03-09-2004 20:57									#451
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quote: in a week, there were three notable terror acts in Russia.

And now take into account acts of terror that took place in Iraq and Israel this week

	03-09-2004 20:58									#452
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quote: They can't let the citizens kill these terrorists. They have to be taken to a dark hole and skinned until they give up who supplied and organized them. You have to get at the root or more will be back. The very culture that brought forth such monsters must be violently destroyed. WWII's carpet bombing comes to mind.

I understand why you say this, but killing more innocent kids isn't really a solution in my book.

	03-09-2004 20:58									#453
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"Lancer is making sense."-Kidicious



Safety of the children is what civilization is all about. From the earliest stone age settlements it must have been the first thing. For the Russians and the world that safety is gone and we must do what it takes to get it back.

	03-09-2004 20:58									#454
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quote: And now take into account acts of terror that took place in Iraq and Israel this week

Unrelevant. Terror acts in Israel or Iraq do not prove that there may be more in Russia shortly - it's the big amount of terror acts and terrorists in Russia itself.

	03-09-2004 20:59									#455
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quote: Originally posted by lightblue If it is Al-Qaeda involvement where are they hiding nowadays that the Russians could go to war with? Afghanistan? Nominally under US friendly control, and I doubt the Russians would want to go there again. Pakistan? "Friendly" government, nuclear power. Iraq? Uzbekistan?

Saif el adel, Operational head of AQ, and Saad Bin Laden (OBL's son, who also has an operational role), and others in Iran, theoretically under house arrest, though Michael Ledeen and others have claimed that they are essentially under Iranian protection and are directing operations from there. Admin has hinted at this but not come out openly with accusations (after iraq-WMD it would seem wise for the USto wait for very clear evidence - in any case our Army is overstretched anyway) Saudi has asked for these operatives to be extradited, while Iran has refused. Russia, one of Irans principle trade partners, could add its weight to the call for the extradition of these men.


WRT to Pakistan, its actions against AQ have occured due to US pressure, largely. Adding Russian pressure could add to Paki activity, although historically Russian relations with Paki have been poor.

	03-09-2004 21:01									#456
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"I understand why you say this, but killing more innocent kids isn't really a solution in my book."

Children wouldn't be the target, that alone would be an improvement over the current situation.

What solution is in your book?

	03-09-2004 21:03									#457
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Stalin would remove all Chechnians to Siberia... In fact there are a lot of uranium mines that require workforce.

	03-09-2004 21:04									#458
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quote: What solution is in your book?

I'm not intelligent enough I'm afraid.

quote: Children wouldn't be the target, that alone would be an improvement over the current situation.

You go after those that ARE responsible, not those who you think are or who could be.
THAT is the basis of civilisation.

	03-09-2004 21:09									#459
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer Colon, I still would not announce a condemnation at this point. Those terrorists have an ability to exact revenge on Putin through those children, while Bush is not touchable. I would do exactly what Putin is doing. I would do nothing that might endanger the lives of the surviving child hostages. When it's over, I'd condemn it and go to war when I found out who is behind this, until there was no chance of such a thing ever happening again, and children can once again be safe in their own schools.

Last time they gassed half the hostages in their efforts to "settle" the crisis. So sorry, but I'm not really sharing your assumption that the silence is a deliberate tactic to safeguard lives. I'd rather believe they're clueless.

	03-09-2004 21:09									#460
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"You go after those that ARE responsible, not those who you think are or who could be.
THAT is the basis of civilisation."

Works for me.

	03-09-2004 21:14									#461
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quote: Originally posted by muxec I think that Turkmenistan must be liberated. You know, terrorists can capture my university.... There are 10 armed guards, 2 on each entrance easy target for terrorists. Many students are policemen or soldiers but they generally come to the university without weapons or with small pistols only. Several come to university with M16 but they are scattered...

You're allowed to bring M16 into University?? What kind of crazy place is that?

And what do you do with them during the lectures?

	03-09-2004 21:14									#462
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quote: Originally posted by muxec Stalin would remove all Chechnians to Siberia... In fact there are a lot of uranium mines that require workforce.

He did that actually. They came back.

	03-09-2004 21:15									#463
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Do you know that many people in Russian government are enrolled illegal weapon trade with terrorists? Now you know. And they want this war! Who is responsible?

quote: He did that actually. They came back.

He did not remove all. And indeed he would not let them return.

	03-09-2004 21:17									#464
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quote: Originally posted by VetLegion You're allowed to bring M16 into University?? What kind of crazy place is that?

Israel.

	03-09-2004 21:21									#465
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quote: Last time they gassed half the hostages in their efforts to "settle" the crisis. So sorry, but I'm not really sharing your assumption that the silence is a deliberate tactic to safeguard lives. I'd rather believe they're clueless.

I think that's totally unfair. They settled the theater crisis as well as could be expected. They saved half the hostages. It's easy for you to sit in your easychair and criticize tactics you know nothing about.

	03-09-2004 21:24									#466
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quote: Originally posted by VetLegion You're allowed to bring M16 into University?? What kind of crazy place is that? And what do you do with them during the lectures?

There was a state of war during the latest 4 years here. One day our lecturer (metargel) came to uni just from the base and gave us lecture in physics in full uniform. At the end of the lecture he winked and said that his M16 provides an unique suicide option for those who did not understand the lecture. Nice joke, would you not agree? In fact every person can be reqruited to army for 21 days per year if he finished his service. The counrtry needs reserves.

	03-09-2004 21:29									#467
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quote: Originally posted by DanS I think that's totally unfair. They settled the theater crisis as well as could be expected. They saved half the hostages. It's easy for you to sit in your easychair and criticize tactics you know nothing about.

Exactly.

Almost 100% succesful large scale rescue operations a-la Entebbe cannot be achieved when you face suicide bombers. In the past, kidnappers knew that there are heavy odds against them, but they also knew that if they operate correctly they can achieve their goals and survive. Here we have people who already know and accept their own imminent death so they can much more damage.

	03-09-2004 21:32									#468
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Eli, imagine that terrorists capture TAU. Would our country be able to save your a..s?

	03-09-2004 21:40									#469
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quote: Originally posted by muxec Eli, imagine that terrorists capture TAU. Would our country be able to save your a..s?

Crazy scenario. The university is huge, you need battalion sized units to take over all of it quickly, and do it all in the center of Tel Aviv. So far, the Pal terrorists cant operate in groups much larger than 2.

	03-09-2004 21:49									#470
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quote: Originally posted by Eli Crazy scenario. The university is huge, you need battalion sized units to take over all of it quickly, and do it all in the center of Tel Aviv. So far, the Pal terrorists cant operate in groups much larger than 2.

OK, how many terrorists can capture the building that is closest to gate number 7?

	03-09-2004 21:54									#471
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I am having all kinds of malreactions to this. Emotions that I am usually able to overcome. I feel the need to enact terrible violence on the entire Chechen population. I am not that kind of person.

War sucks and being a vengeful human is hard not to do. Can't wait to have children and introduce them to this festering cesspool of life.

	03-09-2004 22:01									#472
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They'll eventually grow up and add to the festering cesspool of life, as we all do. Even these shitheads were children once.

	03-09-2004 22:05									#473
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Muslim fanatics do not value their children. 11-years old biys become suicide bombers. And they never were children, fanatics are not children.

	03-09-2004 22:26									#474
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My thoughts and condolences to the numerous victims of this tragedy, and their loved ones.

This is about all I can say at this point. I don't see how effective countermeasures should be taken, but then that's not my job either, thankfully. I have full confidence in the commitment of the Russian leadership when it comes to anti-terror campaigns, and I hope the "West" and Russia will be able to cooperate even closer in the future.

	03-09-2004 22:33									#475
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Can you imagine the furvor that would be created if this happened in the states?

	03-09-2004 22:36									#476
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Hi, FMK, btw.

	03-09-2004 22:40									#477
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quote: BESLAN, Russia — Zalina Dzandarova cradles her son Alan as he sleeps with his small face buried against her stomach. He is the child Dzandarova was able to save. The child she chose to save, really. It is the other one, little Alana, her 6-year-old daughter, whose image torments her: Alana clutching her hand, Alana crying and calling after her. Alana's sobs disappearing into the distance as Dzandarova walked out of Middle School No. 1 here Thursday, clutching 2-year-old Alan in her arms. Guerrillas armed with automatic rifles and explosive belts who are holding hundreds of hostages at the small provincial school in southern Russia allowed 26 women and children to leave. About a dozen mothers, like Dzandarova, were allowed to take only one child, forced to leave another behind. "I didn't want to make this choice," a stunned-looking Dzandarova, 27, said in the reception room of her father-in-law's house a few miles from the school. "People say they are happy that my son and I are saved. But how can I be happy if my daughter's still inside there?"

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...samotherchooses

	03-09-2004 22:45									#478
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quote: Originally posted by Field Marshal Klesh Can you imagine the furvor that would be created if this happened in the states?

Exactly.

	03-09-2004 22:50									#479
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quote: Originally posted by Field Marshal Klesh Can you imagine the furvor that would be created if this happened in the states?

WTC. Shock and awe, and than try to forget...

	03-09-2004 22:55									#480
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I'm pretty realistic about how effectively the US could deal with the situation if we were faced with it. Columbine was only 2 teenagers and they messed up the school pretty badly. Just imagine if they had an effective plan and well trained troops. We don't even have checkpoints that the Chechnyans would need to bribe.

Last edited by DanS on 03-09-2004 at 23:02