 AD --Tech choices are about the same, adding Chivalry, Invention, and Medicine -- but NOT NAVIGATION! We choose Chivalry.

:stupid: Was kinda rushed when I threw the log together. :stupid:
(Last day of my company's fiscal year, so I'm a tad busy.)

Good catch, Lord of Sparrowville. Sorry for the confusion. Hope this clears it up.

	28-05-2004 23:30									#143
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quote: Originally posted by Bloody Monk Oh, Yeeaaah!! I like what you've done. The new city is one I had in mind, too. No not that one, though , I mean Vicious Bunny. Having pairs at our offshore sites will make the pick-ups more effective and valuable. Also, you got us Mike's removing the stymie to further city size and number. I assume the van production is for STWA and trade, possibly King Ricky?? Also, thanks for posting bail for me to get outta jail, . I am itching to play next, but will await your log and see if some other body steps up. Monk

Home continent camel production is planned for STWA, hoping we can get to Navigation/Magellan next. KRC would be a nice grace note but hardly necessary.

But it's a sxn game, so who knows???

I probably should have held off on building Monk's Canal. The dip-in-boat headed toward Egyptian land will soon encounter an island hut that could be a better target. Plus, it was a NONE engineer. I usually try to put those guys to work on the road-and-farm crew, but wanted to utilize the knowledge gained in you blackclicking before it was lost in the mists of time...

	29-05-2004 02:59									#144
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I have the save and will play tonight.

Monk

	29-05-2004 12:25									#145
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finished but it's late...save and log tomorrow.

tease...got STWA, King R, and set up Magellan. Did some a-kicking in J'ville.

must sleep now.

Monk

	30-05-2004 01:46									#146
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SUMMARY

Took 2 cities, built 3 WOW's and prep'ed a 4th. Added 5 Setts, 12 Grunts, 2 2-Movers, and 3 Boats.

LOG 400-600a

400
Make two changes, switching to boats. Discover Chivalry --> Navigation

420
Build RabidRabbit as requested. Nomad from Hut near Egypt. Change sliders to 70% tax. This is based on a general feeling that Science is bad for us.

440
Demand tribute from Vik, get War. With the cash just produced bribe Satsuma (which helpfully went into disorder over night) for 234g, getting back 68g and the sale of a granary. Feeling flush with cash I bribe Vik Legion and Warrior for 164g total. Begin an ongoing process of rehoming units as the occassion arises to max shield generation and spread support.

460
moving units, rushing others, rehoming

480
Take Osaka + 100g spoils.

500
Rush a boat for naval defense -v- approching pirates

520-580
Kill various Jap, Vik, Greek units (3 Chairs, 3Legs, 1Crook, 2 Warriors)
Build Sun Tzu and King Rich!!

600
Kill 2 Greek Phlanx, Jap Elle and Cat, Vik Elle
Complete Great Wall

Monk

	30-05-2004 01:50									#147
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Here is the save

Monk says opps

	30-05-2004 01:53									#148
	Remove this text

Trying again

Monk (feeling a bit rocky today)

Attachment: sa_a600.sav
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	30-05-2004 02:07									#149
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

NOTES AND MUSINGS

I built the Great Wall (completes overnight) to keep it from the AI. No one among them are building it now, but all have been laboring at Great Lib for ages, and, as soon as that completes, the rest will switch to Wall, if they follow past experience. This is preemptive. There are enough vans ready or
being built to make the eight needed for Magellan. They just need gathering from the local environs. Slim Buttes is a special case, depending on what supply opens with the Copper delivery.

Below Satsuma is a boat with a Sett/Archer meant for a hill canal at (130,72). This will facilitate troop transfer to Vik homeland, Upsalla, and the Lighthouse.

3 vans are enroute to Vik (2) and Egypt (1). A Copper van is ready for delivery to Slim Buttes. These deliveries will speed the next few discoveries. The Copper to SB will unblock its supplies and is more important for that purpose than Wonder building, IMHO.

SCIENCE:
I think Invention would be good to get. This will stop the AI getting scrolls from Huts and building the Workshop will upgrade our Trireme fleet to Caravels, important to bump their carrying capacity. I don't think it will be available next as it was up last time. After Invention there are no other
techs we need to win and every discovery from now on will get us closer to the game ending 'cliff', INDUSTRIALIZATION . Likewise, we do not need a University or Ike's, whereas, Banking and Theology might be very handy. Bridge Building, currently under study by the Vik's is a major no-no. If we do not have BB, we don't have to worry about RR, the prerequisite for Indu.

All of this drivel is offered for amusement purposes. Do as thou wilt if your mileage varies...and if you hate mixed metaphors.

I believe this releases debeest from the holding pen. Grigor, Trajanus, -Jrabbit, and the Bloody One . Anyone else can step in by calling for the game.

Monk

	30-05-2004 13:52									#150
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Sound thoughts from the Bloody one, as usual. I'm stepping in.