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Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:37
  Old Post 28-06-2004 21:49 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap


provide a shred of evidence for this fezbot.


Sure thing, GeBot.

http://articles.findarticles.com/p/..._50/ai_66157021

"Despite its failure, however, the Werewolf project had a huge impact, widening the psychological and spiritual gap between Germans and their occupiers. Werewolf killings and intimidation of `collaborators' scared almost everybody, giving German civilians a clear glimpse into the nihilistic heart of Nazism. It was difficult for people working under threat of such violence to devote themselves unreservedly to the initial tasks of reconstruction. Worse still, the Allies and Soviets reacted to the movement with extremely tough controls, curtailing the right of assembly of German civilians. Challenges of any sort were met by collective reprisals -- especially on the part of the Soviets and the French. In a few cases the occupiers even shot hostages and cleared out towns where instances of sabotage occurred. It was standard practice for the Soviets to destroy whole communities if they faced a single act of resistance. In the eastern fringes of the `Greater Reich', now annexed by the Poles and the Czechoslovaks, Werewolf harassment handed the new authorities an excuse to rush the deportations of millions of ethnic Germans to occupied Germany."

The Mad Monk is offline The Mad Monk
Emperor
of Ice Cream
Mar 2000
time: 23:37
  Old Post 28-06-2004 21:50
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quote:
The Werewolves specialised in ambushes and sniping, and took the lives of many Allied and Soviet soldiers and officers -- perhaps even that of the first Soviet commandant of Berlin, General N.E. Berzarin, who was rumoured to have been waylaid in Charlottenburg during an incident in June 1945. Buildings housing Allied and Soviet staffs were favourite targets for Werewolf bombings; an explosion in the Bremen police headquarters, also in June 1945, killed five Americans and thirty-nine Germans. Techniques for harassing the occupiers were given widespread publicity through Werewolf leaflets and radio propaganda, and long after May 1945 the sabotage methods promoted by the Werewolves were still being used against the occupying powers.

Although the Werewolves originally limited themselves to guerrilla warfare with the invading armies, they soon began to undertake scorched-earth measures and vigilante actions against German `collaborators' or `defeatists'. They damaged Germany's economic infrastructure, already battered by Allied bombing and ground fighting, and tried to prevent anything of value from falling into enemy hands. Attempts to blow up factories, power plants or waterworks occasionally provoked melees between Werewolves and desperate German workers trying to save the physical basis of their employment, particularly in the Ruhr and Upper Silesia.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:37
  Old Post 28-06-2004 21:52 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
I could list each member of the Governing Council and post facts about their past... but facts are usually lost on you. Take Allawi for instance... he's a former CIA asset. Take Chalabi... I think we all know how Chalabi manipulated the dopey chickenhawks into believe the US would be welcomed with open arms.


Your head slams harder against the wall. Post evidence for this. Chalabi isn't part of the government and is in some rather serious trouble right now. You are nothing but a left wing conspiracy theorist looking for some non-existent B.S. Not unexpected.

quote:
Just pay attention to the news in Iraq Fezzikins. And I will forgive you for your errors after you see how the violence is getting worse. I guess last week's attacks were just all leftist lies eh? Like Wolfowitz said, all the reporters are just hiding in Baghdad making up rumors, eh?


I'm sorry but you have no concept of what is going on in Iraq. You are nothing but a dolt who wants this to fail and you should go kick yourself out of this thread. You don't watch the news, rather I do. The violence is going to be there for a while longer but those who spawn it will be killed.

The Mad Monk is offline The Mad Monk
Emperor
of Ice Cream
Mar 2000
time: 23:37
  Old Post 28-06-2004 21:52
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quote:
Goebbels especially grasped the possibility that guerrilla war could be a political process as well as a military strategy. It was largely through his influence that the Werwolf assumed something of the aspect of a terrorist organization. Where it could, it tried to prevent individuals and communities from surrendering, and it assassinated civil officials who cooperated with the Allies. Few Germans welcomed these activities, but something else that Goebbels grasped was that terror might serve where popularity was absent. By his estimate, only 10% to 15% of the German population were potential supporters for a truly revolutionary movement. His goal was to use the Werwolf to activate that potential. With the help of the radical elite, the occupiers could be provoked into savage reprisals that would win over the mass of the people to Neo-Nazism, a term that came into use in April 1945.


http://www.command-post.org/oped/2_archives/007763.html

Sound familiar?

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:37
  Old Post 28-06-2004 21:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
Dan Rather has admited that he's a political leftist and that he colors all of his articles with his political ideology. Think of him as a blander version of Moore or Coulter. Does that sound like a reliable source of news to you?


Every single news source is biased one way or another.

I am sure you know that.

Evil Knevil is offline Evil Knevil
Prince
St Andrews, Scotland.
Dec 1999
time: 05:37
  Old Post 28-06-2004 21:58 Visit Evil Knevil's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo
Anarchy can't exist. Not while US/coalition forces are there


So.... Falluja?


quote:
So kiss my behind,


No thanks, I don't like hair.

quote:
and which flag is that in your avatar? Ah yes, Angola.. go move there.


Only when you move to Spain darling

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:37
  Old Post 28-06-2004 21:59 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Evil Knevil


So.... Falluja?


The fighting between Al-Sadr and the US/Coalition has mostly ceased.

quote:
No thanks, I don't like hair.


Don't have any there.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:37
  Old Post 28-06-2004 22:01
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Fez,

Watch out for those personal attacks, 'k?

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:37
  Old Post 28-06-2004 22:03 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Fez,

Watch out for those personal attacks, 'k?


I get mad when people want us or the new government to fail in Iraq. I sometimes find it difficult in controlling my temper when people talk about it. I will try my best... but Sava really has a way of making me angry.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:37
  Old Post 28-06-2004 22:03
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Fezcarlo: some facts about Allawi:

quote:
Why do Iraqis have such a poor opinion of Allawi? Sadoun al-Dulame, executive director of the ICRSS, pointed to one reason: "Every newspaper that has reported about his appointment has mentioned his CIA connection." Although Allawi has sniped at the U.S.-led Coalition in recent months, it's his ties to Langley that seem to have registered with Iraqis. (His organization, the Iraqi National Accord, is funded by the CIA.) "He's a CIA man, like [Ahmed] Chalabi," said Raed Abu Hassan, a Baghdad University political science post-grad. "In this country, CIA connections are political poison." It doesn't help that the Shiite Allawi is also a former Baathist, and a returning exile. Many Iraqis are scornful of politicians who left the country during the Saddam era.
from http://www.time.com/time/world/arti...00.html?cnn=yes

oh wait Time Magazine is just leftist lies right? They are a tinfoil hat conspiracy theory organization that hates Bush.

I can educate you further if you want. Just let me know.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:37
  Old Post 28-06-2004 22:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo


I get mad when people want us or the new government to fail in Iraq. I sometimes find it difficult in controlling my temper when people talk about it. I will try my best... but Sava really has a way of making me angry.
I didn't say I wanted it to fail. I said it probably would fail because Bush is a dope and is setting it up for failure.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:37
  Old Post 28-06-2004 22:04 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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Most reports I have seen shown he has a popular backing, dude. Time? Hah. That's like reading Michael Moore's website. Being brainwashed isn't being educated.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:37
  Old Post 28-06-2004 22:05 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
I didn't say I wanted it to fail. I said it probably would fail because Bush is a dope and is setting it up for failure.


No he is not, and you obviously are wrong on that one.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:37
  Old Post 28-06-2004 22:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo
Most reports I have seen shown he has a popular backing, dude. Time? Hah. That's like reading Michael Moore's website. Being brainwashed isn't being educated.


I get a kick out of you.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:37
  Old Post 28-06-2004 22:07
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to the article and the sad attempt at making a link.

for one, here is the US Army's history of its occupation of Germany: http://www.globalsecurity.org/milit...ex.htm#contents

You can read there about what authorities saw as the threat.

The of course there is the problem of scales- you see, we have 140,000 men in Iraq, in some cases losing temporary control of towns, having to secure long streches of highway.

IN Germany, which was in vastly worse conditions, and in which the occupation forces were in the millions of men total at the start and probalby about half a million in the whole country throughout, if the biggest attack you guys can mention is one that killed 47 people in the multiple years of occupation, well, woop-tee do!

That is the sad fact folks-the occupation of Germany was a project in a scale that makes this one look piddling, yet that occupation went of with much greater peace and far less violence than this one.

Which makes this line of arguement even more pathetic, cause it only shows how stupid an incompetent this admin. is if they could do so much worse than we did dealing with far greater difficulties in Germany.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:37
  Old Post 28-06-2004 22:07 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava


I get a kick out of you.


*wham*

I hope that kick was hard enough..

Cruddy is offline Cruddy
Warlord

Mar 2003
time: 05:37
  Old Post 28-06-2004 22:09 Visit Cruddy's homepage!
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It was quite funny how this news got leaked.

The Iraqi Foreign Minister and Tony Blair were giving a press conference. The IFM casually let out the info that the hand over was taking place in 2 hours.

Blair's blathering reaction, not quite saying no but refusing to confirm - has to be seen to be believed.

This hand over isn't going to change the situation in Iraq soon - but it is one important step on the road to getting our collective butts out of there.

Evil Knevil is offline Evil Knevil
Prince
St Andrews, Scotland.
Dec 1999
time: 05:37
  Old Post 28-06-2004 22:13 Visit Evil Knevil's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo


The fighting between Al-Sadr and the US/Coalition has mostly ceased.


hmmm, my previous response seems to have disappeared.


Like hell the fightings stopped. You just don't hear about it anymore. The city is still under Al-Sadr's control.... remind anyone of anarchic Afghanistan?

The Fascist occupying army destroyed the only effective state in Iraq, and have built nothing in return.

We'll leave the comments about your ass for another day.

The diplomat is offline The diplomat
King
Terre Haute, IN USA
Sep 1999
time: 23:37
  Old Post 28-06-2004 22:15
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Why can't the Left ever be happy about anything?

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:37
  Old Post 28-06-2004 22:16
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Further commentary on that article-the interesting thing, if you read it well, is that the author is making the claim in her book that the "resistance" was such in Germany during the occupation that there was a forestalling of radical social change cause the "werewolves" scare the population and killed the reformers off.

So this is writen in context of trying to prove a theory-ie, if one accept the claim that both post-war german governments were just the old one in a new cloth without the more obvious trappings of National Socialism, that the reason for this was "the resistance"- as opposed, to say, conservatism in the populace, resistance from the reinstated bureaucracy, no intention by the occupiers to enforce radical change at a time they were drifting apart and so forth.

Clearly then an article without a point to make-just a recitation of facts....

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:37
  Old Post 28-06-2004 22:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo
Most reports I have seen shown he has a popular backing, dude. Time? Hah. That's like reading Michael Moore's website. Being brainwashed isn't being educated.
Do you have any evidence to support your claims? It's the general consensus that Allawi is unpopular and a former CIA man. If you have evidence to the contrary... post it.

Despite your laughable assessment of Time, they are a very reputable source. I think a lot of people would trust the accuracy and credibility of Time magazine.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:37
  Old Post 28-06-2004 22:16 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Evil Knevil
The Fascist occupying army destroyed the only effective state in Iraq, and have built nothing in return.


You have so little crediblity. You sound like an Al Qaeda terrorist.

quote:

We'll leave the comments about your ass for another day.


Leave my cute.. off limits.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:37
  Old Post 28-06-2004 22:17
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quote:
Originally posted by The diplomat
Why can't the Left ever be happy about anything?


Oh, we are happy to show the incompetence of this administration in Iraq to everyone who looks.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:37
  Old Post 28-06-2004 22:17 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
Do you have any evidence to support your claims? It's the general consensus that Allawi is unpopular and a former CIA man. If you have evidence to the contrary... post it.


He's pretty popular from what I have heard.

quote:
Despite your laughable assessment of Time, they are a very reputable source. I think a lot of people would trust the accuracy and credibility of Time magazine.


No it isn't... what are you on? Time was hijacked by the left wing years ago. There was even a book out about it.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:37
  Old Post 28-06-2004 22:18 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap


Oh, we are happy to show the incompetence of this administration in Iraq to everyone who looks.


How about the reality.. the incompetence of your own eyes and ears?

Cruddy is offline Cruddy
Warlord

Mar 2003
time: 05:37
  Old Post 28-06-2004 22:19 Visit Cruddy's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by The diplomat
Why can't the Left ever be happy about anything?


Because the right, ie those who are in charge, can't see anything wrong with them being in charge.

It's a love/hate thing. Smug bastards who can't smell the coffee don't have many friends.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:37
  Old Post 28-06-2004 22:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo

No it isn't... what are you on? Time was hijacked by the left wing years ago. There was even a book out about it.


Oh, yes, a BOOK. If its in a book, it must be true! I have this book, by this fellow called Marx....

Oh, I forgot, you read this book by this guy Hitler, and since it's in a BOOK (oh, my, a BOOK!) it must be true!

Sava is offline Sava
King
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Mar 2001
time: 23:37
  Old Post 28-06-2004 22:20
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quote:
Originally posted by The diplomat
Why can't the Left ever be happy about anything?
Because I have high (and probably silly) expectations for the War in Iraq. I want to see a government, supported by the Iraqi people as legitimate, in place. I want to see peace. Bush said Saddam was bad. Well all I want is something in Iraq that is better than what is was like under Saddam. The only way the Iraq War is worth it is if we replace Saddam with something better. And so far, an unpopular, unelected, US appointed group of primarily Iraqi exiles isn't making me happy.

Unlike the right... I give a **** about Iraqi's. I want their lives to be better. And so far, with worsening and more deadly attacks; virtual anarchy, and a nightmarish security scenario (a true American failure to not secure Iraq)... Iraq is not better off (as of yet) than under Saddam. And not only is the current situation bad, but we've spent over $150 billion and nearly a thousand US military lives without much in the way of a return on that investment.

Evil Knevil is offline Evil Knevil
Prince
St Andrews, Scotland.
Dec 1999
time: 05:37
  Old Post 28-06-2004 22:21 Visit Evil Knevil's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo


You have so little crediblity. You sound like an Al Qaeda terrorist.


Oh so that's your brilliant and perceptive response. Jump up and down like a 5 year old saying "terrorist, terrorist, EK's a terrorist!!"

I snort with derision


quote:
Leave my cute.. off limits.


Why not? It's not as if anybody else is ever going to gaze apon it

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
King
Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:37
  Old Post 28-06-2004 22:22 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap


Oh, yes, a BOOK. If its in a book, it must be true! I have this book, by this fellow called Marx....

Oh, I forgot, you read this book by this guy Hitler, and since it's in a BOOK (oh, my, a BOOK!) it must be true!



And if it is in Time Magazine, it must be true also? Gotcha.. you just dug a hole in the ground too deep. And I'm not throwing a ladder.

 
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