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sabrewolf is offline sabrewolf

Emperor
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Jun 2002
time: 06:36
  Old Post 12-08-2004 01:58 Visit sabrewolf<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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and here the image at the end of my turn (painfully redlined AC army, huh?)

speaking of AC: i've got 3 more going through persian lands. unfortunatly, persian workers and archers are often blocking the way, so i can't move at ideal speed

but once they get through, i can add them to the 2 armies and they'll have the stats 5,3,3... an AU mod cavalry...


so, what is andy's next move going to be?
i presume he's move his units in direction of knossos. as i can't get enough defence there in time, he would take it back without problems. but in that case, i'd gift it to the persians to get them back into war against him.

however, if he should do that move, he would bind 4 units in a distant region. units that he would need back in the rest of his empire...

on a side note: invention is invented and next, gunpowder is being researched at 80% (economy breaking even, ETA 10 turns).

i now think i know why not much has changed on the front of research: they're all probably researching the "upper" part of the tree... education, printing press, etc.
but now, everybody except the backward cathagians have got theology...


i'll keep you guys posted.

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Solomwi is offline Solomwi

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Don King of the Apolyton HLA Movement
Dec 2002
time: 23:36
  Old Post 12-08-2004 02:55
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I presume that's a 3xAC army. Get him into the mountains to heal and he's a veteran hoplite, effectively. Think about how reticent you'd be to attack a vet hoplite fortified on a mountain.

Also, are those side by side volcanoes I see, or is it just a graphics trick?

vmxa1 is offline vmxa1
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Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:36
  Old Post 12-08-2004 04:02
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With the movemment of an AC army you can move a couple of tiles away and fort on a mountain. Then you should have at least two turns to heal.

monkeyman is offline monkeyman
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Sep 2001
time: 23:36
  Old Post 12-08-2004 06:13
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Holy crap! Just wanted to chime in and say how much fun this was to read! Keep it up!

--mm

sabrewolf is offline sabrewolf

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  Old Post 12-08-2004 14:36 Visit sabrewolf<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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solomwi:
yes, it's the 3xAC army. the other one is a 2xAC army (at the time i didn't have enough ACs in the carthage region (2 up north against the germanics) so i sent over 1 smaller force. unfortunatly, the temporary persian war delayed my efforts so i left the non-loaded ACs leader-hunt against persia.

vmxa1:
with no imminent danger, i could leave the army in the desert. but i'm withdrawing them back to knossos to fill them with 3 more ACs within the next 3 turns. that would give me two 4x AC armies with enough punch to punch through 2 vet hoplites per turn

monkeyman:
thanks

anyway, he's what i built overnight. this should make things more interesting the the upcoming AI wars

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sabrewolf is offline sabrewolf

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  Old Post 12-08-2004 14:43 Visit sabrewolf<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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here's the current power graph.

greece didn't lose a lot of their power by losing these 2 cities and the total of 4 military units and 3 workers. so i'm expecting to get some fierce resistance for the rest of the greek empire.

corinth is my logical next target, but i'll have to do that more systematically: pillage the roads leading to it so he can't counterattack (except with fairly inefficient horses) and do typical cavalry raid tactics: enter the lands, destroy somethign, exit the lands.

btw: i'm sending through 2 legionaries to the persian-greek chokepoint to block any persia settlers. trying to get through. this is all unclaimed territory and there are some nice things like gems and more incense and spices.

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Arrian is offline Arrian
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Jul 2001
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  Old Post 12-08-2004 17:28
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That's just a massive power gap. I don't think you will have much trouble nailing this one down.

-Arrian

sabrewolf is offline sabrewolf

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  Old Post 13-08-2004 03:59 Visit sabrewolf<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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anno domini 290

well, i'm behind in the upper tech branch and it's time to get it. but i'm not willing to give engineering yet. i first want to ensure getting leo's... even if i risk losing being first to sell engineering.

and as i've also seen in the foreign advisor screen that andy has a deal with both egypt and babylon (where i presume he's getting gpt for theology which he brokered around), i decided to get egypt and babylon into the war against him... even if it's just to make him spread his hoplite to both fronts.

as you can see in the attached image, i'm paying 13gpt, gems, iron in return for theology and both their alliances. and with a bit of luck, andy will buy them OUT of war when they accept negotiations again and i'll save this money and mainly the resources.

the cost of this operation: losing 1 turn towards gunpowder... for theology. not bad, uh?

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sabrewolf is offline sabrewolf

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  Old Post 13-08-2004 04:17 Visit sabrewolf<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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dp

sabrewolf is offline sabrewolf

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meanwhile, i'm trying to get my reinforcements to knossos. unfortunatly, persia forces are blocking the way as a archer per turn is awfully annoying. also next turn i won't be able to get past that chokepoint. but now i've also got my legionaries and medinfs in place and as soon as the passage is free, they will block and never let those annoying persians through again

btw: i have no idea where the persian army is going to. so far about 6 horsemen and 6 archers have been spotted and all are heading towards the greek-egyptian-babylonian border. maybe they are planning something similar as they planned when trying to get my iron town.

oh well... delaying my armies by 2 resp. 4 turns...

next image: victory status screen. doesn't really matter a lot, because most victory types are forbidden (domination, coonquest) or virtually impossible (diplomatic, cultural). so that leaves me with histographic and spacerace victory
(that is of course, if andy doesn't turn things around! if he gets lucky and makes 2 (not more because he hasn't got 12 cities) medinf/hoplite or even knight armies, then my life could get a bit difficult. but even then, i'm quite optimistic: i can always create a 4xmusketman army (defence 8 !!!) )

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sabrewolf is offline sabrewolf

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  Old Post 13-08-2004 04:19 Visit sabrewolf<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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here at last my F1 and F2 screens.

as you can see, i've got 4 own luxuries (dye, ivory, silks, gems) and am importing furs (from the celts)
and in 2 turns, my incense will be connected... that gives me 6 luxuries!

once i get knights, i'm thinking of harassing the celts, cutting off their iron and horses and grabbing the 2 furs they have got. i'll also go annoying other civs and taking their luxuries. the germans for example don't really need 3 wines, don't they? so i'll eventually settle right beside berlin, culture rush everything (even if it should flip, i'd be allowed to reconquer the city). and i'll definatly claim the 3 spice sources in the greek jungle. that's in fact the first city i'll place over there!

once i'm in control of 8 luxuries... that's 20 happy faces per big city

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sabrewolf is offline sabrewolf

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  Old Post 13-08-2004 04:35 Visit sabrewolf<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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now another question:

do you think i can start the next DAR? maybe 20 tiles or so are missing...

can you spies tell me, if alexman, nbarclay and theseus new every single tile? if so, i'll open up a (very short) 2nd DAR

here's the enlarged minimap

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vmxa1 is offline vmxa1
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Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:36
  Old Post 13-08-2004 06:26
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Close call. Alex has about the same with no black area in the center.

I don't see the problem as no advantage will be gained by going on to Dar2.

There are not very many screens with mini maps and few of local land.

nbarclay is offline nbarclay
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Dec 1999
time: 23:36
  Old Post 13-08-2004 11:07
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The time to start writing the next DAR is when you either discover Gunpowder or discover an island. The "uncover the entire pangea" criterion is a prerequisite for reading other people's DAR 1's, not for starting your own DAR 2.

And considering that important Greek resources might be hidden in the black area of the map, it's not safe to start reading other people's DAR 1's yet.

sabrewolf is offline sabrewolf

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  Old Post 13-08-2004 13:44 Visit sabrewolf<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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ah, now i get it, thanks guys

ok, i'll start a new DAR thread as soon as i get gunpowder (ETA 7 turns, as you can see above).


but i don't see why i won't be able to read other roman's DARs. they won't be unveiling gunpowder (as they'd start a new thread then anyway).
and to be honest... potential secondary greek iron and horse resources don't worry me too much for their primary source is so far north, that they'll be the last cities i'll take anyway. nothing else will really influence my game.

as you can see, i'm getting twichy and nervous to at last see other people's games and strategies! reading DARs and AARs is one of my favourite things about civ3

sabrewolf is offline sabrewolf

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  Old Post 13-08-2004 14:58 Visit sabrewolf<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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300 AD

"optimus maximus, caesar, abemos problemam!"
(latin for: "great caesar, we have a problem!")

villagers from the hills of knossos came running to the roman proconsul in panic, for they had discovered a small but powerful force of greek soldiers marching towards knossos!

caesar had suspected this to happen, but after several years of peace from the greek military, he thought that they had withdrawn to train and upgrade the simple swordsmen to the more contemporary attacking units of infantries... unit technology which alexander himself developed and which had certain advantages towards the roman legionaries!


so caesar sent all the gold in rome's vault to knossos to recruit some rome-loyal locals to form a band of modern archers - longbowmen - to have an additional chance against the greek surprise force!

if all went well, the roman armies could each kill 1 group of hoplites, the longbowmen could kill or at least severely weaken one of the swordsmen and then the 3rd and last swordsman would be for the gods to deal with! if the armies hadn't lost too many soldiers in the initial fights, maybe they could engage the swordsmen a second time.

alexander must know that this is his last chance! within the next 10 years, 3 greek ancient cavalries will be in knossos and another 10 years later, they will have joined the army to a crusade the greek people will remember as their humiliating defeat! so it would be foolish of alexander NOT to engage now, even if he risks the lives of some brave soldiers.

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sabrewolf is offline sabrewolf

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  Old Post 13-08-2004 15:06 Visit sabrewolf<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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caesar didn't initially didn't want to bribe xerxes, the persian into war against greece. he had much preferred to do this on his own because he didn't like the thought of even more persian soldiers blocking the way of roman ones.

but persia had some horsemen and some archers in the mountains north-east of knossos and caesar didn't want to risk alexander bringing them into war against rome. so he promised xerxes 8 boxes of gold every 10 years and gave xerxes' wife some silks to make cloths cover up their hairy faces and chests). then, xerxes was willing to join in the crusade with egypt, babylon and rome against the annoying greek philosophers...

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sabrewolf is offline sabrewolf

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  Old Post 13-08-2004 15:29 Visit sabrewolf<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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a fact that was not mentionned in the chronicles was that persia had impressed caesar with its impressive knowledge of a lot of things. xerxes called it "education" and was at that time the only man to rule a nation with universities!

caesar knew that persia would have to be controlled to not get too far ahead in terms of technology and decided to "limit" persian successes as soon as their mutual contract against greece.

to still get units saftely past xerxes, caesar began to change the strategy of the mediterranian cities and ordered them to build harbours and galleys.

nbarclay is offline nbarclay
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  Old Post 13-08-2004 17:43
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quote:
Originally posted by sabrewolf

but i don't see why i won't be able to read other roman's DARs. they won't be unveiling gunpowder (as they'd start a new thread then anyway).
and to be honest... potential secondary greek iron and horse resources don't worry me too much for their primary source is so far north, that they'll be the last cities i'll take anyway. nothing else will really influence my game.


How about luxury resources? Is it possible that knowing for sure about their presence or absence could affect your thinking if another Roman player happened to uncover some of those tiles?

On the other hand, you might send your opponent a screenshot of what you know about Greek lands and ask him whether he'd mind if you go ahead and start reading other players' Roman DAR 1's. If he says yes, no one else has any reason to object.

sabrewolf is offline sabrewolf

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  Old Post 13-08-2004 18:11 Visit sabrewolf<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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ok, you convinced me

and as gunpowder has been delayed by yet another turn because of the longbowman-rushing (now: ~7 turns), we might even know more of the greek lands by then.

btw: i've got an elite legionary reaching the northern border of greece soon. alone, he has no chance of survival, but he may be good for making andy a bit more nervous (as addition to the egyptian war chariots, and soon medinfs (remember: they are recieving iron for the alliance))

maybe he'll even surive to pillage the iron source?

sabrewolf is offline sabrewolf

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  Old Post 14-08-2004 00:17 Visit sabrewolf<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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the chronicles of rome - the year 310

as caesar had expected, alexander sent in his troops to engage. and as logic demanded, alex placed slid his units past the persian archers and horsemen and therefore approached knossos from the west.

one of caesar's armies was still severely wounded and of 4 of 13 companies were ready to fight. and the other army was still in the mountains above knossos and would only be able to engage once.

1st battle:
so he sent forth his freshly recruited (but still veteran) band of longbowmen to engange the veteran greek hoplites. the inexperienced boys got killed to the last one of them, but they managed to kill most of the hoplites too.

may the gods take care of their souls. and may they take care of the parents so we don't get sued!

2nd battle:
next, caesar used another of his cunning tactics. he sent the wounded soldiers of the first army to into persian lands, where they imediately joined forces with some more elite ancient cavalry (see image). strengthened, they moved back into knossos and attacked the less experienced hoplites who fell to the swords of the huge roman cavalry army.

3rd battle:
the other, smaller but fresher army, engaged the veteran greek swordsmen in the hills and killed every single one of them taking only minor damages.

but there was still a group of greek regular swordsmen roaming the hills outside of knossos. although our armies should be safe in the shelter of the city, caesar didn't like the thought of them being there. but none of the roman attacking forces had any more energy and time to engage the greeks another time.

4th battle:
that was, when nero, a young spearman officer approached the proconsul and offered that his inexperienced troops could try to delay the swordsmen and maybe ever injur and weaken them so they couldn't counterattack. the proconsul and caesar agreed, knowing the risk of this mission: namely if the inexperienced spearmen should shamefully fail and the greeks would gain experience.
but as usual, the roman gods help the brave. nero's troops kiled every single one of the greeks, gained important experience and got promoted!


having mercy on the greeks, caesar left the few surviving greek hoplites (the only greeks ever to survive a battle against rome!) to tell their masters that caesar is ready and will liberate them from their uncivilized form of republic!

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sabrewolf is offline sabrewolf

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  Old Post 16-08-2004 15:16 Visit sabrewolf<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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i havn't given an update for a while, because nothing interesting happened.
after the destruction of the greek invasion, i cleaned up the suriving hoplite, killed some barbarians and brought in the reinforcements into knossos.

now it's 350ad and the main action has started.

once again, my armies came from andy's fog-of-war to prevent him having much time for preparation (being the 2nd player, he can automove his units 2 turns (6 roaded tiles) before it's my turn).

one of my armies (both 4x AC with 18 and 19 HPs) went to cut off corinth from any roads for reinforcements, making the taking of the city easier - or in case of the loss of too many HPs, the bringing in of extra defences for him, harder.

this pillaging army (let's call it A) came from the mountains using that road and pillaged all road tiles marked with an orange cross. the first one was probably a mistake because now i'll have to start movement on the mountains to get back "home" to knossos in case of a persian backstabbing.

next turn, A will pillage another tile and withdraw. either the cattle of the one SE (yellow circles) of it. the cattle however would make me endangered from all units counterattacking from within herakleia because the roaded forest actually lies right next to athens (extrapolatable by the culture borders).

the persian forces obviously all have been killed. but no real wonder because they were only horses and archers (hey xerxes, i gave you iron... USE IT!). the blue circles mark tiles where greek offensive units were spotted. one elite swordsman and once a medinf (elite too, iirc)

meanwhile, army B had the choice of entering higher grounds (mountain S of corinth) or attacking immediately. i chose the attack, because i am positive that i can survive most counterattacks. after taking out the fortified vet hoplite, i still have 13 HPs left. with a defensive power of 3, he'd need about 3 medinfs/swordsmen to have a good chance of taking me out. but with all the persian attacks around pharsalos and all the egyptian and babylonian attacks on his northern borders, i presume andy sees corinth as depricated and not as roman-army-graveyard.

of course, i could be mistaken... but i'll know that next turn

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sabrewolf is offline sabrewolf

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  Old Post 16-08-2004 15:31 Visit sabrewolf<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

meanwhile, my score is skyrocketing in comparison to all other civs.

in the last 10 turns
rome went from 658 to 770 (+112, +17%)
greece went from 337 to 359 (+22, +6.5%)
persia went from 438 to 470 (+32, +7.3%)
egypt went from 378 to 420 (+42, +11%)
germanics from 378 to 389 (+11, 2.9% - my pillaging in that war is paying it's toll now)
babylon from 347 to 374 (+27, +7.8%)
celts from 328 to 356 (+28, +8.5%)
and the carthagians are still stuck at 193.

in the next turn, i'll be getting gunpowder. i'm going for military tradition before settling down. that's still 3 expensive techs away, so it should take around 40 turns to get there. persia i currently the only civ to worry me technology-wise. no one else has achieved another tech since andy gifted everybody theology (him neither!) but persia has had education for quite some time now and is probably on the way to astronomy, banking or printing press - maybe even got one of the first two already

so persia will be the next to feel my military strength... once andy is out of the game and knights become available.

now about the

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sabrewolf is offline sabrewolf

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  Old Post 16-08-2004 21:59 Visit sabrewolf<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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further thoughts for the rest of the game:

leaders and armies and borders:
i've got 31 cities at the moment and the 32nd will be planted soon (fur city between germanics and celts). that allowes me to have 8 armies! so far i've got 3, of which one is still empty (waiting for knights... or cavalry at this tech pace). with my aim of transferring the palace some day and later on building some small wonders, i'll need at least 6 more leaders. but currently, i havn't got enought troops to defend all my borders sately.

this should change, once i get musketmen in place. defence 5 fortified in fortresses should make persia lose all it potence. it's a real shame legionaries can't build fortresses in the au-mod as they can in the rise-of-rome scenario

the germanic/celtic border should then be the only wide border, whereby the celts will be concentrating their attacks on my future fur city... so i'll need culture, barracks, walls, etc. the germanics have a bigger range of target cities...

so all in all... i won't be ready for any large scale war until in about 30 turns... approx. when cavalry becomes available. before that, it's too risky (i could easily take out the persian coming towards me, but i'd have problems with knossos)

sabrewolf is offline sabrewolf

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post-greek era: peace or war
without being allowed to conquer cities, wars take too long and democracy isn't an option when planning to leader-farm... probably better to have communism...

on the other hand, i'll have to finish this game by spaceship (havn't tried a spaceship victory since civ3 vanilla) and techpace is slowish in communism (on such a map) and monarchy.

so i'm wondering if
a) take the peaceful route and go for democracy, have foreign financing and maxing out my research at 100%, trying to get all industrial and modern wonders, possibly even going for diplomatic victory (is it too late after having been at war with at least 3 AI?)

b) stay warmonger style completely cripple the AI with my armies pillaging everything they find and kill all units the AI sends me?


what would you choose?

Last edited by sabrewolf on 16-08-2004 at 22:49

Solomwi is offline Solomwi

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  Old Post 16-08-2004 22:27
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I would think once the Greeks are eliminated, whether or not to attack cities is entirely up to you.

sabrewolf is offline sabrewolf

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  Old Post 16-08-2004 22:32 Visit sabrewolf<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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i know... but i think i'll stick to the topic of the game: no attacking enemy cities. also, it more comparable with other players (even though a human oponent is harder that an AI).

with conquest victory enabled, the game would be over too soon (my cavarly armies would take city by city).

i could always replay it that way once i've finished whatever other style i chose

Solomwi is offline Solomwi

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  Old Post 16-08-2004 22:40
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True, I just meant it would still be within the spirit of the original restriction (to keep one player from pursuing a strategy of beat up the AI in order to overwhelm the other player), IMO. I hadn't thought about comparing the post-elimination game with others, though.

sabrewolf is offline sabrewolf

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  Old Post 16-08-2004 22:49 Visit sabrewolf<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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in the end, i'll do what the majority does. from what i've heard, several other games are in a similar situation where rome is advancing in on greece and looking good...

i can only presume that these are the games that are similar or further advanced than mine, so nbarclay's, alexman's and possibly aqualung's game.

i'm sure we'll get together to discuss about the future once the games are over.

nathan, you're sometimes reading this thread: have you already decided what you're going to do? once the game is wrapped up?

alexman is offline alexman
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  Old Post 16-08-2004 22:51 Visit alexman's homepage!
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I'm finally at the point where I can read this, so I'll comment as I read, even though it might be irrelevant by now.

quote:
Originally posted by sabrewolf
should i research philosophy at maximum research (48 turns at current rate, probably around 35 towards the end) or keep it at 10% and save up for other stuff.
i'm not bad at maths, but i don't know the art of foresight and can't really estimate how long it would exactly take at max research (including, REXing, etc). also, will any AI go for philosophy after writing?

In the AU mod, you are still quite likely to beat the AI to Philosophy, although not as easily as before. The values Philosophy about as much as Literature (exept scientific) and Code of Laws, and much less than Map Making (still).

We did not want to give Philosophy high AI research priority, because that would be worse for all the AI that don't get it first. It's also an optional tech in the AU mod.

Good job getting it, anyway. It gives you lots of power in terms of trade value.

 
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