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mart7x5
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Ok, posted, as it is edited now. I hope we will soon have closer relations with Spartans and Gaians, and maybe they both start to cooperate more. This game may be soon something like fight Morgans contra the rest conscious (human) factions. If only to show that money is not all needed to prosper. As I see it now, maybe knowing that Gaians and Spartans do not have the best relations it is our duty to initiate real "Pact of Three"?
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mart7x5
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A very interesting proposal from Spartans. Worth of consideration, I have to think more about it.
quote:
To: IT Mart
While Adapt Econ - at some point - will be an essential technology (as it will be blocking other, more needed techs) we currently do not need it as it is not on our line of research for anything at the present.
We are currently researching Int Int (but after our change to Fundy, we now have a -20% reserach penalty). We also have noted your desire for Ethical Calculus on an unrestricted basis
We are prepared to withdraw our previous prohibition to onward tradimg of Ethical Calculus to the Gaian Union, under the following conditions: We will send Ethical Calculus and Social Psych to the Angels provided that the Angels then switch research to Intellectual Integrity and return that technology to us, and also undertake not to build the Citizens Defense Force. (You would need to receive Social Psych as well as Ethical Calculus in order for Int Int to appear as a technology choice). Alternatively, we could send Ethical Calculus alone should you wish to trade with the Gaians for Social Psych
The quid pro quo would be that Ethical Calculus would be unrestricted so long as the Gaians, in receiving same, also undertook not to build the CDF
In return, we would undertake not to attempt to build the Ascetic Virtues SP
And as a result, no energy credits would need to change hands
Thus:
Sparta >>> Ethical Calculus + Social Psych >>>>> Angels (or Ethical Calculus alone)
Angels >>> Intellectual Integrity >>> Sparta
Might this be of interest to the Data Angels
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mart7x5
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First of all, we can pop boom now. Benefits are very large. It is Spartans that they will have to trust us that we finally give them Int Int. That is also something to consider as a positive. We also help Gaians to pop boom early. That for sure is cooperation making life for Morganities harder. I would take it. We need pop boom sooner.
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mart7x5
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So if we decide to go forward with it, we should ask Gaians about their view - note that Spartans asked us regarding CDF and Gaian declaration of not building it. Thus this message:
code:
To Gaian Union,
We would like to ask what is the status of your response
to recently submitted by us technology trade proposal.
On another issue, we have had quite succesful talks with
the Spartan Federation regarding Ethical Calculus.
Spartans agree to release it under the condition for us and
Gaian Union not to undertake to build Citizen's Defence
Force. Since you have already mentioned that in one of our
correspondence, I presume you would be able to agree on
it. There is also additional benefit to us, Spartans are
willing to not to undertake to build Ascetic Virtues. Thus if
we succeed to acquire the technology allowing Ascetic
Virtues SP, we can decide which faction from two of us
completes this SP. In return we, Angels, would attempt to
research Intellectual Integrity and forward this technology
to Spartan Federation as soon as we research it. We still
need to agree on few details pertaining to this trade, but
overall it seems very beneficial to both of us and possible
to happen very soon.
Thus both our factions would be able to pop boom quite
soon, which will definitely counterbalance Morganic
advantages. It appears that closer cooperation between
three our factions, Gaians, Spartans and Angels is ossible.
We await your reply.
...
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mart7x5
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quote:
Originally posted by FlameFlash
... Sure, it beefs up the Spartans even more for in that final run if we have to go to war with them,...
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I hope to not to have war with especially Spartans as long as possible. This should not be our aim. I do not know what is your view on it, but I would prefer Data Angels to be the last faction to consider to attack as well as the last faction to threaten someone.
Well, for sure if we get on lead position someone might want to hit our potential.
In this regard, I think we should have very good army, but intended to work as kinda warning to others - "if you attack us, it is going to hurt you".
Regarding Spartans. If it is needed to chip a bit Morganities, it is possible they would take main load of it. Then they need to be good on offensive. Sure it is dangerous when they decide to attack us, but because of fear we should not inhibit tech trade. If we not trade, others trade and we are in disadvantage.
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mart7x5
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I will prepare a note. They seem though to have either infiltration on Morganities or Pact???
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mart7x5
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Note to Spartans:
quote:
To Spartan Federation,
We are presently discussing the proposal.
We would like to ask you also about the state of your Maritime Control Center SP. Is this Project intended to be completed by Spartan Federation?
Also, what is the state of Spartan-Morganic diplomatic relations?
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About the note to Gaians, it is not posted yet. Can it go as it is? Any thoughts on it?
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mart7x5
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Response from Gaians:
quote:
Respected Angel members, here is our dilemma.
As you surely must know, these technologies are not worth much and accepting them would have a serious effect on our research cost. This was taken from our debate about the trade:
Benefits of Progenitor Psych:
Aquafarms (useless)
Access to Field Modulation and 3r armor (a little helpful, but we can probe more advanced technologies from Hive)
Benefits of Adaptive Economics:
+1 commerce rating (potentially helpful, but not right now)
Thermocline Transducer (useless)
Tiny chance of getting the Planetary Energy Grid
With Intellectual Integrity, access to Planetary Economics (helpful, but long-term)
To sum it up: PP can be useful only to ensure we get something more useful when probing Yang or popping pods. AE is usefull to us since it would open the door for increased trade incomes and enable us to go for Ascetic Virtues.
We want to trade you Social Psych, so we must ask you a question - could you wire some Energy Credits instead for one of this technologies? Since your plan sounds good, it seems most likely we propose ECs + AE for SP. What do you say?
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We actually can get Social Psych from Spartans, if we agree on their offer. Also Gaians have not replied regarding this trade - we need their assurance that they not build CDF. Alternatively, we just give Int Int to Spartans and trade it with Gaians later, though lack of Gaian assurance regarding CDF would not be very optimistic as for diplomatic relations among 3 our factions.
Anyway, something must be decided so options:
- we take Soc Psych and Eth Calculus from Spartans >>> Gaians are not very happy then, I guess.
- we take Soc Psych and Eth Calculus from Spartans, then gift AE to Gaians. >>> Would they feel offended?
- we trade AE for Soc Psych with Gaians. Do we give them additional energy? We already decided we would help their effort with the Hive. Kinda 50 EC. Anyway, now when there is possibility to get Soc Psych from Spartans, all this stuff is more beneficial to Gaians.
Overall, I would be more concerned about Spartans attacking us at some point - they are made for war. Should we keep Gaians as a very close ally. I think that might be our strategy, but you never know.
Should we tell Gaians we may take Soc Psych from Spartans, what they give us since this is the only way for us to switch to Int Int? Gaians seem not to notice that fact.
And finally - I consider getting Ethical Calculus now as something must. In order to drastically increase our economy and research, plus build more bases to produce more probe teams, military, navy we need pop boom as soon as possible. This way or the other that should happen. If Gaians try to put stop on the Ethical Calculus in order not to benefit Spartans - all 3 our factions loose - only Morganities benefit.
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mart7x5
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I put the following message into Gaian commlink:
quote:
To Gaian Union,
Thank you for your response. Please review the second message, regarding Ethical Calculus. It seems it is presently quite important issue. It sets some long-term plans in motions, but obtaining Ethical Calculus appears very beneficial at this point. The part to decide for the Gaian Union is to agree not to build CDF, while Spartans forefit their right to build Ascetic Virtues, as mentioned. We await your decision, since this will allow us to continue the negotiations with the Spartan Federations.
Of course, the very same turn Data Angels posses the Ethical Calculus technology, it will be transferred to your faction.
IT Mart
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Hercules
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in Tir Na Og
Sep 2002
time: 05:37
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I just noticed Spartans have captured University Base and renamed Arcadia University. It also means Spartans have captured ME.
Last edited by Hercules on 14-12-2004 at 20:12
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mart7x5
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Yes, I posted SP list in 2151-2160. I wonder how much they will stretch their supply lines in the war with Zakharov.
We look like backward faction completely, DA and no real contact with anyone, apart from Hive maybe. Gaians found us, so we do not know where they actually are. No infiltration. We see no real piece of the map. Let's hope it changes soon.
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mart7x5
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The answer from Illuminatus:
quote:
Quote:
Spartans agree to release it under the condition for us and the Gaian Union not to undertake to build the Citizen's Defence Force. Since you have already mentioned that in one of our correspondence, I presume you would be able to agree on it.
We are sorry, we did not thought we answer your question. As you said, this was already made before: according to our last policy decision we will not attempt to build it if Spartans agree not to build AV and release Ethical Calculus. Also, we agree to your plan of researching IntInt for Sparta, if we can receive this technology too.
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I wonder if Gaians mean here that we will just transfer it to them, or trade it. As far as I understand, We do the trade with Spartans, and Gaians receive Ethical Calculus based on trade already made, and for Int Int they should trade something in exchange. Maybe they mean some possible restrictions here from Spartans.
- It looks then like we are in businness. Sorry, just read your note, Hercules...  I will prepare trade agreement with Spartans, but tomorrow - it's quite late here now.
- So what do you think about decision about Ascetic Virtues? Do we agree that Gaians build it? Am I right in this that they wish to build it? Should we ask them?
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mart7x5
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quote:
Originally posted by Hercules
....
Because we have not secured promise from Gaians re CDF .... |
They answered already. Also Spartans agreed for no embargo on Ethicla Calculus in this case. We may then transfer Ethical Calculus as soon as we get it, as our agreement with Gaians is.
Spartans did not mention embargo on CDF. Gaians agreed not to build it, so looks like we have agreement between three our factions on it.
So we communicate to Spartans, that we take Social Psych and Ethical Calculus then - I have to think what to do about our current offer to Gaians. It would be not very polite just to withdrew it after it was offered. They seem not to want Progenitor Psych, but Adaptive Economics + energy. We are kinda a bit short in energy now - needed for network nodes. May they have something else? other than Social Psych? Ask them about it? Alternativelly I would just gift them Adap. Econ. They will probably later want trade Prog Psych anyway - its needed for Planetary Economics. I hope they will not get too much acustomed to our generosity.
There is also another possibility - if they probe hive - it might be good to provide Gaians with techs we have and Gaians do not - that way they probe something we do not have and they might return it to us. How about that?
Gaians say, Adaptive Economics gives +1 commerce level. Is that so? I missed that so far... I think it is not true.
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mart7x5
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quote:
Originally posted by Hercules
Yes looks like we are in business. AV is more useful to us as it counters the -1 police.
Proceed with the deal but lets discuss AV with Gaians. |
I do not want to seem too much pro-Gaian, but we got our Virtual World. it's 3 EC/turn for us for not paying upkeep for Hologram theatres. Gaians have nothing like that so far. And I know Gaians suffer drones also quite well. Maybe let them do it? We might ask them in return to let us build Hunter Seaker Alg. and Cyborg Factory.
Also, I feel we actually took Command Nexus from them and gave it to Sparta.
Unless of course they explicitely tell they do not want to make AV
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mart7x5
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It is now a necessity. And both Spartans and Gaians seem to see it well. Additionally we are something like mediators between them after their relations worsened. I wonder how long this state will last.
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mart7x5
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Have I missed something in it? Please check, if there is lack of some details here:
quote:
To Spartan Federation,
We have discussed your proposal and also contacted the Gaian Union regarding required from them declarations. Gaians agreed for not building Citizen's Defence Force SP. Having their declaration we can continue then with the trade according to your offer. Also we have not traded Social Psych with Gaians, so as you proposed we would need to receive this technology from you also. Summarizing all details:
1. Data Angels and Gaians agree for not undertaking building the Citizen's Defence Force SP.
2. Spartans agree for not undertaking building the Ascetic Virtues SP.
3. Spartan Federation transfers Ethical Calculus and Social Psych to Data Angels at the closest turn.
4. Ethical Calculus will not be charged with embargo regarding its transfer to Gaian Union.
5. Data Angels switch their research effort to Intellectual Integrity and as soon as it is completed transfer it to the Spartan Federation.
Some final comment, as you predicted the research costs among factions after our recent trading quite significantly increased. For this reason we hope to receive the Ethical Calculus as soon as possible, as it is required for us to raise our research output. As we saw, Morganities were able to research a new technology within 6 years, from 2145, when they obtained Progenitor Psych to 2151, when they got Adaptive Economics, according to our analysis. Morganic research output must be tremendous compared to ours then.
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10-12-2004 18:26
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