28-06-2004 22:23									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Unlike the right... I give a **** about Iraqi's. I want their lives to be better.

With your plans, the whole country would go down the gutter.. so really you don't care.

	28-06-2004 22:23									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo How about the reality.. the incompetence of your own eyes and ears?

Wait, you mean the hundreds of dead GI's
Thousands of Iraqis
Giving up partial control of two towns to the militants
Rolling blackouts due to inability to keep up supply of energy
Multiple kidnappings
That fact this was a small and rushed ceremony...
the prisoner abuse scandal
etc. etc. etc.?

	28-06-2004 22:24									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Sava oh wait Time Magazine is just leftist lies right? They are a tinfoil hat conspiracy theory organization that hates Bush.

You have to remember left and right is relative to one's position on the political spectrum.

If you are all the way to the right, everything would be leftist to you.

	28-06-2004 22:27									#94
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Wait, you mean the hundreds of dead GI's Thousands of Iraqis Giving up partial control of two towns to the militants Rolling blackouts due to inability to keep up supply of energy Multiple kidnappings That fact this was a small and rushed ceremony... the prisoner abuse scandal etc. etc. etc.?

How about the good things that have happened for a change?

The growing oil production
20 universites now operating, 40+ technical insitutions?
Health care facilities that are being reconstructed?
Schools being rebuilt?
Agriculture starting to get it off its feet?

And there are a few more...

And the left doesn't care about Iraqis or the soldiers there.

	28-06-2004 22:27									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo And if it is in Time Magazine, it must be true also? Gotcha.. you just dug a hole in the ground too deep. And I'm not throwing a ladder.

The Fezaverse must be a starnge place really, given that I only commented on your foolish comment and made no comment about anything else.

	28-06-2004 22:28									#96
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I thought this was a brilliant move to mess with the planned "party" on the 30th. Now they will be directly attacking their own government with the next terrorist attack. Watch the popular tide turn in Iraq because now it is getting real personal with no Americans to credibly blame. Also you can expect a real show of force against the insurgents now from the interim government. Sorry for you lefties that there may be some success in Iraq someday. Maybe when it happens you can give the credit to your pal Michael Moore.

	28-06-2004 22:29									#97
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quote: The growing oil production 20 universites now operating, 40+ technical insitutions? Health care facilities that are being reconstructed? Schools being rebuilt? Agriculture starting to get it off its feet? And there are a few more... And the left doesn't care about Iraqis or the soldiers there.

They're repairing the physical infrastructure.... that the invasion and anarchy damaged in the first place! None of this changes the fact that the Iraq state will be a failure.

	28-06-2004 22:30									#98
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Well of course to the left, economic growth is a serious problem, stability is also bad, and an interim government is evil. I just don't get it. Consider this my last response to you guys who think this was a bad idea.

	28-06-2004 22:30									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Evil Knevil They're repairing the physical infrastructure.... that the invasion and anarchy damaged in the first place! None of this changes the fact that the Iraq state will be a failure.

Actually nothing changes the fact you're full of it.

	28-06-2004 22:31									#100
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What I'm trying to say, you monumental idiot, is that in the short term, the economic situation won't make any difference. The interim state is not cohesive enough to last.

	28-06-2004 22:33									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Evil Knevil What I'm trying to say, you monumental idiot, is that in the short term, the economic situation won't make any difference. The interim state is not cohesive enough to last.

It isn't supposed to last, afterall it is an interim government. Elections are going to be called. Additionally, you know nothing about Iraq. And insults won't get you anywhere.. maybe one of the mods can deal with you.

I have had it responding to your vague responses. Go harass and insult somebody else.

	28-06-2004 22:34									#102
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The American hating left is like a gnat. People are trying to work and do a good thing and they sit on the sidelines picking every effort to pieces to satisfy some inner need, I suppose, to say "I told you so". Why don't you know-it alls go lend a hand to the people you constantly condemn for doing what you don't have the guts to do?

	28-06-2004 22:37									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Lincoln The American hating left is like a gnat. People are trying to work and do a good thing and they sit on the sidelines picking every effort to pieces to satisfy some inner need, I suppose, to say "I told you so". Why don't you know-it alls go lend a hand to the people you constantly condemn for doing what you don't have the guts to do?

I love this moronic mentality certain people have. Everyone who disagrees with them is a member of the "American hating left". Get a clue, read a book, and STFU.

	28-06-2004 22:38									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I love this moronic mentality certain people have. Everyone who disagrees with them is a member of the "American hating left". Get a clue, read a book, and STFU.

Again with the insults... I ask the moderators do something about Sava and EK.

	28-06-2004 22:39									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I love this moronic mentality certain people have. Everyone who disagrees with them is a member of the "American hating left". Get a clue, read a book, and STFU.

And everyone who disagrees with you is part of the right-wing religionist brainwashed flock of sheep.

	28-06-2004 22:39									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo It isn't supposed to last, afterall it is an interim government. Elections are going to be called. Additionally, you know nothing about Iraq. And insults won't get you anywhere.. maybe one of the mods can deal with you. I have had it responding to your vague responses. Go harass and insult somebody else.

Will it last till January? Do a bunch of nutters with guns want to wait until then? Do you think that elections will molify the most extreme groups? Do you think this interim state has the power and authority to mobilise opposition and resistance to any uprisings?

I refuse to respond to the stuff like "you're full of it" etc ... consider my previous insult akin to the sound of a head banging off a brick wall

	28-06-2004 22:39									#107
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You leftys are like a mosquitoes who suck the blood of those actually fighting the battles. Get a life that doesn't involve criticising braver ment than yourself.

	28-06-2004 22:41									#108
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No one is a more "eloquent" arguement against the right than certain right leaning posters here, who in the end are usually disavowed by their own side for the insanity of their statements.

As for Lincoln:

The Left currently is in a starge place-we were right when it came to Bush and this war. We knew he would screw it up-and he did. But we also know if iraq goes south we will be much worse of than the day before Bush invaded. Its like being Cassandra.

I want us to succeed in Iraq-but I know we won;t under this keystone cops regime we have right now.

	28-06-2004 22:41									#109
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well unless the debate in this thread goes above a first grade-level... I'm done here. Have fun calling the left "traitors" and "anti-American". Hopefully one day you people will grow up.

	28-06-2004 22:42									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Lincoln You are like a mosquito who sucks the blood of those actually fighting the battles. Get a life that doesn't involve criticising braver ment than yourself.

Since when can we describe the chickenhawks as brave?

	28-06-2004 22:42									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Lincoln The American hating left is like a gnat. People are trying to work and do a good thing and they sit on the sidelines picking every effort to pieces to satisfy some inner need, I suppose, to say "I told you so".

picking to pieces = pointing out serious flaws?

Well I'm so sorry I asked questions. Maybe I should just shut up and let people make what I perceive as mistakes.

quote: Why don't you know-it alls go lend a hand to the people you constantly condemn for doing what you don't have the guts to do?

If anybody in charge actually listened, that would help.

	28-06-2004 22:43									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Evil Knevil What I'm trying to say, you monumental idiot, is that in the short term, the economic situation won't make any difference. The interim state is not cohesive enough to last.

It dosen't have to be -- it just has to last long enough to get through the elections.


And I agree, enough with the personal crap.

	28-06-2004 22:45									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Sava well unless the debate in this thread goes above a first grade-level... I'm done here. Have fun calling the left "traitors" and "anti-American". Hopefully one day you people will grow up.

And have fun calling the right "moronic" and "idiots" who should "read a book". Please don't be hypocritical and recognize your errors.

	28-06-2004 22:48									#114
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You all do the same things that the hippies did to the soldiers fighting in Vietnam. They fight your battles and spill their blood and you undermine thier moral. Why don't you all join the military and see what it is like to actually sacrifice something besides an extra twinkie for lunch?

	28-06-2004 22:48									#115
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk It dosen't have to be -- it just has to last long enough to get through the elections. And I agree, enough with the personal crap.

Read my post after that one

	28-06-2004 22:53									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Lincoln You all do the same things that the hippies did to the soldiers fighting in Vietnam. They fight your battles and spill their blood and you undermine thier moral. Why don't you all join the military and see what it is like to actually sacrifice something besides an extra twinkie for lunch?

Then why don't you get up off your sanctimonious ass and fight yourself? You're obviously commited enough to the cause.

When was it my my battle, or my war? When did I sign away my right to question the running of the occupation?

I'll brb, I'm cooking, but I'll continue this later.

	28-06-2004 22:57									#117
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quote: Originally posted by Lincoln You all do the same things that the hippies did to the soldiers fighting in Vietnam. They fight your battles and spill their blood and you undermine thier moral. Why don't you all join the military and see what it is like to actually sacrifice something besides an extra twinkie for lunch?

Maybe this is difficult for you Lincoln to understand, but Clauswitz was correct- war is an extension of politics by other means. Soldiers don;t make policy. They can only attempt to execute it, IF it is of a military sort. Hence even you the true believer going into the military wpuld make NO DIFFERENCE, if the policy on top is rotten. Soldiers fulfill policy- Good solider paired with bad policy = failure, because soldiers are not in a position to influence policy or fix it magically on the ground.

And on the idea "we undermine their morale"- why not ask Oerdin if his Morale has been undermined? Or that of his colleges? I mean, we do have a soldier in Iraq posting. Go ahead and ask.

But do try to stop the rather childish rant you have gone of in this thread. It does not become you.

	28-06-2004 23:02									#118
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Ever heard the expression "experience is the best teacher"? I am a Vietnam vet. I know what it is like to be second guessed by people who don't have the slightest idea what they are talking about. And I know the damage it does to moral when people constantly pick at the mistakes and refuse to see any success. The left does not want success in Iraq unless it is accomplished by a Democrat. They glory in failure as long as Bush is in charge. Meanwhile brave men die trying to help the people and the left continues to descourage them in their efforts. Also, I am not talking about specific people but the nitpicking left in general. Why not have some patience and see if the efforts actually pay off. Nothing will change overnight.

	28-06-2004 23:09									#119
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Why not join the army Gepap? Maybe you would see both sides then. You must admit that it was real armies that saved the world from Hitler during ww2. The concept cannot be all bad unless you believe that Hitler and his ilk (present day terrorists etc.) can be talkied out of their aggression.

	28-06-2004 23:13									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo And have fun calling the right "moronic" and "idiots" who should "read a book". Please don't be hypocritical and recognize your errors.

Well... judging by the comments of right-wingers on these boards, they are debating with a lack of knowledge. I only wish to encourage an intellectual debate by suggesting someone "Read a book". Maybe if they read more books, they wouldn't be running a few cans short of a six pack.

It's frustration on my part. I offer my opinion on the Iraqi transfer of power. And the response I get is effectively "You hate America".

I then offer facts and information about Allawi and the response is, "Your source is leftists lies."

I'm in fact posting with great restraint. But then Lincoln posts some garbage "the American hating left".

I get angered because I'm attempting to debate in good faith. But I'm not going to sit back and listen to someone say I hate America. Lincoln offers nothing to the debate. His only contribution is "the left hates America".

So Fezcarlo, if you want to debate this... then stick to the facts. If I say Allawi is unpopular and a US-puppet... then post something supporting your point of view. Otherwise, you and Lincoln can take your "the left hates America" garbage, and shove it up your ****ing asses.

About Allawi. He's a former Ba'athist. The more I read about him, the more I don't like him. Allawi ran the Mukhabarat (Iraqi intelligence) office in Europe during the early '70. Is this man right for the job? Should this be the government the US installs in Iraq? IMO, no.

Now if you want to discuss Allawi. POST SOMETHING OF SUBSTANCE. And direct your "the left hates America" comments to a brick wall.