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mart7x5
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I haven't received any such message. I am going to post it on eventis.
How about that additional gift? Is there an aproval for that? We can still decide what that might be. I just thought about ECs.
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One more thing - there are some new applications/application to our faction
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mart7x5
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I have just sent a note to Chaos Theory. If everything goes ok we gonna do the trade with Spartans in 2148 - this year.
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mart7x5
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I think that the following issue should be also discussed:
If we have Doc. Loyality this turn, should we send it pre-accepted to Spartan Federation or in the negotaiting state. In this last case we do not loose anything, but Spartans will receive Loyality one turn later:
2148 Angels - give Loyality
2148 Sparta - give Flexibility and accept
2149 Angels - accept - finalized
2149 Sparta - finalized
Would we have enough trust for Spartans do send pre-accepted Loyality? My concern is that they might freak out in the middle, like they find out we have Loyality traded not researched. But I doubt it. On the other hand you never know...
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mart7x5
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Not a good news,
2148 came without pre-accepted techs. It appears that Gaians (whoever was doing the turn) did not look into diplomacy maybe. Thus we have neither Loyality or Mobility at the moment.
In this case I am not sure what to tell Spartans now. Seeing how things may be screwed up, I would not recommend to accept their counterproposal, simply because we may finally not have the tech. The following message I wish to put on Gaian commlink - eventis:
quote:
To Gaian Union,
We have received the 2148 turn without the technologies Doctrine Loyality and Doctrine Mobility. In this case the possibility of forwarding Doctrine Flexibility to Gaian Union in 2149 will be delayed one more year or possibly more, if Spartan talks will fail. What is the current status of the Gaian Union position towards the proposed exchange, Doctrine Loyality and Doctrine Mobility for Doctrine Flexibility and Ethical Calculus?
...
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mart7x5
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I am going to ask them that too. Let see what they have to say about the situation now. I have impression that they may have some "mess" around there.
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mart7x5
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A response from Illuminatus:
quote:
Hello respected Angels, I have just returned. I have no idea currently what happened, but according to our presend turn, CT sent you only Doctrine: Mobility, not accepted. What is more puzzling is that he said he is aware of your communications to us ( Yep, I'll send those techs. he said in our turn planning thread yesterday when we informed him of this), and that Lord Aran confirmed this . I believe that proposed technology exchange was agreed by us, since Council rated proposed exchange as positive. I don't see why we would he go against Council wishes, and I do not see why he would break our diplomatic code. I have started investigation about what happened and why these technologies were not forwarded to you, and I will inform you of results as soon as CT goes online again, and explains. Accept my apologies, especially since Council agreed to your proposal. but I currently don't know what happened in my absence.
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So it looks like mess over there. Gaians seem to have various oppinion on some issues. Not good.
I have to rethink the whole thing. I am worried about Spartans, they may finally get discouraged and pull out of the deal. Also, we may finally be forced to forward Doc Loyality pre-accepted, and if Spartans will not forward Flexibility in return than we are fried...
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mart7x5
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I posted a short message:
quote:
Lord Illuminatus,
Thank you for your reply. One turn delay may or may not complicate things. It is difficult to say at this moment. The talks with Spartan Federation we are currently in are not very easy, and I can only hope they will not get discouraged. The value of Doctrine Loyality for Spartan Federation is in a fragile balance for various reasons, therefore we wanted to make the exchange sooner.
IT Mart
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mart7x5
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Yes, I directly asked Gaians if they wanted to trade directly with Spartans some time ago. The answer was that they were just opening the embassy again. Maybe they finally repaired their relations.
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mart7x5
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We actually do not need to explain this much to Spartans. Just talk with them about the trade in 2149. It may work this way. It would be better if Spartans do not learn about mistakes we do in our Gaian diplomacy. I think Spartans may still build CN faster than Hive.
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mart7x5
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Thank you for the message.
So far I will play the turn. However I have to inform you that smax works this way, that although the altered turn is somewhat different, still a message of reload was given.
Playing the turns I usually save few times in the middle to go out of the game and then back in, like:
....-mid1.sav
....-mid2.sav
I hope I will not mark this many times reloads. In normal case these are not reloads.
///////
About diplomacy with Spartans. Lieutenant-Colonel Googlie responded to my inquiry regarding Ethical Calculus:
quote:
To: Data Angels:
Ethical Calculus - indeed a key technology for a faction wishing to boom its population, allowing a change to DEMOCRATIC government and the building of Children's Creches.
Our position is simple. The Junta sees 2 alternatives:
1) We will sell it to the Data Angels on the condition that it is never onward traded to the Gaian Union (including a prohibition on the Data Angels pre-approving a Gaian probe operation for it - and should the Gaians successfully probe it from the Angels, the resulting Vendetta between your factions must last at least five years). The price for option 1) is 200 ec's, cash up front.
(Our social analysts indicate your research cost after acquiring Doc: Mob, SocPsych & Doc: Flex (but not Doc: Loy - it would be unfair to increase prices because you'd research a tech we'd like) will rise to approximately 400 labs. In other words, by buying EthCalc from us for 200 ec's you would save 400 labs. You'd save half the cost in energy! We hope you will acknowledge this is a good deal for you indeed.)
2) We will sell it to the Data Angels on an unrestricted basis - you are free to do with it whatever you want. The price for option 2) is 500 ec's, cash up front.
Lieutenant-Colonel Googlie
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So, maybe we all get  faces now. Let's analyze the situation.
We will not probably be able to pay 500 EC for this tech in order to forward it to Gaians. With 19 EC/turn now, its over 26 turns. With PEG and some crawlers, population increase half of that? 13-14 turns? I think this is beyond what we can afford. I would continue talks with Spartans, maybe we would be able to reduce this price.
Meanwhile, as you pointed Hercules, change the research rate to 40% and have our next tech (we probably switch to Adaptive Economics I presume?) in 2150. From 2150 I would research Ethical Calculus or actualy Social Psych. We get Social Psych from Gaians (for Progenitor Psych or Adaptive Economics or other arrangement) and switch to Ethical Calculus. In case all our efforts to trade little-restricted or unrestricted Eth. Calculus from Spartans fail, or we will not get it from probe actions or Alien Artifact, we may by speeding research by Network Nodes, and alreaady having PEG get finally Ethical Calculus around 2160 (hopefully) Thus we will fulfil our end of the trade. We already benefited from this greatly, let's make effort to return it to Gaians as soon as possible.
Regarding Loyality for Flexibility trade, I will post a proposed note to Spartans below.
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mart7x5
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quote:
To Spartan Federation,
We would like to thank Spartan Federation for completion of our recent technology exchange. We have received Gene Splicing as planned. We hope that both our factions will benefit from the exchanged advances.
Regarding Doctrine Loyality, we would like to inform you that we are finally in possesion of this technology. We agreed within our faction to proceed according to the counterproposal sent by you for exchanging the two technologies: Doctrine Loyality for Doctrine Flexibility. We will send Doctrine Loyality yet in this MY 2148. We ask you for Doctrine Flexibility in return, as planned. We believe that Spartan Federation will be able to build Command Nexus before Chairman Yang would be able to do it. We also hope that this Secret Project will be very helpful for the Spartan Federation should it be attack by the Human Hive.
We thank you for the proposal of the exchange of Ethical Calculus. I have brought it to the attention of our faction members and we presently debate on it.
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Any thoughts? Any proposed changes?
Last edited by mart7x5 on 19-11-2004 at 14:29
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mart7x5
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A short note about Loyality Flexibility trade.
I am going to put Loyality into commlink in the state of negotiations. Spartans will have to put Flexibility and accept in 2148 (this year) we all get it done in 2149. So they instabuild (if they want and can) CN in 2149 and get it completed in 2150.
I wish they were more inclined for releasing Ethical Calculus. They are quite tough in negotiations. Really Spartans...
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mart7x5
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quote:
Originally posted by Snowflake
Did you get a message saying that a warning message will appear next turn? |
Yes, I got. And I remember that happened in one of my other multiplayer games too. I do not know how this feature exactly works, but I think it is not a bug - just it works this way.
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mart7x5
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A message from Googlie. They asked for pre-accepted Doctrine Loyality:
quote:
Posted by Googlie in the Embassy
To: Data Angels
This is great news indeed - and we likewise trust that it heralds a strong bond between our factions.
Might we presume upon you to send the technology on a pre-accepted basis? Our own tecnology matures this same year and we would like to be able to choose our next with Doctrine: loyalty alreadyu in our possession (our analysts tell me that the one we want to start is our "rogue tech" for our research path, but that Doc Loyalty will then put it in play and create a different "rogue tech". I don't fully understand these tech choice limitations, but I gather that some innovative work has been done by - I believe - Method and Rubin in times past)
We, of course, will send Doctrine: Flexibility immediately on return on a likewise pre-accepted basis
Thanking you in anticipation (if that's not too presumptious)
Lieutenant-Colonel Googlie
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mart7x5
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So in this case:
1. We do not trust them, go negotiated as planned and have to accept rather cold response from Spartans.
2. We trust them and maybe in the future they will trade to us Ethical Calculus based on our trust. Provided they will not feel bad about fact that Gaians have Loyality now.
3. As you Hercules pointed in 2140-2150 - we may switch to Flexibility rather than Adaptive Economics. This way we will get possibility to go to Adaptive Economics if they do not play with us.
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mart7x5
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I will contact him on that. Thank you for your answer.
Meanwhile - can some other Angel play the turn still if we are not able to clear this issue?
There will be little to do in this turn.
Alternatively, Snowflake, this is a request for you. Would you be able to play this turn for us?
I will prepare a list of intended stuf to do. Not much in this turn, so you would like loose maybe 5 minutes on that. Approximately.
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mart7x5
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So any available DA member, If you haven't opened 2148, please post your email (spam protect it!), so I can send the 2148 to you.
I will also post it in 2140-2150 thread with list of stuff to do. We have important issues there - accept trade, offer new one for Spartans. Overall there is little to do though.
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17-11-2004 14:58
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