08-11-2004 06:45									#451
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'And now for something a little different', if the non-cricket-playing members will forgive the interruption ...
http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_dat..._07NOV2004.html

[English bashing ]
Now how does that quote go?
'Never will you see a more wretched hive of scum and villainy', only in this case, rather than Mos Eisley we'd be talking about .. mmm ... can't quite make out the name of the evil place ...


The last part of the article is faintly amusing too

quote: Chris Lewis, the England allrounder, made similar allegations a few months later, when he claimed that Khetrapal had offered him £300,000 to lose a Test against New Zealand. Khetrapal denied those allegations at the time.

Next we'll be hearing about how Bangladesh took huge bribes to throw the recent series against NZ.

[/English bashing]


In all seriousness though I'm not so sure I believe the numbers quite frankly - 300k [insert pound symbol] is an awful lot ...

	08-11-2004 06:53									#452
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quote: Originally posted by Havak The Wallabies were awful in the second half Finbar so I suggest you only watch the first 40.

How absolutely predictable of them!

quote: Excepting that one of the Scotland tries was scored by a lad I toured with when he was a Colt. Very pleased for the lad.

Drinking tour or playing tour?

quote: And Spreadbury had to play 48 mins in the second half to let Glaws score the try that gave them fake respectablity.

You've raised the bar for objective analysis with that one!

	08-11-2004 06:54									#453
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon It's so nice to see that phrase in use when, just for once, I'm not the recipient.

Your involvement was taken as read!

	08-11-2004 18:57									#454
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For some reason FSW is not showing any of these matches. All they're offering right now are review shows!

	09-11-2004 03:26									#455
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I could've sworn it was a major plank in John Kerry's platform that he would require every rugby match of note to be shown live on FSW.

	09-11-2004 03:49									#456
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Lions coach Sir Clive Woodward will spend a week with France at their training camp ahead of their Test match against New Zealand on 27 November.

Boasting about his recent successes against the All Blacks, no doubt. Still, at least he can't come away with blonde tips in his hair.

	09-11-2004 04:02									#457
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finbar - where ya been? I waited for you on Friday night.....

Saturday and Sunday night I was rutting.

	09-11-2004 04:48									#458
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quote: Originally posted by finbar I could've sworn it was a major plank in John Kerry's platform that he would require every rugby match of note to be shown live on FSW.

Perhaps Monsieur Latham should've promised something similar ...

	09-11-2004 05:05									#459
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse finbar - where ya been? I waited for you on Friday night.....

Check the thread. I posted late Friday arvo that I couldn't make it Friday night. Deadlines. Out of the way now, so I should be okay. I might even check in during the week. Can't tonight, though.

quote: Saturday and Sunday night I was rutting.

Too much information! I was working.

	09-11-2004 06:09									#460
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I said I rutted, I didn't say I successfully attracted any attention.

	09-11-2004 08:38									#461
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quote: Originally posted by finbar I could've sworn it was a major plank in John Kerry's platform that he would require every rugby match of note to be shown live on FSW.

Bah! Another politician making promises he can't deliver!

	09-11-2004 12:22									#462
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Hmmm. Well England has taken a bit of a gamble in putting Robinson in as captain (Wilco still off for a few more weeks apparently).
This was the same Robinson whose (admittedly scintillating) performances last year were due so much to his ability to befuddle the opposition regarding what he would do next - the primary ingredient being, however, that he didn't know either.
A fair quality in a winger but I'm not too sure it'll come off quite as well in a captain.

All of this being tested against that bastion of rugby prowess 'Team Canada', to put it into perspective, but still ...

http://www.planetrugby.com/Teams/En...ory_39623.shtml


In other news the Italians have managed to wrangle a passport for one of their Kiwi imports which gives them a total of 4 eligible to play.
Matching up against them NZ is apparently under some pressure to put most of the new 8 players into the starting lineup.
This won't be a problem of course because the AB coaching staff apparently has 'a cunning plan'.


I have a cunning plan too.

'To whichever supreme being is on duty this week please don't let us lose to the Italians!'

I'm just not sure which one I should put more faith in ...

	09-11-2004 13:12									#463
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Hello

Many of you rugby types probably haven't voted in this poll

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...887#post3420877

PROT provides an easy and convenient place to park lazy votes.

I might also point out that the PROT candidate has 3 sons who all play rugby and so might be considered the "unofficial" rugby candidate.

Last edited by Alexander's Horse on 09-11-2004 at 13:28

	09-11-2004 16:38									#464
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quote: I used the phrase 'exterior threat' solely in the geographical sense and the colonies banded together at the time solely because they were fighting a common enemy.

Don’t think I misunderstood at all then – the phrase ‘exterior threat’ was a sub-conscious reflection of your view of the conflict.

As for the taxation causal factor – go read some accounts from either side. It’s a conflict that has become hugely mis-represented over time.

The problem with trying to discuss it now sensibly is one of transference – our Americans friends assume they had the power than that they hold now. They simply cannot grasp the concept of Parliament refusing to fund a second (and larger) expeditionary Corps to retake an essentially ‘worthless and rebellious colony’. Such great foresight eh?

Nice to see you get it right in EU2 though.

Still time to close this one – and the post WWII issue – lest I get myself pointlessly worked up.

quote: can't quite make out the name of the evil place ...

Name it by all means – I may work in the City but I live in the posh part of the County.

Leicester has a huge population from a sub-continent origin so I have to say I believe the Kiwi skipper’s allegations on instinct.

[Kiwi bashing]
By the way Ravagon did you catch the result of the recent Test series between England and NZ? It would have taken more money than that to throw a game against that Kiwi side.
[/Kiwi bashing]

quote: Drinking tour or playing tour?

Mainly drinking – was one of the ‘responsible adults’ on that tour. Wouldn’t let me play against the 17 year olds.

quote: You've raised the bar for objective analysis with that one!

I could try to be objective about his effing reffing on the day – but my temper would get the better of me fairly quickly.

quote: This was the same Robinson whose (admittedly scintillating) performances last year were due so much to his ability to befuddle the opposition regarding what he would do next - the primary ingredient being, however, that he didn't know either.

Poor Jason – his rugby genius suffers for resembling a headless chicken in a barnyard at times.

Personally I am far more worried that Henry Paul has been named in the starting line up – Rabeni ran right through him for our first try on Saturday – his defence is, um, questionable.

In fact using Kiwi selection rules I am sure we can get Rabeni and the Tuilagi boys England qualified soonish?

But better news – Hooker Regan threw his rattle out the pram after not being selected for Canada and has retired throwing this barb at Andy Robinson – “I would like to thank the England coaches I have worked with previously and I have always enjoyed my time with England”.

Ouch! Did you spot the word that digs at Andy?

For what it is worth the very experimental line up is:

England team: Jason Robinson, (Sale Sharks - capt); Mark Cueto (Sale), Mike Tindall (Bath - vice captain), Henry Paul (Gloucester), Josh Lewsey (Wasps), Charlie Hodgson (Sale), Andy Gomarsall, (Gloucester); Graham Rowntree, (Leicester), Steve Thompson (Northampton), Julian White (Leicester), Danny Grewcock (Bath), Steve Borthwick (Bath), Joe Worsley (Wasps), Lewis Moody (Leicester), Martin Corry (Leicester).
Replacements: Andy Titterrell (Sale), Andrew Sheridan (Sale), Ben Kay (Leicester), Andy Hazell (Gloucester), Hall Charlton (Newcastle), Will Greenwood (Harlequins), Ben Cohen (Northampton).
This is not quite the side that will face the big boys I am sure –and I feel really sorry for young Harry Ellis who misses the game due to a slight Achilles problem. He should be fit for next week.

	09-11-2004 17:04									#465
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quote: Originally posted by Havak By the way Ravagon did you catch the result of the recent Test series between England and NZ? It would have taken more money than that to throw a game against that Kiwi side. [/Kiwi bashing]

[kiwi bashing]
Oh, we're onto cannon fodder now, are we? They've just arrived here to get some experience against a real cricket team. Oh, and I haven't closed off the code. Save having to open it again later.

quote: Personally I am far more worried that Henry Paul has been named in the starting line up – Rabeni ran right through him for our first try on Saturday – his defence is, um, questionable.

What sort of team is it? Paul has been tried before and found seriously wanting. Why pick someone who will never play against real opposition? Why not pick an up and comer? All you need is D. Luger to complete the quinella of hopeless players.

	09-11-2004 19:08									#466
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A serious answer (for once) - Henry Paul was tempted into Union by the liberal use of RFU money. I believe I am right in saying that, as with Robinson, the RFU pay a large part of their club salary (coincidentally explaining why neither joined a 'big' side).

Given that investment they are going to keep trying him to see if his potential ever fulfills. But as I remember his last try out against strong opposition (Paris 2002) I tremble in fear at the thought of his facing Tuqiri and Mortlock in a defensive capacity. Expect him to be dropped and Greenwood-Tindall to be back for the next game.

Luger should take the hint - the inclusion of Cueto pretty much closes the door on him.

And I know the Italians did a great job on Canada - but they have no chance against an AB side.

*edit* Looks like Ellis will be fit for 20th. Excellent news.

Last edited by Havak on 09-11-2004 at 19:24

	10-11-2004 05:29									#467
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quote: Originally posted by Havak [Kiwi bashing] By the way Ravagon did you catch the result of the recent Test series between England and NZ? It would have taken more money than that to throw a game against that Kiwi side. [/Kiwi bashing]

Heh heh. I saw that one coming a mile off. Still didn't help me very much in getting out the way though.

quote: In fact using Kiwi selection rules I am sure we can get Rabeni and the Tuilagi boys England qualified soonish?

I would come back with some smart-aleck comment but I rather fear it may come back to haunt me later if they do in fact 'England qualify'.


The team to face the Romans is out - 2 of the new guys starting and another pair on the bench -

New Zealand: 15 Mils Muliaina, 14 Rico Gear, 13 Conrad Smith, 12 Tana Umaga (Captain), 11 Joe Rokocoko, 10 Daniel Carter, 9 Byron Kelleher, 8 Mose Tuiali'i, 7 Richie McCaw, 6 Jerry Collins, 5 Norm Maxwell, 4 Chris Jack, 3 Carl Hayman, 2 Anton Oliver,1 Saimone Taumoepeau.
Replacements: 16 Corey Flynn/Keven Mealamu, 17 Greg Somerville, 18 Ali Williams, 19 Steven Bates, 20 Jimmy Cowan, 21 Luke McAlister/Aaron Mauger, 22 Ma’a Nonu.


Reading through the measures taken to fight off jetlag I'm just hoping the AB's will go ahead with the Haka. It half sounded as though they may replace it with dancing a jig instead as the last part of the program.

	10-11-2004 05:32									#468
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quote: Originally posted by finbar [kiwi bashing] They've just arrived here to get some experience against a real cricket team. Oh, and I haven't closed off the code. Save having to open it again later.

I'm hoping we'll be onto a new thread by then. In fact I intend to make sure of it.
I wish the Australian team all the fortune they had on the last day in India.

	10-11-2004 09:21									#469
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Expect him to be dropped and Greenwood-Tindall to be back for the next game.

Tuquiri, Mortlock, et al, will still fancy their chances against Greenwood.

quote: Luger should take the hint - the inclusion of Cueto pretty much closes the door on him.

Well, I'm sure he didn't volunteer. They picked him. The question is why.

	10-11-2004 09:25									#470
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon I'm hoping we'll be onto a new thread by then. In fact I intend to make sure of it. I wish the Australian team all the fortune they had on the last day in India.

Your skipper's blood tests have apparently ruled out malaria, but he still has some sort of Bangladeshi lurgy. His replacement as skipper - the left-arm tweaker - is your only spinner, and his effectiveness has been blunted by his need to be a stock bowler. OTOH, he probably would have bowled well on that wicket in Bombay. Then again I could've. That Michael Clarke took 6/9 speaks volumes for the wicket. Michael Kasprowicz was out, caught at leg slip, fending off a Harbijhan top spinner that jumped at his throat. One of the more amazing tracks I've ever seen.

	10-11-2004 13:09									#471
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quote: "The reality of history suggests that John Howard has about as much chance of becoming the Test captain as the Kiwis have of beating Australia."

A recent quote about the upcoming series.
It came from a journalist of course so it isn't worth the cost of the toilet paper it'd be printed on if in fact it were worth enough to be printed.
I'm still hoping for a change in the Australian test lineup anyway though.

Losing Fleming is a pretty big blow but I'm still hopeful.
His batting will be sorely missed.
Vettori hasn't done too bad a job captaining in the past IIRC - Yes he loses his edge a little when bowling 30+ overs in an innings but he can still tie batsmen up in knots when they're trying to score and many of the Australian batsmen don't like that at all.
I can't see us winning more than a single test but (with a fair number of kiwi tourists bringing the rain with them ) that might just be enough?
I remember the series a couple of years ago when nobody gave us a snowballs chance yet we came pretty close in the end.

	10-11-2004 13:48									#472
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Yes, that was when your batsmen showed incredible discipline and didn't play a ball they didn't need to. McGrath and Co kept pegging it outside the off stump, waiting for mistakes, and they rarely came. The Australians found a new maturity - tactically speaking - in India with their quick bowling. They didn't give Dravid or Laxman any room at all to unwind and thrash through the covers. They bowled at the stumps and tied them up with, for example, a very straight mid-on and two mid-wickets. The Indians had no answer.

	10-11-2004 14:00									#473
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Robinson may yet prove to be a bigger ****head than Clive.

Not only has he now picked a replacment openside who leaked penalties like a sieve against Tigers last Saturday but he also said this about Paul yesterday:

"He loves the big stage, that's why he came from league to union, because he wanted to play for England.

"Now he has earned the chance to start for England, I hope he plays to the potential that I know he has.

"We see him as a major threat in terms of his running ability, and also in terms of getting some width in our game. This is a great chance for him."

Major threat? He created nothing aginst Tigers as part of what was meant to be a hugely talented Glaws backline.

Words that may come back to haunt him as Henry gets bulldozed for the 15th time by the smallest of the Wallabies the week after (the week after)...

Last edited by Havak on 10-11-2004 at 14:12

	10-11-2004 14:28									#474
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I read all that. I was awaiting your response.

	10-11-2004 16:30									#475
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Well you know where I am coming from on the new coach - one godawful lucky Euro cup win with Bath does not an England coach make.

Just wait until you see the loose head he picked for the bench. The lad is a converted lock once tipped to replace Jonno in the England side (back in 2001/2002 so someone got that one wrong!) and is a big useless agressive lump IMHO. And a Sale player to boot - doubly damned.

	11-11-2004 01:42									#476
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Lions coach Sir Clive Woodward will spend a week with France at their training camp ahead of their Test match against New Zealand on 27 November. Boasting about his recent successes against the All Blacks, no doubt. Still, at least he can't come away with blonde tips in his hair.

You should note that your favorite blonde has not been selected.

The two halves are coming from Toulouse and Cédric Heymans has, at last, been incorporated into the French team, he is the man in shape from Toulouse. I have some reason to think that the Wallabies will regret it.

On the other hand, I don't understand why Rougerie has been prefered to Vincent Clerc which is playing very well since the beginning of the year.

This saturday will be very busy with Ireland vs. South Africa, Stade Toulousain vs. Racing Club de Narbonne and France vs. Australia.

	11-11-2004 06:21									#477
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Well you know where I am coming from on the new coach - one godawful lucky Euro cup win with Bath does not an England coach make. Just wait until you see the loose head he picked for the bench. The lad is a converted lock once tipped to replace Jonno in the England side (back in 2001/2002 so someone got that one wrong!) and is a big useless agressive lump IMHO. And a Sale player to boot - doubly damned.

I assume that's Sheridan?

	11-11-2004 06:32									#478
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin You should note that your favorite blonde has not been selected.

There's an IRB rule against retraités efféminés playing Test rugby!

quote: The two halves are coming from Toulouse and Cédric Heymans has, at last, been incorporated into the French team, he is the man in shape from Toulouse. I have some reason to think that the Wallabies will regret it.

Put it this way. If les grenouilles lose, every French supporter will be beating a path to your front door with axes in their hands.

quote: This saturday will be very busy with Ireland vs. South Africa, Stade Toulousain vs. Racing Club de Narbonne and France vs. Australia.

You forgot the Baby Fur Seals clubbing the Poms to death with baseball bats at Twickenham!

	11-11-2004 07:28									#479
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Jason Robinson's appointment as the first ex-rugby league player to captain England's union side amply proves how the previously insurmountable gulf between the codes has been bridged.

No, it proves that the England captaincy cupboard, post-J****, is bare.

	11-11-2004 13:56									#480
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quote: I have some reason to think that the Wallabies will regret it.

If they play like they did in the second half against Scotland France are going to decimate them.

quote: This saturday will be very busy with Ireland vs. South Africa, Stade Toulousain vs. Racing Club de Narbonne and France vs. Australia.

Forget those second division games – it is also Worcester-Tigers and England Canada in the Premier fixtures. Many thanks to Finbar for highlighting your oversight.

quote: I assume that's Sheridan?

Andrew Sheridan indeed. If he were fit I would pick Woodman over him – that’s how low I rate him.

Robinson does have trouble at loose I guess – the form player (Rowntree) is starting but all the usual cover is injured (Flatman, Woodman).

On the other side of lardy boy Julian White starts – and that should be interesting when he comes up against the Wallaby front row in future weeks – Whitey is often called one of the best scrummagers in Europe so that should test an outfit that struggled against a Tom Smith bereft Scot pack?

Vickery is fit and playing for Glaws – so where is he eh? The lad is not playing well enough to get selected really – wonder if he will figure the following weeks on rep alone?

quote: No, it proves that the England captaincy cupboard, post-J****, is bare.

In his defence Jason is doing a fairly decent job at Sale. He is certainly more successful at club level captaincy than Johnny golden balls.

Hodgson makes fly half again – his family will be delighted. Personally I am terrified.

Still 66% of the loose forwards starting are in superb form – and between them should be able to carry the penalty giving lump Hazell.

*I should point out here that, having worked there some time ago, the only good thing I have ever seen come out of Gloucester is the M5 heading north*