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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Kidicious
Why don't you let us handle the details? |
now THERE is a scary thought-- I don't even want you anywhere near determining the broad policy
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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:35
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I have no interest in your toothbrush. You may keep it as your personal property.
See here?
This one phrase sums it all up, rather nicely.
"You may keep...."
As if I need your permission for that.
But that's what you guys want, ultimately, right?
To be in a position of power.
To be in a position to DECIDE.
Who gets what.
Who keeps what.
Anything that falls outside the arbitrary limits you set (or hell, you know, if somebody just plain pisses you off, even), poof. Coopted by the state....or, for those of you not advocating a statist system, then poof...off to the central warehouse run by spacebots on the darkside of the moon.
Or something.
The problem I have with that is that I'm fully capable of making decisions for myself, and I don't want or need you looking over my shoulder.
-=Vel=-
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Kidicious
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Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
time: 21:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Velociryx
I have no interest in your toothbrush. You may keep it as your personal property.
See here?
This one phrase sums it all up, rather nicely.
"You may keep...."
As if I need your permission for that.
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You do need permission for it, even in a capitalist system.
quote:
Originally posted by Velociryx
But that's what you guys want, ultimately, right?
To be in a position of power.
To be in a position to DECIDE.
Who gets what.
Who keeps what.
Anything that falls outside the arbitrary limits you set (or hell, you know, if somebody just plain pisses you off, even), poof. Coopted by the state....or, for those of you not advocating a statist system, then poof...off to the central warehouse run by spacebots on the darkside of the moon.
Or something.
The problem I have with that is that I'm fully capable of making decisions for myself, and I don't want or need you looking over my shoulder.
-=Vel=- |
Yes, well, we have been out of power long enough.
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:35
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I'm still stuck on the idea of getting paid for effort. Personally I am thinking of becoming a male prostitute with clientele of only much younger and incredibly attractive females. If I worked really hard at it (doing advertising and marketing) shouldn't I be paid well even though my output is zero?
After all, as I understand it, the value of a product is irrelevant to how much the worker should get paid. Right??
I assume that kid's "we" wouldn't permit me that job anyway. At their morning meeting they would determine that I should dig ditches with my hands before jumping in their state vehicle and heading out to their state dacha.
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:35
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To repeat:
Who makes up the "we" that decides all this stuff"?
Also-- if I decide not to share my invention but to simply use it to make the required 10 widgets more quickly, would that be ok with you and your magical "we", or would you pay me les for the same product since I had to work less?
Oh and I still want to know who decides how much work is worth if output is not considered?
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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:35
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So...at the end of the day, about all you can tell me is that the one thing you Reds agree on is that the "old kind of centralism" (a la USSR) is definitely out, and in its place will be a new, democratic, kinder, gentler centralization.
I guess then, that leaves all the Reds who are arguing against a statis approach out.
Did they see that memo?
The Constitution protects my right to property, that's certainly true. And even if it didn't, that's such an inconsequential item that I can't envision anybody really wanting to take, HOWEVER, that's a horse of a very different color than what you said. You said something about requiring permission to HAVE the toothbrush, didn't you? The constitution does not grant me that permission. Nowhere in the document does it say "and it's okay to own a toothbrush...go ahead, it won't bite." Protecting my right to do a thing and granting permission are not the same thing. I dunno...maybe in Red-Land they are tho...what do you think?
But you really didn't answer the questions before you.
I make something cool. Something never before seen and productivity enhancing. Made in my spare time, and from my own little creative brain.
Now...first you say that I can keep it, but then you say that everybody else gets to use one "just like it" - so...what if I don't wanna give up the secret of my invention? What then? Doesn't matter that the police aren't doing door to door invention inspections...sooner or later people will start to take note that I'm 20% more productive than everybody else....of course, this means I'm working less hard...so does that mean I get a paycut? (cos you get paid according to how hard you work, right? So while my invention makes me more productive, it makes my job easier...is that a paycut for me? If so, where is my incentive to invent ANYTHING? If not, and if I don't wanna just GIVE the creation that sprang from my brain away, what are you going to do about it?
Further, let's say that you do go ahead and become that which you hate...you exploit me. Sad but true...I'm a dangerous man and with this new tool, I could...I don't know...take over the communist enclave of Bostwana or something. So now I'm a menace, and to prevent the Velicious Menace from doing anything exploitive, you beat me to the punch, and steal my labor to make copies for everybody else to use.
Do they get them free? Does the state pick up the tab for the massive Tool Rollout? Or will the new tool just show up one day with an instruction manual and everybody's pay gets docked X amount to pay the cost?
What if some people are old school and don't wanna use the tool, or just don't wanna see their pay docked? Do they have to anyway?
Layer upon layer of beaurocracy....dizzying. And the opportunities for abuse and fraud...wow.
Kid...before the day of the revolution, you might wanna rethink a few things.
-=Vel=-
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