11-08-2004 10:01									#181
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Hmm - turn's up, and I've downloaded and opened it (just to see what the covert ops info is)

If we want to pursue the turn right now, are these the non-contentious agreed-upon orders?

• Rush the Colony Pod at SC3 (costs 7 ec's)
  
• commence Shinsengumi's disengagement from garrison duty, sending it downriver into the Crater Lakes area with a view to riding the Rio Grande north
  
• Continue Rolling Thunder's coastline exploration (north)
  
• pop the southern pod with our weaker (morale) rover, using the stronger one as back-up as needed
  
• move Invincible 3 tiles west to see if we are land-bridged to the south
  
• call Zak and buy Lal's commlink for 25 ec's
  
• Call Lal and see if he'll trade or Treaty
  
• move sliders to maximize ec revenue for a few turns

	11-08-2004 12:24									#182
	Got spare money?

I think that's everything. Go for it!

	11-08-2004 18:05									#183
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Whoooooeeeee ........................

(Hold on to your hats)

2126 Report

• Colony pod at SC3 rushed for 7 ec's
  
• Shinsengumi moved from SC3 and is just approaching SC2 en-route to joining the Rio Grande
  
• Rolling Thunder continued north and northwest, hugging our eastern coastline. Zak seems to have sailed off - at least he's not in sight of our rovers
  
• Invincible moved 3 tiles east - our continent is not connected by a landbridge to any landmass to our south
  
• Called up Zak, he still won't trade or treaty, but did sell us Lal's commlink for 25 ec's
  
• Called Lal. He, too, won't trade or treaty, so we truced.
  
• moved sliders to 70/10/20 (12 ec's per turn) to maximize revenues
  
• Popped the southern pod with R-112. Dimensional Rift transported us 15 tiles south to a forested small landmass that seems to be connected in 3 directions

	11-08-2004 18:06									#184
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****, too late.

	11-08-2004 18:10									#185
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quote: Originally posted by Primus Pilus ok, for clarifcation, i pushed that a CP go to the sth mineral nut when we found it several turns ago. what is our strategy, and better our tactics?

I'd suggest to first let a former build a road south. If we continue to build CPs without first completing at least part of our road network, we'll start to lose more and more turn advantage because of the CPs spending useless turns in transport to new base sites.

	11-08-2004 18:12									#186
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2126 presend

Attachment: acdg3-sparta, 2126 presend.zip
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	11-08-2004 18:14									#187
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I thought we'd all agreed that the SC3 colony pod was going to still be in the crater (in fact, will be founded next turn)?

And it'd make more sense for the trannie to take a colony pod south rather than build roads there, wouldn't it? (as previously discussed)

	11-08-2004 18:15									#188
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I'm now gonna have a look at the turn. Could you please wait a bit with posting it in the general forum?

	11-08-2004 18:29									#189
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Googlie, I think you made one mistake and one oversight.

First, energy allocations are not yet changed in the presend I have. Might I suggest 60-10-30, as on 70-10-20 we'd lose one labs due to inefficiency in SC2? Or are the extra credits some faster worth losing some labs?

Second, you payed two credits too much for the SC3 hurry order. A few years back, you also paid one credit too much for hurrying the SC2 rover Shinsengimu (sp?). That's because unfortunately you still seem to think hurrying units costs 2 credits per mineral, like it is for facilities. However for units it's much more irregular. Could you please have a look at the file I attached below? It could save us a few credits in the future.

Oh yeah, perhaps SC3's second worker could be changed to the 2-2-1 tile? (Though I think it won't make a difference for when SC3 will grow next.)

Otherwise, turn looking great!

Attachment: nethogs_smac_rush_build_table.pdf
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

Last edited by Maniac on 11-08-2004 at 18:36

	11-08-2004 18:41									#190
	Increase Your PM Length

Can do (but if its lab points we want, at 30/10/60 we'll get 15 per (and nonlinear math in 8 years) with 3 ec's per turn, but at 60/10/30 it's 9 labs per turn with NLM in13 years but 9 ec's per turn.

(At my suggested ec maxxing rate of 70/10/20 it's 12 ec;s per turn with 5 labpoints per and NLM in 27 years.

I guess my question is:

Do we want

• NLM in 8 years with 24 ec's accumulated in those 8 years (at 30/10/60)
  
• NLM in 11 years with 56 ec;s in those 8 years (at 50/10/40)
  
• NLM in 13 years with 72 ec's accumulated in the first 8 years (at 60/10/30)
  
• NLM in 27 years with 96 ec's in those first 8 years (at 70/10/20)

	11-08-2004 18:50									#191
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And if we move a GH worker from a 2/1/0 tile to a 1/1/1 tile we pick up an extra lab point (but delay our growth to size 3 from 15 to 29 turns - not a big deal after we change to planned)

	11-08-2004 18:50									#192
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Here's where R-112 ended up:

Attachment: rift.jpg
This has been downloaded 44 time(s).

	11-08-2004 22:18									#193
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie And if we move a GH worker from a 2/1/0 tile to a 1/1/1 tile we pick up an extra lab point (but delay our growth to size 3 from 15 to 29 turns - not a big deal after we change to planned)

Perhaps, if we have a former free somewhere in the future, we could consider planting a forest there?

quote: Do we want NLM in 8 years with 24 ec's accumulated in those 8 years (at 30/10/60) NLM in 11 years with 56 ec;s in those 8 years (at 50/10/40) NLM in 13 years with 72 ec's accumulated in the first 8 years (at 60/10/30) NLM in 27 years with 96 ec's in those first 8 years (at 70/10/20)

I'd prefer 60-10-30, as that's the option that gives us the most credits without losing any energy to inefficiency. Also I don't see the need for acquiring NLM very soon. After all, we haven't even infiltrated any faction yet, so we don't know yet if an invasion of one of our neighbours would have a good chance for success. And I hope we won't start a military build-up while we don't know even that. (And I assume we'll need some credits anyway to upgrade 1/2-1-2 rovers to 4-1-2 (?))

Also, after we acquired NLM, besides Progenitor Psych there doesn't seem to be any technology we could research that one of our neighbours doesn't have yet: Industrial Base, Biogenetics, Social Psych, Doctrine: Loyalty... I thought that therefore it would be better to try and steal or trade those techs instead of researching them ourselves => no focus on labs production anymore.

quote: I thought we'd all agreed that the SC3 colony pod was going to still be in the crater (in fact, will be founded next turn)?

Q to be sure: Is the southern crater tile still the next base site?

quote: And it'd make more sense for the trannie to take a colony pod south rather than build roads there, wouldn't it? (as previously discussed)

Ah yes, forgot about that. So when do we plan to ship such a CP south? After, before or at the same time of the mission to infiltrate the Hive?

	12-08-2004 00:36									#194
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quote: Q to be sure: Is the southern crater tile still the next base site?

Yes, as far as I know.

quote: Ah yes, forgot about that. So when do we plan to ship such a CP south? After, before or at the same time of the mission to infiltrate the Hive?

That would be nice if we could do it at the same time. An added bonus would be that the probe team would be sent back to the newly founded base.

quote: I'd prefer 60-10-30, as that's the option that gives us the most credits without losing any energy to inefficiency.

Sounds good.

As for moving the rifted rover, I'm guessing that the north and east routes just lead back into Hive territory, so I'd go south, and maybe we'll meet another faction.

Edit: Actually, now that I look at the map thread and see where it is in the big picture, it looks like moving east would move us closer to where a faction might be. Hmmm, that looks an awful lot like Mount Planet, SE of where R-112 CRV is right now. Didn't the Morganites say that they started out right next to Mount Planet? Of course, they could be lying, but still...well, there's gotta be someone down there, and I guess heading east will get us there, maybe.

	12-08-2004 05:21									#195
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the rifted rover isn't too bad. It could allow us to contact the data angels, or morganites. whoever is down on the other side of the hive. maybe pop some pods as well.

	12-08-2004 18:49									#196
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quote: Originally posted by Zeiter BTW, I noticed that our boundaries with the Hive have been slightly redrawn. Yang must have built another base somewhat close to our territory. Actually, now that I look closely at it, it doesn't make any sense at all! It looks like Yang would have had to plant a base on land south of where our foil is right now in order to get the boundaries to behave that way. But as far as I can tell, that seems to be ocean. And our boundaries seem to have extended abnormally far towards Yang's territory. Because our territories now meet each other. Yet, we didn't plant any new bases to the south. Can you guys figure it out?

Our boundaries have again been redrawn - closer to what they were in 2124.

Curiouser and curiouser

(And look at what it's done to Gythium harbour!!)

	12-08-2004 18:55									#197
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(And just for the record - here's our Northern Border in 2126)

Attachment: 2126 - northern border.jpg
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	12-08-2004 19:46									#198
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Suggested turn orders for 2127:

Rolling Thunder continues northwest to map the remaining portions of our northern territory

Shinsengumi moves into Santiago Citadel preparatory to heading up the Eurotas to Olympus Academy to check any University disembarkments in the east (we don't need to send it north on the Rio Grande, as Rolling Thunder will have mapped out our northern coast by the time Shinsengumi gets there)

Chiron Knights moves northeast 1 tile on to that small river (thus uncovering that last remaining black tile) - do we want them to move upriver and pass the monolith en-route to heading east to the Rio Rojo (to uncover those interior tiles north of the SCC Invincible? - or do we want it to head 1 tile north then 1 east into Great Collective's base radius to provoke a response from Yang?

SCC Invincible heads northeast, then north and north to fully map our southeastern coastline, then it can rest and heal for a couple of turns

R-112 CRV heads into the forest to the east to see where that connection leads (we know that the Hive is to its north)

SC3's Colony Pod heads to its assignment on 53:19 - maybe can make it this turn, maybe next

Tomcat-1 heads for the arid nut special on 53:20 to plant a forest there for the new Sector Cratersouth base
(I'm assuming that Sparta Command's former, when commissioned, will take responsibility for developing infrastructure on the east coast, and that Tomcat-1 will mainly be confined to west coast terraforming)

Call Lal and sell Planetary Networks to him at the going rate

Anything missed?

Comments?

Last edited by Googlie on 12-08-2004 at 19:54

	13-08-2004 01:17									#199
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The Shinsengumi Brigade leaves Sector Craterwest en route to Santiago Citadel

Attachment: shinsengumi on the move.jpg
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	13-08-2004 01:20									#200
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Nice forest Tomcat-1 planted!

	13-08-2004 05:13									#201
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Orders for 2127 sound great, except I'd go ahead and repair SCC Invincible this turn. In the past few turns, we've moved it with damage so that we could see if there was a land bridge to the east. But now that we know there isn't, I don't think there's any urgency to head that way. Every turn that we delay repairing it, we lose 1 movement point of exploration. I know it's pretty picky, but hey, getting that extra movement point might lead to us popping a pod 1 turn sooner or something.

BTW, today was my first day of work at a real job. I'm officially part of the proletariat! Woohoo!

	13-08-2004 22:39									#202
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cool

and yes I would prefer to keep out units up in health. native life can be very dangerous. And usually in my games I get into a situation where my naval units have even odds (I play my games with the battle odds on). It helps to have enough movement to flee.

	15-08-2004 05:39									#203
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2127 midturn report

Called up Lal – he won’t reply as Maniac found on his diplotest run

R-112 CRV heads east into forest, only to see ocean. Will turn back and head south now?

Chiron Knights heads north to uncover last black tile in our southwest region, then heads upriver towards the monolith and the southern tip. Encounters a mindworm on the river, and toasts it for ec’s (and gets upgraded to Elite!!)

Shinsengumi crosses the crater rim and bivouacs for the night at Santiago Citadel. Will head upriver to Olympus Academy next turn.

Rolling Thunder heads northwest along the coast for 1 tile, then encounters fungus so turns inland to aviod it

SC3’s Colony Pod moves down the Crater Lakes but can’t make its designated site with its last 1/3rd movement point

Tomcat-1 follows the CP down the lakes but it too can’t get to the nut tile this turn (or next)

As suggested, SCC Invincible rests this turn for at-sea repairs

Changed production at SC3 to another colony pod (pop grows in 6 turns, pod completed in 9)

Attachment: avdg3-sparta-midturn, 2127.zip
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	15-08-2004 10:49									#204
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Lead Spear would like to know Junta stragetic goals.

	15-08-2004 11:12									#205
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Probe Units

Early game I've often made Probe Foils (no armor, cheap) to get Data Links.

	15-08-2004 11:42									#206
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Just popping in to check up on things...

quote: Early game I've often made Probe Foils (no armor, cheap) to get Data Links.

Oh yeah, those are great. Right now we've opted to go with the transport + land probes route (more bang for our buck that way), but we're definitely keeping the probe foil option in mind. And later on, probe cruisers with deep radar are even better.

As for broad strategic goals...off the top of my head, I would say:

Short term:
*Establish more bases
***Establish bases on East Coast for University operations
***Encroach on Yang to the south
*Terraform road network
*Infiltrate Yang
*Contact other factions
*Switch to planned
*Infiltrate/steal from Zak

Long term:
*Find a good human ally
*Fight profitable wars
*Steal/acquire/research tech to at least maintain tech parity
*Set ourselves up for total domination of Planet

That's all I can think of at the moment.

Turn sounds good. Yeah, I guess R-112 CRV will head south now.

Chiron Knights is elite? woohoo!

This little bit had me confused:

quote: Tomcat-1 follows the CP down the lakes but it too can’t get to the nut tile this turn (or next)

Couldn't the former have made it to the arid nut tile in 2 moves by moving due south both turns? I don't see how moving on the river sped its movement.

Overall, everything seems to be going great.

	15-08-2004 17:39									#207
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quote: Originally posted by Zeiter Couldn't the former have made it to the arid nut tile in 2 moves by moving due south both turns? I don't see how moving on the river sped its movement.

Sometimes the obvioius is so blindingly obvious .......

I opened the turn, and was so obsessed with getting that Colony Pod off the river with its remaining 1/3rd movement point that I thought "If I can get the former there with its remaining 2/3rd point, maybe the CP will find it easier to move there too" (Notwithstanding the order I put the movements in for the narrative)

Result, of course, is that the former is still as far away (2 tiles) as when it started the turn.

GGLIE

	15-08-2004 18:51									#208
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Turn looking great! Also wonderful about the Chiron Knights! Now we'll have two elite rovers in the near future.

A pity about Tomcat-1's failed movement. Seeing this new situation with Tomcat-1 still two turns away from the nutrient tile, may I suggest we instead move to (55.17) - the eastern crater tile worked by SC2 - and immediately start cultivating a farm there the same turn?
We could then first produce a former in the new crater base, and make it our first hurry priority after switching to Planned. That former could have as first task planting a forest on that nutrient tile.
How does this sound?

Edit: Btw, will we attempt to pod the pods on (62.14) & (62.8) next year by respectively Shinsengumi and Rolling Thunder?

	15-08-2004 21:01									#209
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac A pity about Tomcat-1's failed movement. Seeing this new situation with Tomcat-1 still two turns away from the nutrient tile, may I suggest we instead move to (55.17) - the eastern crater tile worked by SC2 - and immediately start cultivating a farm there the same turn?

This sounds like a plan that would work

quote: We could then first produce a former in the new crater base, and make it our first hurry priority after switching to Planned. That former could have as first task planting a forest on that nutrient tile. How does this sound?

Sounds good. We'll have enough ec's to change to Planned next turn as anticipated, so with the +1 industry rushing the former at SC4 should be 21 - 23 ec's or thereabouts. If Lal answers his call-waiting next turn and buys Plan Nets from us we'll be able to afford the rush

quote: Btw, will we attempt to pod the pods on (62.14) & (62.8) next year by respectively Shinsengumi and Rolling Thunder?

Shinsengumi's prolly do-able and with the pod being in the base's radius there's prolly little negative involved.

I'd prefer to see Rolling Thunder go west and north next turn to finish mapping - it can always tackle the 62:8 pod on its return journey

But I'm not too adamant on that - except that the pod's on a mineral tile and RT will exhaust its movement points in getting there so can't retreat from a mindworrm (and it's already 10% injured)

BTW - I leave a week today for my 5 weeks' in the UK and Ireland, so will need to resign the turnplayer role prolly after this current turn. I'll be popping in to internet cafe's etc while away, so can offer comment etc, but unless I pack my laptop (and I'll see how much junk I need to take with me so it's not a given that I'll have it) I won't be able to run any probescans or do maps as I won't be able to load game turns. I'll post a message when I arrive at my sister's in London whether I need someone else to post the stuff I usually do or wether I have the laptop with me!!

	15-08-2004 21:24									#210
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie I'd prefer to see Rolling Thunder go west and north next turn to finish mapping - it can always tackle the 62:8 pod on its return journey

Ah yes, good point. After exploring our continent sounds fine by me.

quote: But I'm not too adamant on that - except that the pod's on a mineral tile and RT will exhaust its movement points in getting there so can't retreat from a mindworrm (and it's already 10% injured)

I normally share your concern about not popping without the ability to retreat or attack in the same turn. But as you say the pod is on a rocky tile, so we wouldn't be able to retreat in the same turn ever anyway (unless with an elite unit, but I think we'll need the new elite SC2 rover for garrison duty, as SC1 and SC3 will soon grow if we switch to Planned). Add to that that rovers can IIRC also retreat when attacked by worms - even on a rocky tile - and we have a guarantee Rollinhg Thunder could survive about any attack (unless we get a multiple worm infestation of course ). So I think there's not that much danger with popping that pod.

quote: BTW - I leave a week today for my 5 weeks' in the UK and Ireland, so will need to resign the turnplayer role prolly after this current turn. I'll be popping in to internet cafe's etc while away, so can offer comment etc, but unless I pack my laptop (and I'll see how much junk I need to take with me so it's not a given that I'll have it) I won't be able to run any probescans or do maps as I won't be able to load game turns. I'll post a message when I arrive at my sister's in London whether I need someone else to post the stuff I usually do or wether I have the laptop with me!!

Have fun on your travels!

I guess I could take over turnplaying again until end September or so (when I go live in Ghent and the new university year starts), though of course until end August I won't be able to get online as often due to my job, and thus turnplay time would be somewhat slower than when I played in July.