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MichaeltheGreat
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Apolyton Grand Executioner
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mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:36
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
Also, MrGreat. I put forth the proposition moonths ago when the Iraqi police wouldn't do their jobs, that maybe we should just say screw Iraq's infrastructure.
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You mean when we ran the place (oh, we still do) and dictated if/when Iraqi police were hired, paid, equipped and assigned? Their jobs doing what? Wandering around without US authorization, enforcing non-existent laws (would you prefer Saddam's old ones, or the ones we hadn't yet written for them), not getting paid since we ran and controlled the banks, not taking anyone to jail because there weren't any at the time except for the prison system we ran. Oh, and getting shot by US forces because they couldn't coordinate with US if we didn't authorize them.
Problem is, Tex, that when you invade someone else's country and take over their government, scrap their military, take over their banking system, and decide who gets to do what, and when, where, how and why, you can't really blame the guys you effectively canned for "not doing their jobs."
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Oh, no, you said. Can't do that. Must stay.
You bet. and get whined at by all, up to and including you.
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The alternative was to stay the hell out in the first place, unless and until there was a better reason to invade and more troops and planning involved, instead of the "we can invade you with one hand tied behind our backs" and "the Iraqi people will greet us with open arms" nonsense that characterized the actual plan. Yeah, we could have pulled out at any time, but having got a few hundred troops dead and a couple hundred billion or so down the tubes, pulling out and letting Iraq turn into more of an unstable shithole (on top of all that oil) wouldn't do us a hell of a lot of good, would it now, Tex?
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One thing I'm curious about.
How long did it take you to speak fluently out of both sides of your mouth?
Copy all. Over and out. |
At least I still speak through the correct orifice. 
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:36
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Irrelevent. They were a terrorist group. |
No, it is relevent. The problem is not terrorism per se, it is murder. The Weathermen made a conscious decision not to kill people, to do what they could to avoid it (this was after three of them blew themselves up during a plan to attack a military dance). They said to themselves that at the point when they can make the decision to murder other people, they've given up their ideals. That is very different from most organizations whose goal is specifically to kill people.
By and large, American leftists have been very relectutant to kill, and those that have were generally seriously unhinged. On the other hand, American rightists have been more than willing to kill. The history of terrorism in the U.S. is, by and large, a history of right-wing fanaticism, interested in terrorizing people to keep them in their place. From the KKK to Timothy McVeigh, there is an ubroken line of right-wing, Christian fanatics, who do not value the lives of those to whom they are opposed.
They don't come out of nowhere, but out of an envirinment, especially prevalent in the South and West, that only whites should have rights, that only Christians should have rights, that only Protestants should have rights, that the government is the enemy, etc. In many parts of the country, these are "normal" values.
Just as PLATO blames Arab and Islamic cultures for the actions of AlQaeda, I blame th American South for the Klan, the Aryan Nations, the Brotherhood, and the Militias. If we're going to be consistent in our assault on evil cultures, it would be pretty easy to start here at home.
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MichaeltheGreat
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Apolyton Grand Executioner
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mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:36
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quote:
Originally posted by PLATO
Folks, You still don't get it. Where is a Sudanese, Congolese, or Ugandan proposing death to all who do not believe in their beliefs? Where else is hatred for the west and terrorist tactics taught with the power of religion behind it? Where else do entire regions of governments provide back room support for these methods?
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Zarqawi is a Jordanian, so should we consider the King of Jordan, the nation, and all the Jordanian people enemies of the US?
I'm as much of a "decisive confrontationist" type as anybody when it comes to radical Islam, but methods mean a lot here. It's not going to do us long-term good to act as al Qaeda recruiters ourselves by taking a "nuke the ****ing ragheads, they're all the same" approach to a movement which involves a small number of people (a few thousand at most) out of over a billion moslems.
As far as governments go, instead of worrying too much about theirs, why not worry a bit more about ours? As in, why do we kiss so much Saudi ass? Besides that trillion or so in our investment markets, and their ability to step on the global economy's throat by playing with oil production, that is. We collaborate with a known enemy for economic reasons, and there is simply no dismissing the duplicity and complicity of the Saudi government, nor our lack of interest in confronting them in any way. Iraq hasn't increased our leverage against the Saudis, if anything, it has decreased it, as they see we're stretched thin. Just think, when you're buying gas this summer, who is the real enemy and what are we doing about it?
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The problem is societal. This is what is breeding people capable of doing these kinds of things while invoking God's name. This is what is causing people to fly airplanes into buildings. This is what is causing children to strap bombs on themselves.
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And infidel foreign invaders moving in to "educate" them isn't going to help.
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The leaders who foster this and the people who follow them must be stopped. If they will not listen to reason then they must be destroyed.
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We can disrupt and destroy and limit most of them most of the time, but this is largely a permanent problem.
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If not, the problem will continue to widen...the atrocities will continue to grow. And...yours and my very way of life will change. And not for the better. |
Sorry, but the occasional beheading of some poor guy randomly kidnapped from the streets of one of their countries is a hell of a lot different from them dealing mass carnage within the US or western allies. Spain was hit hard, but by and large, the Spanish government probably felt beforehand (like we seemed to before 9/11) that they weren't a priority target at home.
You can't prevent everyone, everywhere, from doing anything ever. You have to allocate resources intelligently - we're already seeing budget cuts and security relaxation in DHS and it's subordinate agencies, as a result of our deficits and the cost of Iraq.
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Sava
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GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:36
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quote:
As far as governments go, instead of worrying too much about theirs, why not worry a bit more about ours? As in, why do we kiss so much Saudi ass? Besides that trillion or so in our investment markets, and their ability to step on the global economy's throat by playing with oil production, that is. We collaborate with a known enemy for economic reasons, and there is simply no dismissing the duplicity and complicity of the Saudi government, nor our lack of interest in confronting them in any way. Iraq hasn't increased our leverage against the Saudis, if anything, it has decreased it, as they see we're stretched thin. Just think, when you're buying gas this summer, who is the real enemy and what are we doing about it? |
well put 
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