27-06-2004 13:27									#1
	Game Discussion - Turn 2101 onwards Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Here's your first 9 squares so you can start some discussion.

Attachment: gaians2101-23dvrsdg.jpg
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	27-06-2004 13:33									#2
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Thank you Kody, and welcome to our forum. I will now proceed to PM all remaining members to apply for membership. This will take around half an hour. Maybe then some discussion stirs up.

	27-06-2004 16:37									#3
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So, what can we say? We are on elevated ground, no rivers nearby , we have a scout patrol and two CPs, which is standard. We can use that rainy square for 2-1-0 I guess. What about second CP? Move it down the hill following rainy squares? Also, I suggested scouting with scout patrol to see surrounding terrain of our base, to see if there are bonuses/monoliths/pods, then send it into fungus to troll for MWs.

	27-06-2004 17:18									#4
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How about moving the scout patrol into the fungus hoping for a MW? We can follow him with the CP, using him as an escort as a security measure. We want to move our CP out on a diagonal anyway, right?


BTW, I assume we'll build a scout patrol as opposed to a former in our 1st base?

Last edited by Net Warrior on 27-06-2004 at 21:36

	27-06-2004 19:15									#5
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So, what do others think?

	27-06-2004 21:21									#6
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Since hills increase moisture on the west and decrease it on the right, we should avoid going east until we have a few formers to plant forests. Thus, I say we might as well plant our HQ on the landing tile, and move the other pod south, with the intention of moving it south further or to the west, depending on discovered terrain.

Moving the scout patrol into fungus sounds fine to me.

	28-06-2004 22:17									#7
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Edited out by snowflake.

Last edited by Snowflake on 02-08-2004 at 08:34

	28-06-2004 22:56									#8
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quote: Originally posted by HongHu I think you can do a former before the scout. Kody said something before the mindworms will not attack your first base in the first how many turns or something like that. Perhaps Kody can confirm that.

I am almost positive this is correct. When I was playtesting my October (2003) CGN Challenge I couldn't get the MW's to attack Zak's empty bases during the first few turns of the game. Although not conclusive, why I believe building a Former first is our best option, as getting some forest growing is imperitive!

As far as directions for our units: I'm kinda leaning towards sending our 2nd pod north/ northwest, as we are at the bottom of the map, and the sooner we establish our northern shoreline the sooner we can start building probe foils.


D

	29-06-2004 01:41									#9
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Going north with the 2nd CP isn't unreasonable, though we should avoid crossing east over any elevation drops.

We should definitely, unequivocally, build a former first. Mind worms attack units in the open at 1/3 normal strength before 2115, so a mind worm attacking a former in the open has 1:1 odds. Mind worms attack bases before 2115 at an extreme penalty, noncombat units always defend in bases against the planet as if they were combat units (except unarmored probe teams and AAs). Furthermore, the scout will go through the only adjacent fungus.

Before starting on forest, since we have rainy/rolling at high elevation, it might be better to build a few solar panels first to get to IA faster.

	29-06-2004 03:33									#10
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The case for a scout patrol: a) we can start looking for pods, MW, and future base sites in more than one direction b) based on pre-game chatter, we may be meeting another faction within 20 turns and we'll need troops in order to not get pushed around c) a former will take several more turns to build whereas a scout patrol will be out and about immediately (see (a) above) d) we can probably due without a former for the time being based on our favorable terrain and we can hope to find another base site that wont require a former immediately.

	29-06-2004 04:35									#11
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The case for a former:

If we really want a scout patrol, it can come from the second base
A former will take 5 turns, unless we hurry it, in which case it will take 3 or 4. That's only 2-3 turns slower than a scout patrol.
If we meet another faction within 20 years, it's to our advantage to have more productive tiles for sustained resistance, rather than a few weak units.
If we play too cautiously, someone who takes some risks and survives will pull ahead.
Our terrain, while good, can be significantly improved by a former. This wouldn't be the case if we had rainy/rolling/river (2-1-1) or monolith (2-2-2) tiles, since the former could be improved by only one FOP, and the latter not at all.
After quickly plopping down pod #2, we'll have about 10 years before pod #3. That's plenty of time to find a third base site, especially given that fertile land is west.

Given the risk of hostility, though, Industrial Base should be our first choice of tech, unless that screws up beelines too much.

	29-06-2004 05:08									#12
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sorry guys I´m really a newbie. I think we can go into fungus directions, maybe we can find a monolith there or at least we can harvest a 2 nut. We can even find a river there

	29-06-2004 09:45									#13
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I guess we havn't moved yet?

My opinion: Build here. Then scout nw or west. CP to the north. See that valley to the north? Looks good to me.

MWs will attack an empty base early, but it's exceedingly rare. Nonetheless, I agree that a SPatrol built first to find our first worm pronto is the best plan. If we'd been on a river we could troll with our initial scout, but without even a pod to pop, we need to find that worm!

Wish that our picture was a little zoomed out. It's possible to identify the topography 'in the dark' if one looks closely. With what we can see, here's my guess so far:

North: A very green valley and possible landmark: say 5 squares.

West:

South: The south pole is close, which is good and bad. We have our backs covered and have a place to troll for worms, but it limits our options. Save exploring here for last because it's very unlikely a landmark in that direction, and impossible that a faction is in that direction.

East: A tricksy CMN would put a landmark or valuable tiles in this direction, knowing that we'd be inclined to go the other way. What do you think?

I agree we need formers, but contact and MWs are even more valuable. Heck, we could even 'waste' a turn moving the CPs to scout. This position isn't initially promising, which beckons well for our overall position. We just need to get out and discover it.

-Smack

	29-06-2004 16:15									#14
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I would say we get a former, and then hurry it so that we get it in several turns. It is practically impossible that our base is destroyed so fast.

	29-06-2004 16:19									#15
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This is summary of all posibilities. I would say that majority of us agrees to move Scout Patrol in fungus

Attachment: gaians2101-summary.jpg
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	29-06-2004 16:22									#16
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I propose that we open the turn, build Gaia's Landing, start production of formets, insert stockplie into queue, then move scout patrol into fungus, make a presend save, and post it here. We can decide where to move the CP according to data we receive from scout patrol. Do you agree?

	29-06-2004 16:28									#17
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I agree. Lets build here, scout the mushrooms and decide where to move the pod.

Exellent terrain analysis smacsim.

	29-06-2004 16:36									#18
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Good by me.

We'll explore to the east, just not before we can patch up all the arid tiles. Of course, if we get a worm quickly, we can scout to the east much sooner.

	29-06-2004 16:42									#19
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Ok Chaos Theory, could you then open the turn, found a base, move scout patrol into fungus, save game, and post savegame here? Then we can decide upon Colony Pod #2?

	29-06-2004 17:25									#20
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My analysis- if square A shows to be rainy, definitely move CP to the south. We will gain turn advantage for the second base.
If square B shows to be arid, rocky or fungus, I again suggest moving to the south, since this would mean that land north of us is possibly to harsh to waste turns exploring it for suitable locations. I am sure that C will turn out to be fungus, according to texture of the fungus. D may also be fungus covered. Information from scout patrol is neccesary, but I would prefer second base on that rainy ground and third somewhere north. By the time we will have third CP ready, we will have some teritory explored, so decision will be very easy.

Attachment: gaians2101-summarytwo.jpg
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Last edited by Illuminatus on 29-06-2004 at 17:42

	29-06-2004 17:27									#21
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Nice to see a group of you starting as a team I was worried either obs would be playing mostly, or they'd be hold-ups, but it seems you're one of the more organised teams

	29-06-2004 18:31									#22
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Are CMNs allow to point out strategic mistakes Drogue?
I see a big one already.

	29-06-2004 19:21									#23
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Kody's post has just reminded me of something I wanted to ask. Does stockpiling energy give extra EC’s upon completing of: a) military units b) non-military units c) facilities d) all? If we get extra EC’s for a scout patrol build then we should build one and use those EC’s to rush a former in base#2.

	29-06-2004 19:36									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Kody Are CMNs allow to point out strategic mistakes Drogue? I see a big one already.

No. If it's a general principle, that you're going to post in every faction, go ahead, but helping teams with their strategy, either with suggestions or pointing out mistakes, is not a good idea. It's the teams playing, and whatever we say will be affected by our knowledge of other forums. Moreover, even if it wasn't, we're not a member of that team, and so helping them is biasing the game.

	29-06-2004 19:38									#25
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Answer is d)

	29-06-2004 19:47									#26
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I suppose we should try moving the SP into fungus before founding base #1. That should increase the likelihood of finding a worm.

	29-06-2004 19:51									#27
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Well, I doubt we will find a MW on turn one anyway, but I think that we are not going to find it in square adjacent to base square (I think this never happens). However, Kody 's remark is now worrying me. Does anyone know on what did he thought.

	29-06-2004 19:58									#28
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Have I sufficiently strengthened the case for building a scout patrol in Gaia's Landing?

	29-06-2004 20:05									#29
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I am still for former. What about other members?

	29-06-2004 20:56									#30
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Former.


D