19-10-2004 03:29									#151
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At what price?
We can only offer Biogenetics atm.
Perhaps Biogenetics and a loan?

	20-10-2004 04:33									#152
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I asked the Spartans how much they want for Doc:Flex

	21-10-2004 14:07									#153
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Received from the Spartans:

quote: The Junta has decided to ask you the technology called Industrial Economics in exchange. Note that all of our tech exchanges by default entail a 15 year embargo covering trade to third parties (including the transfer of units with abilities given by said tech to a third faction to reverse engineer the ability). Would you also be interested in negotiating a trade for Ethical Calculus? The going price is 15 credits for 10 mission years. You must also agree to not build Citizen's Defence Force, since Intellectual Integrity will be a derivative of our intellectual property. (I apologize if the Angel faction feels insulted at the term, you may suggest a better one if you find it uncomfortable.) For the Junta, -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Major Kassiopeia, Diplomatic and Foreign Affairs Officer of the Spartan Junta.

15 year embargo is quite a bit I must say. I start to object to this, and see for a lower time.

	21-10-2004 14:18									#154
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My response:

quote: The Data Angels are capable of offering Industrial Economics, that is not a problem. However, the embargo timeframe, while understandable, is too long for making common sense. It is effectively embargoing to exchange with any other party that way while there is still a chance it is a usefull trading technology. We must insist on a substantially shorter embargo rate, and propose 3 years as a reasonable timeframe. IT GeoModder

	21-10-2004 16:54									#155
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Also if our Doc: Mob deal with Gaians goes ahead we will have Doc Flex anyway well within that 15 year period.

150 ecs (15x10) for Ethical Calculus is too high a price especially as we can't really use it effectively for another few years, nor can we afford it.

Hey I thought the Spartans were supposed to be research challenged

	21-10-2004 17:00									#156
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Looks like we have an 'ivory tower' team on this ACDG after all.

And for EthCalc, I won't even comment on that, it's too flagrant.

A deal with the Spartans would only give it us a few years sooner, but if they don't cut down to at least around 5 years embargo I am not prepared to trade. We got a solid exchange deal with the Gaians here, the Spartans are just a possible shortcut atm.

O yes, they will sent us a pré-accepted Peace Treaty. If no objections, I'll accept it.

	21-10-2004 23:38									#157
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The Gaians announce they are negotiating about Doc:Flex as well with the Spartans... I'll let you know more when I do.

	23-10-2004 23:30									#158
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I more or less broke the negotiations about Doc:Flex with the Spartans. Kassi proposed to shorten the embargo time to 9 years, but this is still a bit too high IMO. Some other Spartans (the Lt. Colonels) interfered with some yaddayadda about Intellectual property and stuff.

I countered with some stuff about 'free flow of information'.

	24-10-2004 05:19									#159
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Advise them Morgan is about to build PTS, so while we all negotaite over weeks about techs they will stride ahead.

	24-10-2004 17:08									#160
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ATM the Morgans are weakest next to us (or is it the other way around?). But I'll do.

	26-10-2004 21:17									#161
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From Kassi:

quote: Very well. We know that you are engaging in "free flow of information" with the Gaians, therefore we are rather reluctant from now on to deal with either of you exclusively; we'd rather trade with you as a single entity (with the prices upped accordingly) since the data will be spread like wildfire between the two of you. It's curious that the Gaians decided to wring out Applied Physics out of you for our commlink while selling it to us as well - the Spartans would not do such a thing to a pactmate or a friend. Regardless, we are willing to trade you Gene Splicing for Social Psych - no embargos at all. This is an unfavourable trade to us, but we know that you will receive GS from the Gaians sooner or later, so we kindly ask you to try to give us even a slight show of co-operation and to give us something for it. We were the ones who acquired it and traded it to the Gaians in the first place, after all - you could at least recognize our merit in its discovery and reimbuse us accordingly. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Major Kassiopeia, Diplomatic and Foreign Affairs Officer of the Spartan Junta.

I am not sure this is whether an attempt to find out what sort of beeline we're following, or a genuine trade proposal. I've answered with a counter proposal tho. See below.

quote: Regarding the previous technology exchange negotiations: The Commerce Ops Centre had decided that the price asked by the Spartans was too high seen in light of other Angel' possibilities of acquiring that particular technology in the short term. There is no ill will involved. As for the current proposal, I cannot assure 100 % backup by the Commerce Ops at this moment, but wouldn't seen in light of recent 'disciplinary' happenings within the Spartan command structure be better to acquire Biogenetics in exchange for Gene Splicing? I am pretty sure disciplinary measures are better performed in the Rec Tanks then in the Rec Commons.

	26-10-2004 21:35									#162
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I know I'm confused with what they're actually wanting...

	26-10-2004 23:57									#163
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FF, you're alive!!!

	27-10-2004 18:48									#164
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Yep... I can post at work again... doesn't mean I get to play my PBEM turns . But at least I get my 'poly fix.

	01-11-2004 18:39									#165
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The Spartans would agree with a trade of Biogenetics for Gene Splicing.

Do we accept?

	01-11-2004 19:36									#166
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I'm fine with that, especially if they continue to not have any embargo matters on it.

	02-11-2004 04:23									#167
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Yes definitely.

	06-11-2004 23:26									#168
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From the Gaians:

quote: My dear infotrader GeoModder, I have some strange news. As you probably know, we got Doc: Mobility and Gene Splicing in 2142 and agreed on a five year embargo for it. Now the Spartans have suddenly hailed us to notify us that the embargo lasts till 2148. , for no apparent reason. Unless they are trying to mess up our beeline towards Flexibility. Will the Angels finish research before that? If you won't finish research before that, I would prefer that we do not try to point them out basic math for the tech embargo. If you will finish research in 2147., we will point them out how long does five year embargo last and send you Mobility next turn. Also, if Angels have no preference for their following tech to research, we would like to offer you a beeline that will be very useful to both of us. Regards, Lord Illuminatus

I'll notify him from the (upcoming) change of InfoTrader, and will tell him it doesn't matter that the 'embargo' is increased with a year.

Also, for Mart, don't forget to notify the Gaians we have Gene Splicing when we have it.

	06-11-2004 23:50									#169
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I've sent this back to Illu...

quote: Hello again, Lord Illuminatus! All goes well I may hope? We do not worry for the embargo time increase of a year, our research is going rather slow. Our new Sinder, Mart, plans on sending an tech update next turn when we know for sure how our administrative changes will inflict this. Also, within the next Planetyear or two, I will start on a personal quest somewhere on Planet, so it might be better to forward future diplomatic posts to InfoTrader Mart, by address Anarchism Alley 7x5, Rock-Paper-Scissors, Planet. Sincerely, and Gaia's Speed IT GeoModder

Sorry if I got the address a bit wrong, Mart...

	07-11-2004 00:21									#170
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Whoops he beat me to it. Well no w Illu really knows to PM mart for a while

	07-11-2004 06:46									#171
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Makahlua,
If you wish, you can take the Spartan or Gaian Diplomacy Office. I introduced myself on the Angel-Spartan forum already, but in any turn you want jump in and take over.

Geo,
Just a note of appreciation for all the diplomacy you conducted so far.

	08-11-2004 19:56									#172
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Amen to that!

	09-11-2004 07:23									#173
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There is an important proposal from Spartan Federation:

posted by Major Kassiopeia:

quote: The Maniac Manifesto - Fusion Power by 2160 "The Maniac Manifesto" is a plan for a joint Venture of the Data Angels, the Gaian Union and the Spartan Federation. It is an effort to acquire the following prerequisite technologies for Fusion Power: - Superconductor - Pre-Sentient Algorithhms - Advanced Military Algorithms - Cyberethics - Intellectual Integrity - Optical Computers - Adaptive Doctrine - Polymorphic Software And then finally: - Fusion Power This endeavour will require open, direct and frank co-operation between our three factions, with extensive research leapfrogging. The Junta believes that it is possible and conceivable, given the trust and integrity we have observed both in the Gaian and Datatech factions. The reason for this rather bold and open proposal is the fact that the Morganite faction is spiralling out of control. It has constructed Planetary Transit System and is in the process of effectively doubling or even tripling its population by abandoning and rebuilding bases to gain the boon the PTS gives. We can all attest to the fact that the Morganites are a force to be reckoned with, and the Spartans are willing to give up their slight lead in the tech race to level the playing field with the Morganites. I have appointed the Spartan Chief of Administration, Lieutenant Colonel Googlie, to act as a special envoy on this matter: he will be conducting official diplomacy by my side, as we feel that one person alone can not organize this extraordinary project between three separate factions. Yours sincerely, and awaiting for your response, Major Kassiopeia, Senior Diplomatic Officer of the Junta of the Spartan Federation. Major Kassiopeia, Diplomatic and Foreign Affairs Officer of the Spartan Junta.

posted by Lieutenant-Colonel Googlie:

quote: To further elaborate: Fusion has 2 prerequisites: Superconductor (string #1) and Pre Sentient Algorithms (string#2) Yang will have researched Superconductor in 2154, so that technology can be "lifted" any time therafter PSA needs Advanced Military Algorithms and Cyberethics AMA needs Optical Computers (Yang has that) and Adaptive Doctrine, which in turn needs Polymorphic Software (Yang has that) and Doctrine Flexibility (Sparta has that) So for the first string, we need: 1 probe action to extract Polysoft from Yang and then one of us researches Adaptive Doctrine 1 probe action to extract Opticals, then with AdaptDoc, research Advanced Military Algorithms, then wait for string # 2 to catch up Cyberethics needs Planetary Networks (we all have that) and Intellectual Integrity, which needs Ethical Calculus (Sparta has that) and Doctrine Loyalty (can have next turn) So the second string needs: 1 of us to research Int Int, then pass the baton to another who'll change to Cyberethics Then AMA and Cyberethics get passed to the the team that will research Pre Sentient Algorithms, which, when completed, goes to the team that has received the probe fruits of Superconductor, who changes to Fusion Power Thus in 14 years we are researching 6 techs among 3 factions (and 1 or more of those techs may be extractable from the Uni or PK's through probe action or trade). With leapfrogging, it is attainable (even without assuming that the Gaian Union and Data Angels are able to maintain a faster research rate than the Spartan Federation) How about it? Lieutenant-Colonel Googlie Commanding Officer, Spartan Engineering Corps; Commanding Officer, Spartan Special Forces

What do you think about it?

	09-11-2004 07:37									#174
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Well, it's for sure a necessity to team up against the Morgans...
It will bring us (and others of course) up to speed quite fast.
Don't have enough insight in this research stuff to see if it is feasable or not, so I have to let that for the people who know.

The only thing we need to keep in mind is that we want adapecon for the PEG.

	09-11-2004 07:47									#175
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We have kinda dilema now. We cannot have both - research Adaptive Economics and follow "Maniac Manifesto".
However, if the manifesto is going to give us that many technologies - Ethical Calculus, Loyality, that may be worth it. We could get PEG later, though there is a great chance someone else will grab it.

	09-11-2004 15:50									#176
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It is indeed possible and probably necessary that we cooperate in this venture.

Secondly when we acquire Doc Flex, if we start building some probe foils, we can steal tech from the PKs and Uni while still following route to fusion.

Thirdly, if we get these other techs then we can cash in our AA.

Fourthly, I have noticed when playing the DA's that pod popping produces more AA's than would normally be the case (when AAs allowed). Or is that wishful thinking.?

Fifthly, It is a good point you raise and as well as PEG we might wish to stake a claim for HSA to counter our probe bug. In brief maybe we should discuss the share of upcoming future SP's. MCC for example.

I would not let the possible discussion on SPs halt our general agreement to the idea.

	09-11-2004 20:45									#177
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I like it... though there needs to be some agreement as to first come first served on any of the SPs as opposed to doleing them out.

I also agree with Herc on the probe foil idea. Posit that to the other factions as a decent way for each of us to probe Yang. After all, we don't want, as a by-product of this agreement, to be the only ones probing Yang and thereby have him just focusing on us as far as war goes.

	09-11-2004 23:42									#178
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Just received this from Sparta Command:

quote: Geomodder: With Kassiopeia's blessing, I'm sending this 3 ways - here, by 'Poly PM and via the Embassy, as we have just under 12 hours left with the turn. The Maniac Manifesto is dead, killed by the Gaians (Can you believe that they, getting Soc Psych next year, balked at getting Soc Psych from us and changing imemdiately so that they'd get Doc Mobility next year? They wanted, in addition, either Secrets, or Ethical Calculus, or 200 ec's, etc. Why couldn't they see that it was a great deal for both of us - and prolly you as well since it would have kick-started the Maniac plan) In any event, it's dead. But that needn't prohibit the Angels and the Spartans engaing in some leapfrogging. Through judicious trading, stealing and self-researching, we have a slew of techs that the Angels lack (and you prolly have some that we lack as well) Crucial to us is Doctrine Loyalty, as in our opinion Buster has made the Hive so strong that if they get the Command Nexus it's prolly game over for a couple of the factions (we believe that we and Morgan will survive - but, for instance, Yang is currently building no fewer than 16 impact-weaponed units - if he gets the CN (he completes in 9 years), then these will have a +2 morale and be almost undefeatable) And while it would be OK for either you or the Gaians to build the CN, we believe our role in this game is to use our superior might to neutralize - and take out - the Hive at some point. Rather we had Commando units against his Disciplined than our Hardened against his Elites. We don't know what you are curremntly researching, but if we were to pass to you Social Psych and Doctrine Mobility, would you be able to chabnge (soon) to Doc Loyalty and pass that to us? Beyond that, we could foresee a fruitfal leapfrogging effort that would see us jointly getting to SFF and Air Power, Env Econ and PSA (for your free Covert Ops Centers) Your thoughts and those of your colleagues? Googlie

I respond to him that we received this, and in general liked the idea of leapfrogging, but further discussion is needed.

Btw, FlameFlash, bot Spartans and Gaians already infiltrated and in case of the Gaians extracted technology from the Hive for sure.

	10-11-2004 01:15									#179
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It is very tempting for Soc. Psy. would be great to have in my view and research wise we would get 3 good techs within a 5 year period.

With the Psy we could delay my wants for getting a terraformer to make forests.

My concern would be backlash to any existing verbal/non-verbal agrements we may have with other factions. I would not want to get the reputation of stabing factions in the back.

Boiled down it comes to a yes from me as long as the concern is unwaranted.

	10-11-2004 05:31									#180
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Disappointing but let's get the Gaian's take on this before we decide.

The Spartans righly are very keen tp getto elite status.

Any deal should ask that we get transferred as soon as practical an elite or their best weaponed attack unit.