27-06-2004 07:46									#1
	Game Discussion - Turn 2101 onwards Tired of ads?

Here's your first 9 squares so you can start some discussion.

Seems like we're still not allowed to attach directly.

Edit:
Wow that's service, it's fixed already.

Last edited by Kody on 27-06-2004 at 10:54

	27-06-2004 07:48									#2
	Full PM-box? Change here!

All I get a is a big red 'X'.

	27-06-2004 07:56									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Sorry about that I fixed it.

	27-06-2004 07:58									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

crappy start - not a river or special in sight (I just hope that Buster's remembered to prototype the rover chassis for us)

(The podpop will prolly be a monolith, though !!)

	27-06-2004 08:01									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

which begs the question

Do we pop that pod with a Colony pod, or with the Rover?

And, 2) do we let our defensive - and offensive - units get a morale upgrade or 2 from the mindworms before passing them thru any monoliths?

	27-06-2004 08:20									#6
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Spartans have free prototypes. That means if Buster forgot to prototype the rover chassis it's a plus for you. Since it doesn't cost more, but you get an morale upgrade.

Remember to plant base before popping the pod. Otherwise it won't be a monolith.

Buster gave the sort of starts random map generators do. However, he's landformed the map extensively.

	27-06-2004 08:35									#7
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Kody Remember to plant base before popping the pod. Otherwise it won't be a monolith.

Not true.

In a series of 20 quickstarts, 14 had a seedpod beside the 2cp's and the rover, and here are the results of popping with the Colony Pod:

3 produced a monolith, 2 a nut special, 1 a sunny tile, 1 a 25 ec bonus, 1 a 50 ec bonus, 1 a mindworm (!!), 1 a fungus bloom, 1 another Unity Rover, 1 a cloned colony pod (yeah!!) and in 2 I couldn't get the pod 'cos it was in fungus

These seem to be about the same odds of a goody versus baddie effect as popping within a base radius

	27-06-2004 08:50									#8
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: 1 a cloned colony pod (yeah!!)

Is that possible?????

I remember the Hive trying something like that really early before I got involved in the game. So later on when I read that I went to the scenerio editor to see what the chances of that were. I never managed to clone the colony pod....

quote: In a series of 20 quickstarts, 14 had a seedpod beside the 2cp's and the rover, and here are the results of popping with the Colony Pod:

What I mean if you plant a base with one colony pod then pop the pod it seems to always give you a monolith (not well tested). If you don't plant it then it seems to give you more random effects.

	27-06-2004 09:00									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Kody Is that possible?????

well - it just happened on my test run

quote: What I mean if you plant a base with one colony pod then pop the pod it seems to always give you a monolith

I'll give it a try and log these results

G.

	27-06-2004 09:17									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Cool, I'll look back here to see what you came up with.

*goes back to compiling links to make it easier for new players to join*

	27-06-2004 09:24									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

OK - results of test, with the base established and just the CP to move - choice of 2 pods to pop, no appreciable difference between the pods when popped - 15 of each

(Can't attach files here - Kody, you must get Mark to allow file attachments in these private forums - so the .sav is here)

in 30 starts:

nutrients: 9
monolith: 7
minerals: 5
energy: 3
ec's: 2 (2 x 25 and 1 x 75)
AA: 2
Rover: 2

Normally when the start position is poor, you might see a preponderance of nutrient pops, but this was a good position with moist tiles around

(the foil came with the start, so I just put the rover in it to move it away)

	27-06-2004 09:56									#12
	Inflate your Upload Space

I raised the issue with MarkG

	27-06-2004 10:51									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

MarkG said he fixed it. I'm just checking.

Attachment: spartans2101-32df3f54.jpg
This has been downloaded 213 time(s).

	27-06-2004 10:56									#14
	Support Apolyton

Success, it would appear.

	27-06-2004 10:59									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

still a lousy start position !!

(I liked all of the starts I got in my 50 or so tests of podpopping !!!)

	27-06-2004 11:02									#16
	Put an end to popups!

So I vote we pop the pod with a colony pod - the odds are the same that it'll be a monolith as they would be if we established a base first, and who knows, we might get the rogue pop that clones the colony pod!!

(of course, and I don't think I saw it prohibited in the rules, we could disband all 3 units and be magically teleported elsewhere and get both CP's, the rover and a Former)

	27-06-2004 11:04									#17
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

You don't have the worst start position in my opinion. Another team has a slightly worse one (haven't checked more than the first 9 squares though).

	27-06-2004 11:09									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

We have some nuts and some rock, so there is still something we can work with.

	27-06-2004 11:18									#19
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

That rolling moist square to the west, the elevation and the landscape altogether suggest me that there's a coast thereabouts. I think we ought to explore that first, there's probably a good base location there (of course the unity pod is of utmost importance). Thoughts? Or should we just plop down one of the pods right away?

	27-06-2004 11:35									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

It'd be nice if we could see a quad x view, to see where coastlines likely were.

But we can aleways make our first move west with the rover for 2 squares and see what turns up

If we have thoughts of making Sparta Command into any kind of super scince city then we need it to be on the coast or on a river at least (or change headquarters after we are into the game a ways)

And elsewhere we talked about base spacing - we can borrow from the Hive in the last game and set them up willy nilly to begin with until we get formers able to properly pep base sites with sensors for the +25% defense bonus. We can always disband those early base later thru colony podding

	27-06-2004 11:37									#21
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Googlie But we can aleways make our first move west with the rover for 2 squares and see what turns up

'course the crew would be drunk so their reports would be questionable .......

	27-06-2004 11:51									#22
	Remove this text

Hmm, the location does elude me a bit. The pods have landed on a spot nearly 3 kilometres high. That means the coast, if it's down there in the west, will be quite a way from where we are.

That also means that there might be a lot of lush land there waiting for us to farm it in that direction, what with the rainfall being that abundant already on this altitude. And three clicks is pretty good for solar collectors too. In any case, the first time we get our hands on the save, I'll want to see the map grid to check out the topography.

Btw, where did the 10 EC come from?

	27-06-2004 11:54									#23
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I would give you the map grid, but worried about certain side effects. However, now you've got fewer surprises to discuss when your turn comes.

	27-06-2004 11:55									#24
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Don't you always start SMAC off with 10 ECs?

	27-06-2004 11:56									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus Don't you always start SMAC off with 10 ECs?

Oh? I thought only Morgan got the 100 and that's the end of that. You live and learn.

	27-06-2004 11:59									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Kody I would give you the map grid, but worried about certain side effects. However, now you've got fewer surprises to discuss when your turn comes.

Well at least you aren't being a complete coultier and giving us the map grid but with flattened terrain on. Oh and I chcked the ECs, you do get 10 in the beginning. Never picked up on that. Odd.

	27-06-2004 15:42									#27
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Re the discussion what comes out of pods, I did an extensive test myself back when Googlie and I had a discussion about Morganite starting positions etc. I did a whole bunch of restarts, and each time registered the result of the first pod I popped. Just skip to the end of my post for the results.

quote: Large random map, average settings, transcend, all other factions random (so any possible effect of them should be neutered). Gaia: monolith, rover, artifact, minerals, rover, monolith, materials, nutrient, monolith, ogre, Hive: monolith, rover, commlink, artifact, minerals, commlink, artifact, rover, nutrient, monolith UoP: tech, nutrient, monolith, nutrient, foil, monolith, artifact, bloom, nutrient, 75c, Morgan: monolith, rover, energy, monolith, artifact, monolith, monolith, rover, 75c, energy, Sparta: monolith, artifact, 25c, nutrient, minerals, rover, 75c, commlink/nutrients, nutrients, nutrients, Believers: minerals, artifact, artifact, monolith, artifact, monolith, rover, ogre, worm, monolith, Peacekeepers: monolith, energy, 75c, artifact, monolith, nutrient, minerals, monolith, rover, artifact Consciousness: 75c, energy, monolith, monolith, artifact, energy, nutrient, monolith, worm, nutrient Pirates: IoD, 75c, IoD, IoD, 100c, commlink, sonar, IoD, sonar, 75c, start position near monsoon: 4, uranium flats: 3, ruins: 1 Drones: energy/75c, nutrient, commlink, ogre, materials, rover, worm, unit clone, rover, monolith Angels: artifact, nutrient, 25c, rover, 25c, nutrient, nutrient, monolith, monolith, artifact Cult: tech, monolith, 50c, 75c, 50c, materials, launcher, 50c, worm, tech, Caretakers: tech, energy, rover, monolith, 50c, monolith, 25c, energy, artifact, worm, Usurpers: nutrient, foil, energy, minerals, artifact, materials, rover, tech, materials, minerals Total excluding pirates: 130, with two double-goodie pods: monolith: 27 nutrients bonus: 17 artifact: 16 rover: 14 energy bonus: 9 minerals bonus: 7 75 credits: 7 materials: 5 worm: 5 tech: 5 commlink: 4 50 credits: 4 25 credits: 4 ogre: 3 foil: 2 fungal bloom: 1 (that was outside base radius though IIRC) unit clone: 1 spore launcher: 1 132

	27-06-2004 15:58									#28
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Oh btw, now we know that we don't have a river near our starting position, is it ok to continue with the plan to found both our bases on the second turn?

Googlie has suggested to move the CP north on the first turn, so if we want to avoid founding bases on those precious rolling&rainy tiles, it seems our only choice is to move our second CP one tile straight south and found the base there. Is that ok?

This is of course only a preliminary suggestion. Who knows once we get the turn and get a better look of our relief and possible coastlines in our neighbourhood, we might have to change our plans.

	27-06-2004 18:45									#29
	Suffering from ads?

trouble is, if we move a CP north and do pop a monolith, then we have to wait another turn before founding a base.

Maybe delay popping the pod (lest we get a rogue fungus bloom or summat) and just move the CP's respectively north-east and south-west this turn, into the small valleys, and next turn found both bases - then pop the pod?

	27-06-2004 19:54									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Kody You don't have the worst start position in my opinion. Another team has a slightly worse one (haven't checked more than the first 9 squares though).

I've checked the entire map, and IMHO, the start positions are all fair. The first time I saw it I thought one faction possibly had a *slight* disadvantage, so I asked buster to have a look and see what he thought, and he altered it slightly to make it as fair as possible.

You've got a pod and some high, rolling rainy tiles. Sure, no river, but it's hardly a bad start, IMHO. This gives very little away too.