19-07-2004 09:54									#121
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Yes you are. I paid to be tought by a professor, not you.

Wishful thinking. You paid to be taught, full stop.

At any rate, even if you get a professor to teach, it might not be to your advantage because the prof does not necessarily know how to teach. In fact, most of them don't.

	19-07-2004 09:54									#122
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: TA job is a special job that is a privilege to have

No it isn't. It's the bread and butter of every grad student. It's drudgework that somebody like a prof isn't going to put up with.

	19-07-2004 10:02									#123
	Suffering from ads?

And since it's not really that special of a job, you applied to do it over other jobs because...?

	19-07-2004 10:03									#124
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

It pays for rent and groceries.

	19-07-2004 10:12									#125
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker And since it's not really that special of a job, you applied to do it over other jobs because...?

...if I worked at another job I'd be deported?

	19-07-2004 10:14									#126
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

So is your argument simply against all unions? If the guy sweeping up at a warehouse doesn't find his job special then why'd he apply? Why should him and the other floor-sweepers have a union? If he doesn't want to sweep floors then there are other people who would be willing to.

Do you have a point here, Ted are are you just spewing **** like you seem to be?

	19-07-2004 10:15									#127
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Ramo It pays for rent and groceries.

And again, for the 1000th time, why don't other jobs do this?

	19-07-2004 10:16									#128
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Haha, TAing is a joke job if there ever was one. You don't deserve to unionize, you probably don't even deserve your job.

My girlfriend is a TA, and MAN what a joke. She does NOTHING, and gets paid good money for it. You grade papers, MAYBE sit over a discussion group a couple times a month. Give me a break, you're students who got a break by a Prof letting you help them out AND you get paid for it. Its the equivalent of mowing your neighbors lawn. If you want to unionize, go bag groceries.

	19-07-2004 10:16									#129
	Got spare money?

Why don't you explain how your argument doesn't work for all unions, Ted?

	19-07-2004 10:16									#130
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Wishful thinking. You paid to be taught, full stop.

I know what I paid for and it wasn't substandard instruction by other students.

	19-07-2004 10:17									#131
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse ...if I worked at another job I'd be deported?

So you couldn't go to a university in your own country? You know the risks going in...you put yourself in the situation...

	19-07-2004 10:18									#132
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker And again, for the 1000th time, why don't other jobs do this?

Because TAs are snobs who don't want to get real jobs, but want real job benefits.

	19-07-2004 10:18									#133
	Put an end to popups!

An intro undergrad class ain't an intro undergrad class unless it's taught by a Chinaman with a poor grasp on English.

	19-07-2004 10:18									#134
	Support Apolyton

Ted, I'm still waiting for you to answer the point that's been brought up a dozen times:

you've said that grad students shouldn't have a union because if they don't want to do the job for what they're being paid then there are others who will. How does this not apply to every profession?

	19-07-2004 10:19									#135
	Remove this text

KrazyHorse, where are you from?

	19-07-2004 10:21									#136
	Put an end to popups!

Hey, Jimmy: I don't know what the **** your girlfriend has a degree in, but why don't you explain to me how it is that a TA makes good money when somebody who gets a job in industry with an equivalent education in physics makes 3 times as much?

	19-07-2004 10:23									#137
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Ok, lets do a compromise. TA's get the right to unionize fully and completely, IF the employers are allowed to fire them for any reason they can think of (well except for Constitutionally prohibited ones, of course).

Good? No? Oh well, I tried .

	19-07-2004 10:25									#138
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse So is your argument simply against all unions? If the guy sweeping up at a warehouse doesn't find his job special then why'd he apply? Why should him and the other floor-sweepers have a union? If he doesn't want to sweep floors then there are other people who would be willing to.

That's nice. But here is the point.

Legally if they say you can form a union, then fine, form a union. Shoot yourselves in the foot.

Practically unions these days are no good and even to the point of being counterproductive and harmful to the very people they are trying to protect.

Secondly the formation of union should only be considered when working conditions have become so terrible that they become abusive. Low pay and long hours, give me a break! Every worker in America should form a union given those (relative in the eye of the beholder) conditions! A cushy teaching assistant job does not meet these conditions especially considering there are many other alternatives available to "pay for food and rent."

And finally I have seen cases where union abuse and corruption runs so rampant and especially when workers are practically FORCED to join the damn thing and have no control over their own fate.

Like I said, trading one pimp for another.

	19-07-2004 10:31									#139
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn Haha, TAing is a joke job if there ever was one. You don't deserve to unionize, you probably don't even deserve your job. My girlfriend is a TA, and MAN what a joke. She does NOTHING, and gets paid good money for it. You grade papers, MAYBE sit over a discussion group a couple times a month. Give me a break, you're students who got a break by a Prof letting you help them out AND you get paid for it. Its the equivalent of mowing your neighbors lawn. If you want to unionize, go bag groceries.

	19-07-2004 10:32									#140
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Hey, Jimmy: I don't know what the **** your girlfriend has a degree in, but why don't you explain to me how it is that a TA makes good money when somebody who gets a job in industry with an equivalent education in physics makes 3 times as much?

She has a degree in nothing, she's still undergrad, but got the TAship anyways because of her grades. She's getting something like 600 twice a month for like 5 hours of actual TA work per work. Plus all these grad students have loans and scholarships too.

Its good money if you're a student, if you want a better job, drop out of school and get one.

	19-07-2004 10:34									#141
	Suffering from ads?

And regarding the immigration thing, that's a separate issue. If students are being abused because of their immigration status then that needs to be dealt with but not through a union.

	19-07-2004 10:37									#142
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I hate TAs, and they shouldn't be unionized. At my uni they are unionized and at least every year they threaten to go on strike because they demand more pay, and yet they are amongst the highest paid employees in the university, making more than librarians and technicians and custodial and construction staff... ie, people with real jobs, not lame ass students.

Cry me a river.

	19-07-2004 10:42									#143
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

That is the exact situation of why I find the unions harmful. Meanwhile the rest of the university is harmed by their actions.

Primadonnas for sure.

	19-07-2004 10:53									#144
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn She has a degree in nothing, she's still undergrad, but got the TAship anyways because of her grades. She's getting something like 600 twice a month for like 5 hours of actual TA work per work. Plus all these grad students have loans and scholarships too. Its good money if you're a student, if you want a better job, drop out of school and get one.

Then your girlfriend has no right to complain because she's making as much as a grad student without having the same qualifications as a grad student.

	19-07-2004 10:53									#145
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker That is the exact situation of why I find the unions harmful. Meanwhile the rest of the university is harmed by their actions. Primadonnas for sure.

Yeah, and they force us all to cross picket lines just to get to class, and the buses won't go over them so we have to walk an extra couple miles to get to campus in the first place. All so some other students can afford to go drinking more often and buy lates for 15 hours of work per week.

	19-07-2004 10:54									#146
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn yet they are amongst the highest paid employees in the university, making more than librarians and technicians and custodial and construction staff

BS. You have any figures to back this up or are you talking out of your ass?

	19-07-2004 10:54									#147
	Increase Your PM Length

Who said she was complaining?

	19-07-2004 10:56									#148
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Then your girlfriend has no right to complain because she's making as much as a grad student without having the same qualifications as a grad student.

She doesn't complain. She is now anti-TA and hates them all, now that she realizes how little they actually do and how much they get paid to (not) do it. Her getting the job was what filled us both in to the ugly world of TAing.

	19-07-2004 10:56									#149
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I was pointing out the difference between somebody who's gotten their degree and somebody who hasn't.

And as to the actual topic, you've basically conceded that grad students have as much right to form a union as any other employee does?

	19-07-2004 10:57									#150
	Increase the size of your Attachments

No they don't.

They are still considered students.

So there!