04-09-2004 01:23									#1
	Attackers seize Russian school II(continued) Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

As the previous thread reached 500 posts it was minged. Keep it here.

	04-09-2004 01:29									#2
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quote: Look at Afgani children who know to handle AK47 before they can read. And please read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavel_Morozov not good example, just to understand.

They weren't born this way, they are brought up this way. You're trying really hard to say I'm wrong when when I made my first comment there wasn't a right or a wrong and I wasn't looking for a debate.

However, I see you feel it helps your position if you never consider these people children. If they aren't children, nothing should stop you from bombing where they live.

Your response:

quote: With right education they would be, indeed.

Now who's the fanatic? Your position is ludicrous, and would never pass muster in any rational decision-making body. You just want to have the excuse to irradicate children if you think they may be a danger to you. It truely is revolting.

Perhaps the Chechens believe that by killing these kids in a school, they are preventing them from becoming Russian soliders that will threaten Chechnya down the line. You position is right in line with this.

	04-09-2004 01:31									#3
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Group of tyranic leaders educate them in this way. Terrorists are also victims. Victims of propoganda that brainwashed them from birth.

	04-09-2004 01:33									#4
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Its still an education, and they are still children, and children grow up to become adults that add to the festering cesspool of life.

And now we're back at the beginning.

	04-09-2004 01:36									#5
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Normal child has a period of zero responsibility, parantial love, belief in good world. Even the poorest Indian children do.

Reeducating is almost imposible.

	04-09-2004 01:40									#6
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You only think that's a normal child because you've been educated to think that way. The person who thinks a normal child is one that should be taught to kill Jews was educated that way.

Now I'm not defending that in any way...its just pointless to say that these aren't children.

	04-09-2004 01:53									#7
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We need a defenition. According to principles of social evolution we must define that killing people when not necessuary for survival is wrong. That we must judge one according to his actions, not nationality. That memebers of society must receive good according to their contribution.

Indeed it's wrong, it's just an example...

[Offtopic]
My friends say that i dance like a cow, why not accept me to your league?
[/Offtopic]

	04-09-2004 02:06									#9
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Well, I didn't use the best example...but you can bet many fundamentalists believe they are fighting for survival, such as the survival of a fundamentalist life. To them, not having a strictly fundamentalist society is not surviving fully.

How about a definition of child:

child
n. pl. chil·dren (chldrn)
1.) A person between birth and puberty

Therefore, anyone in this space is still a child, and still grows up to become an adult that adds to the festering cesspool of life.

[Offtopic]
Sure, just include something related to cows and music. If Guyenemar wanted in, with his avatar as the cowbell, he could.
[/Offtopic]

	04-09-2004 02:16									#10
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From my dictionary (Oxford dictionary for non-native speakers)

pu-ber-ty
1)The stage at which a person becomes physically able to become a parent



If one can **** at age of 8 he is not a child, right?
When one is impotent from birth he'll remain child forever, right?

We need socio-cultural defenitions.

	04-09-2004 02:45									#11
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Socio-cultural definitions? So that one group of people can say that the children in another group of people aren't really children, and thus shouldn't be considered child-killers for irradicating them?

	04-09-2004 02:51									#12
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous Socio-cultural definitions? So that one group of people can say that the children in another group of people aren't really children, and thus shouldn't be considered child-killers for irradicating them?

Let's say that right social organization leads to low number of miserable people and high rate of welfare growth. It's an universal definition, I think.

	04-09-2004 03:28									#13
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There's a 500 post limit?
And picture thread?

	04-09-2004 03:34									#14
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man, more than 200 people dead in the operation that ended the siege .

	04-09-2004 03:40									#15
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http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europ...hool/index.html

	04-09-2004 03:45									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia man, more than 200 people dead in the operation that ended the siege .

	04-09-2004 03:52									#17
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous Now I'm not defending that in any way...its just pointless to say that these aren't children.

Who gives a ****? If they're an active lethal threat, kill 'em.

If they're not, deal with them in another manner.

	04-09-2004 04:39									#18
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This is a case where a Russian 2nd Amendment would have helped the situation.

	04-09-2004 04:49									#19
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quote: Originally posted by muxec Reeducating is almost imposible.

You act like they are actually brainwashed, like hypnotized. They have merely grown up in a different type of environment. They had different role models. They learned different values. Their ability to reason has not diminished.

	04-09-2004 04:53									#20
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Who gives a ****? If they're an active lethal threat, kill 'em. If they're not, deal with them in another manner.

Did you just get thru playing civ or something? This is the real world. You can't just go around killing those who threaten you, especially if they're kids. Christ!

	04-09-2004 05:27									#21
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"Bombs were strung all over the gym," one teenage girl told state television. "Tape came unstuck on one and it blew up."
"There were two big explosions," a women in her forties said. "We started pushing all the children out of the windows ... Everyone who was there started pushing them out."
"Authorities said they had been forced to launch a rescue operation when the gunmen opened fire on fleeing children. "

	04-09-2004 05:30									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Did you just get thru playing civ or something? This is the real world. You can't just go around killing those who threaten you, especially if they're kids. Christ!

If a child makes the decision to arm themselves, whether it be with a firearm, explosive, or some other weapon, they are a threat. Their age no longer matters when they try to harm others.

I saw some AP photos of the aftermath of all this and...

Regardless of Russia's politics past and present, this cannot be justified. This is an atrocity.

	04-09-2004 05:33									#23
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Who gives a ****? If they're an active lethal threat, kill 'em. If they're not, deal with them in another manner.

Yeah, see, if you read the original post that got me into this crazy discussion, you'd see that I didn't mean to argue this in the first place. I guess I was drawn into it.

I said children grow up to add to the festering cesspool that is life; I wasn't talking about a specific group of children, but all children. All children will add, when the become adults, to the festering cesspool of life: questioning whether to bring a child into this world isn't the best course of action.

	04-09-2004 05:35									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Verto If a child makes the decision to arm themselves, whether it be with a firearm, explosive, or some other weapon, they are a threat. Their age no longer matters when they try to harm others.

Ah. So you kill them.

edit: You expanded on wht MtG said. He merely said the children have are threatening. You said they take action. In such a case you can't ethically kill them except in self-defense and in a war situation.

	04-09-2004 05:47									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious He merely said the children have are threatening.

In what world does "active lethal threat" equal "have are threatening"? Not mine, I hope...

Are you saying that you'd be fine and dandy with a minor posing an active lethal threat to you by, e.g., pointing a loaded pistol at you? Or are you just trying to misrepresent the arguments of other posters?

	04-09-2004 06:00									#26
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There is a huge difference between what MtG was saying and what muxec was saying.

MtG: Active lethal threat, ie, they're attacking you

muxec: They may become a threat, meaning they're no longer considered children, meaning it is fully right to bomb where there are children who may become a danger

	04-09-2004 06:06									#27
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I'll go on the record as saying that I disagree with indiscriminately bombing children just because they might grow up to pose a threat to whatever cause is being defended at the moment, and that I also disagree with misrepresenting another poster's opinions with blatant schmuckery -- i.e., by lambasting somebody's schmuckery I do not intend to defend another's warmongery, and vice-versa.

	04-09-2004 06:10									#28
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When I suggested that he defended that, he certainly didn't deny it

Him:

quote: Look at Afgani children who know to handle AK47 before they can read. And please read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavel_Morozov not good example, just to understand.

Me:

quote: They weren't born this way, they are brought up this way. You're trying really hard to say I'm wrong when when I made my first comment there wasn't a right or a wrong and I wasn't looking for a debate. However, I see you feel it helps your position if you never consider these people children. If they aren't children, nothing should stop you from bombing where they live.

Him:

quote: With right education they would be, indeed.

Certainly looks like he has no problem irradicating them (as I posted at least twice, and he never backed away from that) because he doesn't consider them children.

	04-09-2004 06:14									#29
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger In what world does "active lethal threat" equal "have are threatening"? Not mine, I hope... Are you saying that you'd be fine and dandy with a minor posing an active lethal threat to you by, e.g., pointing a loaded pistol at you? Or are you just trying to misrepresent the arguments of other posters?

I'm not talking about pointing a gun to your head. I'm talking about carrying guns and talking about killing you. There are plenty of right wing nutcases that do that in the US and we don't kill them unless they attack us, and they aren't even children. I hope they aren't anyway.

	04-09-2004 06:19									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious I'm not talking about pointing a gun to your head.

Then are you still talking about an "active lethal threat," or are you instead talking about a "have are threatening"?