07-05-2004 21:41									#31
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quote: aaaanyhow, whatever we decide, our choices of civs are going to be a problem (except with random civs). i therefor prefer that everyone choses 2 traits they want, so if 3 people like the dutch, conqueror just changes eg. spain and the english to agri/seafaring. or if several want inca.... you get my point

the problem here is that the UU changes, so that the civ is different. I would rather have the swiss mercenery than a conquestador. If you have to change the civ traits, then I suggest that we disable the all the UUs.

But I'll stick with Agri/Ind.

	09-05-2004 01:47									#32
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no further discussions? what are other people's precise opinions about the map setup?

short summary, how i understood it so far:

andydog: 8 ocean tiles distance equal islands
sabrewolf: 3 ocean tiles distance equal islands
moonbars: random and conqueror just checking and tweaking for fairness

	09-05-2004 01:52									#33
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I'll vote for your 3 ocean tile scheme, chosen civs, and to get the game started.

	09-05-2004 10:46									#34
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf andydog: 8 ocean tiles distance equal islands sabrewolf: 3 ocean tiles distance equal islands

Actually, I was proposing 4 ocean tiles. I was hoping that continents would be separated by 8 tiles - thus 2 of those would be shallow water and 2 would be sea. (If a non-seafarer started their curragh on shallow water, then turn 1 would get him 2 tiles from shallow water past sea onto ocean, turn 2 would be ocean again, and turn 3 would be back to sea - 3 risky turns compared to 2 for a seafarer).

Look I think we're getting unnecessarily bogged down in all this - lets just take 3 ocean tiles and get on with the game!

quote: Originally posted by Krill the problem here is that the UU changes, so that the civ is different. I would rather have the swiss mercenery than a conquestador. If you have to change the civ traits, then I suggest that we disable the all the UUs. But I'll stick with Agri/Ind.

How about we choose a civ (and their associated UU) but have the option to define that civ's attributes? Thus you could choose the Vikings and their Beserker, but have them as an agricultural commercial civ for example.

	09-05-2004 14:54									#35
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like the goldenless wonderPBEM? I like the idea, and it only takes a while to set up. Pick a civ (for the leader head), give it to new traits (or we could go nuts and have 3), and pick a UU.

that would be fun.

What do you think about having 3 traits, if we're picking new UUs?

	09-05-2004 15:21									#36
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i second this idea
i'm in for agri, sea, sci or something like that!
what about techs? 2 or 3 only 1st level techs i presume?


back to the ocean stuff: we are 5 players, so you can't devide continents equally. it's either 3-2 or 2-2-1. the only fait solution is 1-1-1-1-1.
and i'm still hoping for 3 ocean tiles. 4 would be 2 highly deadly turns for the non-seafarer (don't forget we sometime have to just guess and hope we're going the right direction!)

	09-05-2004 15:33									#37
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the techs would be the normal techs, so sci/sea/agri would get BW/Alpha/pottery

	09-05-2004 15:38									#38
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i'm going to make myself some lunch now, then i'll start compiling a list of things to vote about.
hopefully by tonight, we can start chosing our civs and then conquerer has his go

i hope you people are still dedicated for some action, because i hope this game is going to be great
a real builder-PBEM!

	10-05-2004 22:57									#39
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got stuck yesterday...

well, here's the stuff i'd like you all to vote about. please vote for all points, please answer in order of preference (which gives points for each answer: 2, 1 and 0 points),
eg. 1b, 1c, 1a

1: geography:
a) everyone on own continents with 8 ocean-tiles in between (means nearly impossible to cross for non-seafaring civs)
b) everyone on own continents with 3 ocean-tiles in between (at least realistic chance for non-seafarers)
c) random map, conquerer just tweaks and reviews it to make it more fair

2: civs:
a) decide after geography is defined
b) random

3: difficulty level (happiness and goody huts):
a) monarch (2 happy faces)
b) emperor (1 happy face)
c) demigod (1 happy face, non-expansionists have slightly lower chance of friendly goody huts)

4: strategic resources:
a) everyone has at least one of each on his island
b) everyone is missing at least one "ancient" resource (horses, iron), "middle" (coal, saltpeter) and "modern" resource (uranium, rubber) but something else double. (disadvantage: no trading possible for ancient stuff because ocean trading comes late.

5: luxury resources:
a) everyone guaranteed 2, not more, not less
b) everyone guaranteed 3, not more, not less
c) everyone guaranteed 4, not more, not less
d) no guarantees (bad luck if you're stuck alone)

6: number of starting settlers:
a) 2
b) 3
c) 4

7: traits:
a) chose yourself, so multiple same can come, 3 traits
b) chose yourself, so multiple same can come, 2 traits
c) regular civs, discuss until agreed (what happens when some can't agree?)

8: UUs:
a) chose yourself, so multiple same can come
b) no UUs
c) regular civs, discuss until agreed (what happens when some can't agree?)


i think that's all for now. please vote asap

	10-05-2004 23:00									#40
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here's my vote:

1b, 1c, 1a
2a, 2b
3b, 3c, 3a
4a, 4b
5b, 5c, 5a, 5d
6b, 6a, 6c
7a, 7b, 7c
8a, 8b, 8c

edit: i had forgotten 5d

	10-05-2004 23:03									#41
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1) b, c, a

2) a, b

3) a, b, c

4) a, b

5) b, c, d, a

6) b, a, c

7) a, b, c

8) a, b, c

	10-05-2004 23:04									#42
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I promise you Sabrewolf and I did not discuss this before it was posted!!

	10-05-2004 23:07									#43
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please tell me if you want anything else voted about. i didn't ask regular stuff like everyone has river at starting location, everyone has similar amount of cattle/wheat/wine for food, river long enough for 4 civs, everyone has access to fresh water, similar amount of grassland/hill/plains, etc.

	10-05-2004 23:08									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Krill I promise you Sabrewolf and I did not discuss this before it was posted!!

i think most will have a clear outcome anyway. i guess it's geography and traits/UU that's going to be more interesting...

	10-05-2004 23:12									#45
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quote: please tell me if you want anything else voted about. i didn't ask regular stuff like everyone has river at starting location, everyone has similar amount of cattle/wheat/wine for food, river long enough for 4 civs, everyone has access to fresh water, similar amount of grassland/hill/plains, etc.

Since someone is going to check the map anyway, let them make sure the map is balanced, eg some one has a four turn settler pump, but other land is sub optimal, or starts on plains, but has a river, ivory, and a cow etc.

	10-05-2004 23:18									#46
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top stuff sabrewolf!

here are my votes:

1 - b c a. (I agree that 8 ocean tiles are too far - as I mentioned here).
2 - a b. Random could put one or two of us at a disadvantage, and I'm all for keeping things balanced in this game for as long as possible!
3 - a b c. I'd prefer luxs not be so critical for the early game.
4 - b a. Hopefully this would lead to some fun role-playing - trying to trade for that missing resource!
5 - b a c d. 3 happy faces mean we can all get our island nice and productive in time for when we meet each other!
6 - b a c. Not too many, not too few!
7 - b c a. I'm keen for just 2 traits so that they become a big factor in your overall strategy. 3 would turn the game into more about what your civ can't do.
8 - c a b. I'd like to choose a civ based on their UU, and then re-define that civ's attributes.

I'm really looking forward to this game!!

	11-05-2004 02:52									#47
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AGHHH!!!

Too many questions, can I just go with the crowd and go with whatever you guys decide, though I prefer civs to be random for a challenge. I will choose a civ if thats the way we go.

If we are serious about wanting a builder game, which Im all for, should we have a non aggression agreement until ? or something, pick a date or number of turns.

	11-05-2004 02:55									#48
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Moonbars, are you still committed to this game? you havn't posted for quite some time... and we do want to have an efficient game...

CM, so 2b), 2a) and you abstain for the rest?
edit: at a tie you'll have to be the tie-breaker

Last edited by sabrewolf on 11-05-2004 at 03:58

	11-05-2004 22:51									#49
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Ever since I searched for "*.mpp" in google, and hit "i am feeling lucky" rather than "google" search, I have had terrible trouble accessing the net from work (they disabled my account because it finds a site called "Marajuna Policy Project" rather than telling me what I wanted to know - that mpp is ms project files

Hence not been reading poly. If you guys want to do more than one turn a day, lots of quick fire sessions, I need to bow out - can;t garantee I can manage that.

	12-05-2004 01:38									#50
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I just found out that I'm going on a trip this weekend, so I'll be away from friday morning until lunchtime sunday. (All times are GMT)

	14-05-2004 18:16									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Moonbars Ever since I searched for "*.mpp" in google, and hit "i am feeling lucky" rather than "google" search, I have had terrible trouble accessing the net from work (they disabled my account because it finds a site called "Marajuna Policy Project" rather than telling me what I wanted to know - that mpp is ms project files Hence not been reading poly. If you guys want to do more than one turn a day, lots of quick fire sessions, I need to bow out - can;t garantee I can manage that.

as you said in MSN, you're willing to do some in the beginning.

i'd recommend we start with more than 3 settlers (even though the majority (including me) voted for 3) so daily turns don't start off too boring.

	14-05-2004 18:21									#52
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here are the votes:

krill:
1) b, c, a
2) a, b
3) a, b, c
4) a, b
5) b, c, d, a
6) b, a, c
7) a, b, c
8) a, b, c

andydog:
1 - b c a
2 - a b
3 - a b c
4 - b a
5 - b a c d
6 - b a c
7 - b c a
8 - c a b

sabrewolf:
1b, 1c, 1a
2a, 2b
3b, 3c, 3a
4a, 4b
5b, 5c, 5a, 5d
6b, 6a, 6c
7a, 7b, 7c
8a, 8b, 8c

next post will be the summary...

	14-05-2004 18:30									#53
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i presume moonbars and CM won't vote anymore.
so, here's the summary of the votes:

1: geography
option B: everyone on own continents with 3 ocean-tiles in between (at least realistic chance for non-seafarers)

2: civs
option A: decide after geography is defined

3: difficulty level
a: 4 points (2,2,0); b: 4 points (1,1,2); c: 1 point (0,0,1)
with the draw between a and b, a wins because of more "first choice" votes, so:
option A: monarch (2 happy faces)

4: strategic resources
option A: a) everyone has at least one of each on his island

5: luxury resources
option B: everyone guaranteed 3, not more, not less

6: number of starting settlers
option B: 3
i'd like to reevaluate this one

7: traits
option A: chose yourself, so multiple same can come, 3 traits

8: UUs
option A: chose yourself, so multiple same can come

congratulations to krill! you got 100%

	14-05-2004 18:34									#54
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well, it all seems clear, but i'd like to ask for another vote for point 6: number of starting settlers.

i wanted to have three to still have a sort of early-build-up. but as some players may not be able (or willing ) to play too many multiturns-per-day, we imho better immediately start with more.

that's why i'd like to reask the question 6 and additionally add a point D (5 settlers) and E (6 settlers)

6: number of starting settlers:
a) 2
b) 3
c) 4
d) 5
e) 6

	14-05-2004 18:35									#55
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my vote for point 6:

c, d, b, e, a

	15-05-2004 02:24									#56
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5

	15-05-2004 12:22									#57
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I'll go: c(4) d(5) b a e

	17-05-2004 01:14									#58
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krill and moonbars, can ya' vote too?

btw, speaking of starting units: i prefer NOT to have defensive units as huts never pop nasty stuff before the first military units appear!

	17-05-2004 01:24									#59
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I can vote. C, B, D, E, A.

Just to be annoying.

	18-05-2004 19:06									#60
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Okay I’ll carry the ball for a bit. Looks like 4 starting settlers have won the vote. I think we’re now ready to spec the game for Conqueror and choose our civs, traits, and UUs!

How about this for a spec:

Mod Title: “The Race to Eden”
Level: Monarch
No. Players: 5 (Andydog, sabrewolf, Moonbars, Chrisius Maximus and Krill)
Starting Units: 4 starting settlers and 3 starting workers for each player.
Globe:
Standard sized map, 5 continents.
- each player to start on their own separate continent;
- each continent to be of roughly equal size and topography;
- each continent to be separated from other continents by a minimum of 3 ocean tiles;
- each continent to have 3 luxury resources (numbers of each occurrence of the 3 luxuries is up to the discretion of the mod creator);
- each continent to have 1 of each strategic resource;
All other map specifications and are up to the discretion of the mod creator, with a view to creating a reasonably balanced map overall.

Civilisations, traits, and UUs (to be completed)

Andydog: "Prime Minister Nelson of the Kiwis", Agricultural Religious Seafaring, Muskateer and Sipahi

sabrewolf:

Moonbars:

Chrisius Maximus:

Krill: