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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:35
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Seems to me that, despite what he says he means to the contrary, Kid's version of the Utopia is all about a level of control that rivals that of The Matrix.
I'm sure he'd be quick to disagree with some or other one sentence answer, but let's take a look:
1) He says all he really wants to do is to collectivize labor BUT
2) He also wants to tell us the types of jobs we can have, control our sum-total hours, places of employment, have "Watchers" or some equivilent of them in place to make sure we don't bend the rules, put caps on our salaries, control innovation, centralize the flow of all goods and services....
That goes well beyond simply collective labor.
He says he's all for democracy, but the system he is describing is inflexible and forceful. THAT's not totalitarian?
We got a handful of hand-picked guys at the top who don't have to "work" (thinking isn't work) (and I'm assuming Kid will style himself as their leader), who are in charge of everything relating to economics in the new commie global economy....but they will use their powers only for good...to help the downtrodden of the world.
Their actions will be democratically guided (unless the democratic decision moves against accepted party dogma, for example...I suspect that the central party will need ultimate veto rights to prevent the masses from voting in Interest rates and re-inventing banking and such), and they won't behave in a totalitarian fashion at all....
....at least not after the dissenters have been crushed to lifelessness in one final and swift blow.
I think that about sums it up.
Do we get cool points and extra rations for turning our neighbors in if we catch them thinking improper, exploitive thoughts?
That's an important consideration, you know....could lead to its own brand of exploitation...not that anybody would ever turn in an innocent neighbor to get a few more breadcrumbs or anything, but.....
Just thinking out loud here.
-=Vel=-
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:35
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With the capitalists, we at least have some working models to point at-- we can say we like Canada or the US or UK or Sweden and debate among some existing realities. You can use those realities as a starting point.
My problem with kid's positions is they seem to all assume no strife and that everyone will just love this so that they all co-operate-- Basically it assumes away every experience with communism that humnaity has had
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:35
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Vel
I like it-- good summation.
Oh and where are you located nowadays? other than candle'bre of course
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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:35
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Right...exactly right.
People DO remember their history, and I don't think anybody's too keen on seeing a global version of the same experiment that has failed so spectacularly at the national level.
Why take more of a bad medicine?
But this is what they're pushing, and when asked for details about HOW the next revolution will be different, I get....well, either answers like this one which point back to the same old same old, or the forum equivalent of blank stares...as if it doesn't matter, or is a mystery too deep for the rank and file Reds to contemplate.
Well somebody better be contemplating it, and those somebodys better be spreading the word so the rank and file knows what the hell to do when implementation day rolls around, or it's gonna suffer paralysis from the get go (and not because the Reds will be under pressure from day one by the capitalists of the world...presumably, they'll all be dead after the terrible swift blow).
Seems to me the Red Tide has at least three fundamental problems with it that have to be solved before it even gets off the ground.
1) For global implementation to be a reality, then the bulk of, if not all of the Reds need to be more or less on the same page. We can't have Statists and Non-Statists, Space-Bots on the Moon and Realists all competing to get "their brand" adopted for the implementation. Won't work.
2) Gotta solve the problem of totalitarian control of the economic engine. Install checks and balances on the folks holding the keys to the economic engine (if that's even possible...they'll have so much power that it may not be), and can be voted out every so often.
3) Gotta solve the problem of requiring Nth degree control of the populace. People WILL express their individuality and they WILL buck the controllers. This system does not allow, approve of or condone such things, and it's this, more than anything else, that will poison the system from the inside.
-=Vel=-
Last edited by Velociryx on 21-08-2004 at 05:16
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Kuciwalker
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of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:35
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Sorry, I think we're just trying to spam to 500 posts.
And I really take back all the nasty stuff I said.
Last edited by Kuciwalker on 21-08-2004 at 07:06
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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:35
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Hey...it's been the RED SIDE's assertion from the get go for global implementation....that wasn't me...that's all your team.
Now...I know I'm a bit slow on the uptake, but correct me here...we only got ONE globe, right?
And that would mean you only get ONE implementation? (I mean, that sorta follows, yes?)
So....it doesn't really matter how you spin it. That's one shot.
Of course, the whole thing about naming the failures after the folks who spawned them really IS a masterful touch....makes it LOOK like it's all new and warm and fuzzy, but when you get down to particulars, it's the same song and dance with some other guy's name attached.
And THAT is the reality.
-=Vel=-
Last edited by Velociryx on 21-08-2004 at 09:00
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21-08-2004 05:01
You mean there's a world outside of Candle'Bre?
). If we ever organize a southeastern meet, you'll have to join in.
oops.
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