30-06-2004 23:18									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Zeiter I'm actually beginning to lean more towards Goolgie's suggestion of planting both bases on the second turn.

quote: Originally posted by Googlie I'm leaning towrads planting the flag in 2101 with Sparta Command

Cute. Everyone has reversed their previous opinion.

quote: Originally posted by Googlie Battle Ogre II

Are you serious? If only that weren't a writing error: we could probably level a few factions before they even knew what hit them.

Anyway, I tend to agree with Googlie and building Sparta Command first turn too. Then we can pop the pod first turn already, and if it's a resource bonus or monolith, we'll be able to work that square one turn earlier than we would if we planted both bases on the second turn.

quote: If a monolith, move the worker to it (becomes tech in 5, with sliders at 20/10/80), or if a nut, or river + nut, move the worker as well, and in any of these 3 situations, change the production to a colony pod

If we'd pop a monolith, our population could grow in 11 turns, while our CP would be finished in 8 turns IIRC. So in that case I'd personally opt for a rover. In the other situations I agree with directly building a CP though.

quote: If anything else gets popped, change back to a scout or rover

If we had to choose between a scout or rover for our first production now, I'd personally always opt for the rover. Sure, it costs 11 minerals more, meaning we'd finish our CP later. But on the other side a rover can act as a more mobile police unit and will explore and pop pods faster. And I think the faster pod popping will soon pay back the bigger rover cost, eg a unity pod with 50 credits allowing us to hurry the next production item in Sparta Command.

quote: summary: doc flex, then infonets, then plan nets

Don't forget Centauri Ecology first!
Btw, IIRC yesterday I've checked whether the CentEcol->DocFlex->InfoNets->PlaNets was possible, and I think PlaNets wasn't available as a choice for our fourth tech. So this means we'd have to choose another tech in between. Good possibilities seem:
Applied Physics (for a Nonlinear Maths and impact gun beeline)
Industrial Base (for a Inustrial Automation and crawler beeline)
Social Psych (for an Ethical Calculus and population boom beeline)
I guess the choice would depend on our terrain surroundings, Hive hostility/friendliness, etcetera...

	01-07-2004 07:05									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Are you serious? If only that weren't a writing error: we could probably level a few factions before they even knew what hit them.

No typo - it was a Mark II Ogre that popped !!!

	03-07-2004 02:34									#63
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Alright, the first turn is up! Have we come to a final decision? It seems like the majority want the 1st CP planted in 2101, then the 2nd one moved south and planted 2 turns later, while popping the pod with the rover after Sparta Com is built. If no one objects, we can proceed with that course of action and completely stun and intimidate the other factions with our super-fast turn playing - if they see us play the turns quickly consistently, they might get the impression that we really know what we're doing.

...

Or, they could be too busy spamming to even notice. Actually, that's the more likely scenario, but still...

	03-07-2004 04:18									#64
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As Zeiter suggested, I already did the moves a majority seemed to agree about :

• Build Sparta Command where we are.
  
• Change production to a command center.
  
• Pop the northern pod with the unity rover. We got a monolith. I decided not to get a morale upgrade right now, but instead let the rover move one tile further, as we can always get a morale upgrade later, and I thought the extra map info now might be useful to better decide the location of our second base.
  
• I put the Sparta Command worker on the monolith. The base will now grow in 11 turns. A colony pod would be finished in 8 turns - too early. Therefore I set production to a scout rover for the reasons stated a few posts higher:
  

  quote: If we had to choose between a scout or rover for our first production now, I'd personally always opt for the rover. Sure, it costs 11 minerals more, meaning we could finish our first CP there later. But on the other side a rover can act as a more mobile police unit and will explore and pop pods faster. And I think the faster pod popping will soon pay back the bigger rover cost, eg a unity pod with 50 credits allowing us to hurry the next production item (eg a CP) in Sparta Command.

  
  Of course production can still be changed if you want to, as this is only a midturn save.
  
• I set the energy allocations to 30 econ / 10 psych / 60 labs. This way we get 1 credit and 3 labs per year instead of 2 of each.
  
• As the rover discovered a river in the north, I decided not to move the CP south yet. With the new map info, personally I'd suggest to move the second CP one tile north to the monolith. Then next year we could first move the rover down the river course, and depending on the terrain it discovers, move the CP one tile north or west to build a base near the river banks.

Download the midturn save here.

Screenie. Sorry for the hideous base graphics.


If within the hour I get a positive comment to proceed with the course of action suggested above, I'll play the turn already and post it in the turn tracking thread if that's all right. If not, it'll have to be for tomorrow. Unless of course someone else wants to play the rest of the turn when it becomes clear there is a majority for a certain course of action.

	03-07-2004 04:31									#65
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That looks like an excellent place for a base, on the river tile that the rover is currently on. The two bases could then trade on and off working the monolith, as needed. The 2nd base would also get +1 energy in the base square, right off the bat. The river could also be useful in that when the 2nd base produces a CP, the river will speed its movement to the next base site. So, I agree, moving the 2nd CP north seems to be the way to go.

BTW, what shall we name the 2nd city?

	03-07-2004 04:48									#66
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I'm cool with your play, Maniac, I trust your judgement. Just get the turn posted

As for the 2nd base, I think "Santiago's Citadel" would be appropriate. We'll already have another fort, Fort Superiority, so Fort Santiago would be a bit repetetive. Plus "Citadel" is a cool word.

	03-07-2004 05:12									#67
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Okay, turn played.

	03-07-2004 05:20									#68
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Captain Googlie reporting in - I'm in agreement with the decisions made

I see we have the Garland Crater just 4 tiles to the west!! - +1 mineral in all its interior squares. Plus, it prolly means that the river we see runs into a lake, or skirts the crater towards a coast somewhere southwest

We should discuss siting base # 3 somewhere in that vicinity (eg 2 tiles west of Sparta Command)

	03-07-2004 05:34									#69
	Put an end to popups!

Question: Should Santiago's Citadel be founded north of the monolith (on 62:16), on a 2010 meter river square, or 1 tile west of its current position (on 60:18), also a river tile but at an elevation of 1736 meters?

In either case the base will still get +1 energy, but the latter is better if we want to put a solar energy collector on 62:16 (versus on 60:18)'cos it will garner 1 additional energy for being above 2000 meters

A base at 60:18 could still share the monolith with Sparta Command - and would be closer to the crater for getting base #3 or #4 there for the minerals boost

(And, Maniac, as the river wasn't there from the partial grid Kody posted, didn't you create it when you popped the pod?)

	03-07-2004 05:47									#70
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quote: I see we have the Garland Crater just 4 tiles to the west!!

That'll offset our -1 industry easily for a decade or two! I'm hard pressed to think of a more suitable monument to land next to.

	03-07-2004 08:03									#71
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quote: (And, Maniac, as the river wasn't there from the partial grid Kody posted, didn't you create it when you popped the pod?)

The river was just out of visible range before. The pod was just a monolith.

	03-07-2004 08:23									#72
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Aha. I see.

And a follow up to my earlier post re founding Santiagp Citadel on 60:18.

If next turn (2102) we move the CP on to 60:18, and move the rover downriver past the colony pod, we can then see if in 2103, the year when we are to found Santiago Citadel (can't abbreviate it to SC as that could also be Sparta Command), we can maybe move the colony pod downriver a couple of tiles and found the base that same turn, thus getting some better separation between what will surely become two of our largest bases (being the first formed)

We might even be able to get close enough to the crater to get one of those +1 minerals working for us very early on

G.

	03-07-2004 21:19									#73
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Ah yes, we could move the CP two tiles on the river and found it with 1/3 movement point remaining. That's a very good possibility. Next turn we can use the rover to scout along the river to see what that area looks like.

	03-07-2004 21:27									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie we can maybe move the colony pod downriver a couple of tiles and found the base that same turn, thus getting some better separation between what will surely become two of our largest bases (being the first formed)

Sounds great.

---

Btw, I've noticed a few things when looking at the turn:

If you go to the F2 Labs screen, you'll see that there is already one labs accumulated towards our research. Any idea what caused this?

Also we can see the population size of the other human factions. Morganites have zero, Gaians one, and Angels two. I guess this means the Morganites will follow the tactic we discussed earlier: build both bases the second turn, and the Gaians the tactic we're using now. However how did the Angels get a size 2 base? The only three possibilities I see is that 1) he added the second CP to the first base (would be rather unlucrative AFAIK), 2) they started on a river (but the starting positions should be fair), 3) they were extremely lucky and popped a unity pod which happened to run through the square their starting units were on. So what could it be?

	03-07-2004 21:31									#75
	Remove this text

quote: If you go to the F2 Labs screen, you'll see that there is already one labs accumulated towards our research. Any idea what caused this?

Every time you pop a pod you get 1 lab point.

With starting positions. 2 in this case, I think the starting positions weren't completely fair. But Drogue says they're fair so they must be.

	03-07-2004 21:33									#76
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DP

	03-07-2004 21:49									#77
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Hmmmm, I also noticed that we could pop that pod to the north next turn instead of exploring more of the river. The downside is that the rover will only get 1 move (vs. 6 moves along the river) and won't be scouting in the direction of likely future base expansion.

	04-07-2004 01:02									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Kody Every time you pop a pod you get 1 lab point.

Wow didn't know that. You're brilliant Kody.

quote: But Drogue says they're fair so they must be.

Indeed.

quote: Originally posted by Zeiter Hmmmm, I also noticed that we could pop that pod to the north next turn instead of exploring more of the river. The downside is that the rover will only get 1 move (vs. 6 moves along the river) and won't be scouting in the direction of likely future base expansion.

Yeah I've thought of that as well. The downside of popping that pod on a ricky tile could be that we geta windwrm and can't fee. However since before MY 2115 worms are only at half strength, that shouldn't be too much of a problem. An advantage of popping a pod on a rcky tule could be that we have a higher advantage of getting a mineral bonus. At east that's my impression - nt scientifically proven of course...

Anyway, currently there's a rover under prduction in Sparta Command, so even if move that rover down the river, we'll soon have a new rover to pop that pod north.

Srry for the typos, but I don't feel like correcting theM .

	04-07-2004 01:03									#79
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"I live the way I type: fast and with lots of typos."
The post quote I just got. It fits the situation.

Something else:
Here is something to think about while you wait: The Tao doesn't take sides; it gives birth to both wins and losses. The Guru doesn't take sides; she welcomes both hackers and lusers. The Tao is like a stack: the data changes but not the structure. the more you use it, the deeper it becomes; the more you talk of it, the less you understand. Hold on to the root.

	04-07-2004 04:46									#80
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I'd hold off popping that pod north of the monolith until we get a base established that brings it into the base radius.

While it's true that for the first 14 years the mindworms are at 1/3rd strength, we gain nothing but a rover morale upgrade if we do pop a worm and then it butts its head(s) against us

While getting a tech might be useful (Kody - do we know if Buster disabled techs-from-pods?) we can't do anythging with another tech right now, and can't utilize a mineral tile until we get it within a base radius - whereas getting a facilities completion or an Ogre or summat for a base would be a real bonus.

So I'd vote for moving the rover downriver next turn to see what's there, following with the colony pod turn after next (2 tiles, founding the base with 1 MP left, assuming a habitable riverbed)

Then scout north around the Unity seedpod with Sparta Command's new rover for a likely site for base #3 (Sparta Command's eventual Colony Pod)

	04-07-2004 04:50									#81
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Drogue or Method

Can you open the scenario editor and confirm which boxes Buster has flagged under the "Scenario Rules" section.

It should be just this:

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=517_flagcheck.jpg

Thanx in advance

G.

	04-07-2004 06:18									#82
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: An advantage of popping a pod on a rcky tule could be that we have a higher advantage of getting a mineral bonus. At east that's my impression - nt scientifically proven of course...

Nope the resources from pod popping come out in a special grid format. I once was testing pod popping so I made a huge map full of pods and monorails. I was testing what happens when you turn off particular results and then I noticed there was a pattern to how the resources were laid out.

Minerals and energy tend to occur less frequently in the grid than nutrients. I'll need to test it find out the pattern though. Once you pop a energy bonus or a mineral bonus I think you'll be fairly certain of how the grid is laid out and will know which pods can give which resource bonuses.

Actually I think I'll post a picture of it and a quick article in my next newscast.

Stay tuned.

	05-07-2004 00:06									#83
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Wow, I must say that is some beautiful terrain. Look at all those rolling/rainy tiles!

Are we still agreed to move the CP two more tiles down the river, and build it on that flat/moist river square? Then perhaps we should switch its production to a CC, then pop the pod near the new city. It would be great if we got a nutrient bonus.

	05-07-2004 03:40									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Zeiter Wow, I must say that is some beautiful terrain. Look at all those rolling/rainy tiles!

I agree - I take back all those snide comments I made about my scenario-test start sites being better!!

quote: Are we still agreed to move the CP two more tiles down the river, and build it on that flat/moist river square?

That has my vote

quote: Then perhaps we should switch its production to a CC, then pop the pod near the new city. It would be great if we got a nutrient bonus.

I'd be inclined, again, to put a Command Center into production before popping the pod in case we get a facs completion goody (which we couldn't, obviously, get if we had a colony pod a-building). Then pop the pod. We'll have 9 out of the ten boxes filled in any event, so unless we popped a nut special a colony pod would come too quickly, so another rover would be my choice, then a colony pod.

G.

	05-07-2004 06:33									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Also we can see the population size of the other human factions. Morganites have zero, Gaians one, and Angels two.

How can you see that? Isn't the alphax.txt flag set to zero?

G.

edit: - hmm - I reset mine to 1, and now I can see the faction profiles of the other 3 factions. I thought that #RULES was embedded in the game - I guess not (I wonder what other alphax.txt rules we can change to our advantage - maybe set the research rate at 200% of standard? - or maybe 100% offensive bonus for attacking along roads, or mobile units attacking in the open ........... heh heh heh)

(I must scenario test some things)

Just kidding - it would obviously be a cheat to play with different alphax.txt versions - wouldn't it?

Drogue/Method - perhaps you need to establish that all turnplayers are playing with the same alphax.txt

	06-07-2004 03:04									#86
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Santiago Citadel on coordinates (58.18)

quote: Originally posted by Googlie I'd be inclined, again, to put a Command Center into production before popping the pod in case we get a facs completion goody (which we couldn't, obviously, get if we had a colony pod a-building). Then pop the pod.

Does that mean you would prefer to move our rover on (58.20) as soon as possible to the Unity pod location? Or would you first want to explore the two remaining river tiles (56.20) and (57.21) before going to the pod location? In that case though the rover will only have 2/3 movement points left to pop the pod, with thus 1/3 chance that it won't be popped this year. Should that happen, would you want to continue command center production under the hope that we still get a materials pod next year, or would you immediately switch to rover production to prevent a mineral loss?

Edit: Btw guys, do you want to continue using this thread for all turnplay comments and suggestions, or use Googlie's 2101-2120 turn reporting thread? Just asking so I know where to post turn reports.

	06-07-2004 03:35									#87
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I'd be inclined to found SC2, put a CC in production and pop the pod. If we don't get a facs completion we'll likely get some other goody that can be used immediately (like a monolith, nut or min special, Unity Rover, tech, credits, etc)

G.

	06-07-2004 04:20									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie I'd be inclined to found SC2, put a CC in production and pop the pod.

OK, so not exploring (56.20) and (57.21) for now?

**
Btw, what would you all think about hurrying the Sparta Command rover production with 3 minerals at a cost of 7 credits right now? It would mean we'd get the rover one turn earlier. Or should we save our credits for now?

	06-07-2004 05:28									#89
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sorry I'm late.

I support rushing that rover. We could use that to pop pods. The other rover we can either move south or move into the crater.

and I'm okay with the second city site by the way.

	06-07-2004 18:05									#90
	Put an end to popups!

Torn .... torn .... torn ....

The more i look at our position the more I like the option of moving the colony pod its full 3 mp's downriver, and getting to 57:21 to found the base there in 2104, on what is either a lake or a shoreline (and we can use the rover to determine which by some advance exploration)

Last edited by Googlie on 06-07-2004 at 18:16