14-10-2004 02:38									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Cyrion

	14-10-2004 09:32									#92
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Ok, I need a bit of help.

I placed the save I've been using (founded.sav) into the mapcopy folder. I then opened up the dos prompt and accessed the program. Now according to the instructions I am suppoed to use the command "f" to signify that I want to change fertility. Here is what I enetered and this is the result:

C:\Mapcopy>mapcopy founded.sav -f:ZERO
Backing up.
Loading File: founded.sav
X Dimension is: 140
Y Dimension is: 100
Map Area is: 7000
Flat Earth is: 1
Map Seed is: 29216
locator x dim is: 35
locator y dim is: 25
Read civ view map.
Read terrain map
Wrote header
Wrote civ_view_map
Wrote terrain map


Now, I think that typing "-f:ZERO" will result in the fertility for all terrain tiles to be brought down to zero, making the AI not want to found cities. Has this happened?

I've posted the save below.

EDIT: SAVE DELETED, proceed down the thread.

Last edited by Harry Tuttle on 19-10-2004 at 08:27

	14-10-2004 18:40									#93
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(I don't have MGE, sorry)

That should have done it... However, that would of course also affect the other saloons. So this would make Gold Gulch only playable as a multiplayer game (right?).

	14-10-2004 19:05									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Mercator (I don't have MGE, sorry) That should have done it... However, that would of course also affect the other saloons. So this would make Gold Gulch only playable as a multiplayer game (right?).

Yes, it should. I'll try to switch the individual types of terrain fertilities tonight. The instructions leave a lot to learn.

	14-10-2004 22:21									#95
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The city Grid (when you press control+g) is all white rectangles, and it is impossible to differenciate the city grids.

	14-10-2004 23:01									#96
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The Double Diamond Saloon has signed a Partnership with the Sioux against me.

Some US infantry W of the settlement decided to go camping in the mountains and got lost. (killed himself)

	14-10-2004 23:21									#97
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quote: Originally posted by N35t0r The Double Diamond Saloon has signed a Partnership with the Sioux against me.

Can you negotiate with the Sioux? If so, check the events.txt for this:

@IF
NEGOTIATION
talker=Double Diamond Saloon
talkertype=HumanOrComputer
listener=Sioux Nation
listenertype=HumanOrComputer
@THEN
@ENDIF

	15-10-2004 07:23									#98
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Eh, no, i can't....

I'll ckeck the events though....

Yeah, all the events are there OK.

	15-10-2004 07:37									#99
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quote: Originally posted by N35t0r Eh, no, i can't.... I'll ckeck the events though.... Yeah, all the events are there OK.

Hmmm, well you SHOULDN'T be able to negotiate with the Sioux which is good, but I think the problem with the AI negotiating with the Sioux might either lie with the events being comp/human.

This is not really a problem as the Sioux only serve as a nuisance in the hills, but I'd like to know if any city styles change suddenly. The tech "Saloon" is the derivative for all saloon civs and if by chance the Sioux get this civ it could screw up the game. Vice versa with "Sioux Nation" and of course the techs that lead to the modern era city style.

Let me know if anything happens that seems overly strange, beyond "The Sioux and Saloon whatever declare war".

	15-10-2004 09:03									#100
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No, so far nothing has happened.

I bet it's some sort of hard-coded thing that makes civs ally against you if you are the human player (The XXX Pact ones). Because they haven't exchanged tech or anything so far...

	15-10-2004 17:09									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Harry Tuttle Hmmm, well you SHOULDN'T be able to negotiate with the Sioux which is good, but I think the problem with the AI negotiating with the Sioux might either lie with the events being comp/human.

To avoid that, there is the "human or computer" (or something like that) command, wwhich actually works (unlike the "anybody")

That should prevent even an AI controlled civ to contact the Sioux!

quote: This is not really a problem as the Sioux only serve as a nuisance in the hills, but I'd like to know if any city styles change suddenly. The tech "Saloon" is the derivative for all saloon civs and if by chance the Sioux get this civ it could screw up the game. Vice versa with "Sioux Nation" and of course the techs that lead to the

And to make 200% sure those "Saloon" or "Sioux" techs are never traded, make them "no, no"!

	15-10-2004 22:32									#102
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I am now positively sure that they haven't talked with each other... i've cheated in some spicy techs to both civs, so that they would trade with each other and they don't.

Cyrion: the events are indeed coded using HumanOrComputer.

	16-10-2004 03:19									#103
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quote: Originally posted by N35t0r I am now positively sure that they haven't talked with each other... i've cheated in some spicy techs to both civs, so that they would trade with each other and they don't. Cyrion: the events are indeed coded using HumanOrComputer.

So it must be as you supposed: they are hardcoded to ally, but can't talk anyway!

Just finished my game, my train just "landed" in Chicago!

I'll wait for your update, Harry, to start my next playtest!

Please hurry...

	19-10-2004 08:59									#104
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Ok, I've been screwing around with this mapcopy utility. I've figured out how terrain squares can be copied from a map file to a save file. It's a piece of cake. Problem is, I need to find out how a square with low fertility, like say "glacier", can be copied onto a save file without actually copying the glacier terrain tile.

The readme eludes to copying fertility, but what I don't get, is how do I copy a grassland tile with low fertility to a grassland tile with high fertility, thus making the receiving save file grassland tile have low fertility?

What am I missing here?

I've attached the text file for the readme.

Attachment: readme.txt
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	19-10-2004 12:51									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Harry Tuttle Ok, I've been screwing around with this mapcopy utility. I've figured out how terrain squares can be copied from a map file to a save file. It's a piece of cake. Problem is, I need to find out how a square with low fertility, like say "glacier", can be copied onto a save file without actually copying the glacier terrain tile. The readme eludes to copying fertility, but what I don't get, is how do I copy a grassland tile with low fertility to a grassland tile with high fertility, thus making the receiving save file grassland tile have low fertility?

You want to set the fertility of grassland/plains tiles in the outlying areas of the map to zero, right? You also want to make some of the town terrain types fertile? If so, you're going to have to copy fertility data from a .sav file to a .sav file – copying from a .mp file won't do it. Why? All fertility values in a .mp file are zero. The CALC and CALCALL options recalculate fertility values based on your final terrain types and so aren't useful here. BTW, you'll find that grassland and plains will have initial fertility values ranging from 8-15 (on a scale of 0-15) and the rest will be zero. The AI (supposedly) won't build on anything below 8. These values will be modified once players start building.

Steps:
1. Open up your saved game in Civ2's Map Editor.
2. For all those grassland/plains tiles on which you don't want the AI to build, replace them with a zero-fertility terrain type. Do the reverse for fertile town tiles.
3. When you're done editing the map, save it.
4. Start a new normal game with this new map. Pick Romans. Civ2 will set new fertility values. Don't build. Save the game as NewFert.sav.
5. Type the following command line for MapCopy: mapcopy NewFert.sav Scenario.sav –s –t –bc. This will copy the fertility data only, using the ADJUST option to lower the values of tiles which fall within city radii.
6. Done.

	19-10-2004 18:19									#106
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Ahaha, I knew I was missing a step. I had turned all this land to glacier but had only saved it as a map file. Thank you very much, I will try it out tonight.

	20-10-2004 07:28									#107
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Ok, I have done as Catfish has said. Also, I have found a solution to the ANYBODY problem. Not really a solution, more like a compromise, but hey, life's a *****

Changes:

1) Pioneers have been given the settler flag. They pop-up, you bribe them, and you settle a new saloon. Fertility has been modified to create fertile ground around the old camp and the new camp only. The AI will not (gotta playtest this folks) settle anywhere else but on the camp sites and immediate area.

2) As a compromise because of the lack of event space I have eliminated all of the random terrain that pops up. Yes, this sucks, but I plan to include the random terrain in the ToT version (Yes, I have seen the path to enlightenment). Now, the "new" camp will be there when you start the game. It will be unsettled, open for all to build new saloons.

3) Because of the new space from the elimination of the create terrain events there are now multiple, civ specific events for the unitkilled trigger. Got a bonus from finding those golden nuggets? Well now everyone can too.

4) Fixed one minor grammar problem in the game.txt.


Right now I am going to complete the sounds (a lot have been converted to format already), work on the saloon owner unit graphics, and fix any playtest problems as they arise.

Now, hopefully, on deity level, the AI will be a bit more aggressive as fertile saloon space is limited. Somebody tell me if this happens, because I will be pleased.

Also, I do have room for more events, so suggestions are welcome.



EDIT: ZIP Updated 11:11pm EST 10/22/04 - get it at beginning of thread.

Last edited by Harry Tuttle on 23-10-2004 at 08:02

	20-10-2004 07:51									#108
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I've spent a few hours getting familiar with Gold Gulch and have a couple items that may be of interest.

Is there any way that you can change the turn interval to be a day.... day1, day2, etc. The day/hour are confusing and saved games do not form a natural sequence.

The second one is a spoiler so could you please check you PM.

	20-10-2004 08:14									#109
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Ok, I changed one thing in the 20 minutes the zips were uploaded.

1) The Sioux and Nature should now have Democracy as a government.

I'm waiting for Agricola to digest my answer to his PM, so don't be surprised if this changes again.

TIME STAMP: 11:20 PM 10/19/04

EDIT: also fixed the "diamond" graphic where the white square described by N35t0r obscured viewing. I switched it with the old graphic. Won't affect anything but the graphics.

Last edited by Harry Tuttle on 20-10-2004 at 08:21

	20-10-2004 08:26									#110
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quote: Originally posted by AGRICOLA Is there any way that you can change the turn interval to be a day.... day1, day2, etc. The day/hour are confusing and saved games do not form a natural sequence.

I'll think about it... Ok, that's on my todo list.

	20-10-2004 08:51									#111
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Ugh... Ok, one last thing I just changed. Thank you Agricola.

Last update of the night:

1) All Sioux units are made obsolete by the Saloon tech. If you are a saloon and steal the Sioux Nation tech you cannot build Sioux units.

Woooh... Out of breath.

	20-10-2004 11:37									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Harry Tuttle 1) All Sioux units are made obsolete by the Saloon tech. If you are a saloon and steal the Sioux Nation tech you cannot build Sioux units.

If you make the "Sioux Nation" tech a "no, no", I'm pretty sure it can't be traded or stolen!

And I'll start the playtest tonight!

	20-10-2004 16:05									#113
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After 4 separate downloads I can't seem to unzip either of the two goldgulchbeta2.zip files posted on this thread. There is a consistent error message that "end-of-central-directory signature not found".

I had no difficulty with the earlier Gold Gulch downloads and, as a test, have just now successfully downloaded and unzipped a small units.zip from Panzer Battles on the River Chir and the How Few Remain zip.

Is anyone else experiencing this difficulty?

	20-10-2004 21:28									#114
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Just downloaded the update so I will try it now. Btw, when will we see the salon owner units? Asking because you said they will be humans.

	20-10-2004 23:14									#115
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quote: Originally posted by AGRICOLA After 4 separate downloads I can't seem to unzip either of the two goldgulchbeta2.zip files posted on this thread. There is a consistent error message that "end-of-central-directory signature not found". I had no difficulty with the earlier Gold Gulch downloads and, as a test, have just now successfully downloaded and unzipped a small units.zip from Panzer Battles on the River Chir and the How Few Remain zip. Is anyone else experiencing this difficulty?

I could do it perfectly.... What are you using to unzip?

	20-10-2004 23:29									#116
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WinZip v8.1

EDIT:

Waal podner, Ah jes' tried it agin. Ah'll be goldurned iffen it don't work. Ah guess good ol WinZip ain't gonna get shot tween the eyes this time.

Cain't figger out whut happen. Goldurned modern gadgets. Cain't trust them atall. Gimme my hoss 'n gun, them Ah trusts.

Thanks fur the encouragement.

Last edited by AGRICOLA on 20-10-2004 at 23:53

	21-10-2004 15:42									#117
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The AI doesn't build any cities, as they never bribe Pioneers. I was the only one having cities on the other side of the river, until constant thunder storms occupied my cities.

I know the scen is not for mp so it shouldn't be a problem.

	21-10-2004 17:46									#118
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I share Arthedain's concerns about the lack of new AI saloons when the scen is played as a SP game.

quote: Originally posted by Arthedain The AI doesn't build any cities, as they never bribe Pioneers.

My game is in week 23 (my start year, turn increment and Legend have been changed to weeks), and the AI is unable to bribe Pioneers because I've bribed 3 hostile whores and think that the fourth one is cornered in hilly country.

Changing the tech requirements for Laborer so that they become buildable much earlier may be the only way to get the AI to build new saloons. I know that this kills one of the unique features of the scen for SP, but there may be no way around it.

I'm going to change the prerequisite for Laborer to 'Alp' and will report on what happens.

Otherwise, things seem to be OK so far. IMO, the 3 square high mountains look super.

	21-10-2004 18:25									#119
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Yeah, I think you guys are right. I think the laborers might need to come earlier so as to not give any one player an advantage too early in the game, even if it is MP.

@ Arthedain: As for the thunderstorms, you say they are occupying your cities? Hmmm, I better turn them back to air units. At least I knwo they're attacking now!

	21-10-2004 18:54									#120
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I was wondering about storms occupying cities. My RULES shows them to be domain=1, air.

I don't particularly like the idea of removing bribing from the game, it is such a unique feature. Perhaps the cost of Laborers could be increased to better balance the 70 shield building cost and the $2000+ cost of bribing a Pioneer.

Oh no! Extrapolating a bit into the future, the Pioneer problem will be repeated with the US Cavalry and any other units that need to be bribed in order to acquire them.

Should this perhaps be strictly a MP scen? That may solve most of the problems.