23-09-2004 20:38									#31
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@ thread.

-Arrian

	23-09-2004 20:41									#32
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quote: Are you saying that your right to persecute homosexuals is equal to MrFun's right to be homosexual?

No. I'm talking more about abortion here. If Mr. Fun is prochoice can't I be justified in accusing him of being against equality and liberty?

	23-09-2004 20:41									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Can you show me one difference between the platform of the communists and the platform of the Democrats? The two are remarkably similar.

You can't possibly be serious. I take it you've never actually looked at the CPUSA's platform.

	23-09-2004 20:42									#34
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When i refer to communists I refer to the hardcores like Agathon. But yes the Democratic party doesn't have much in the way of differences. Their members even go and meet with communist leaders.

I also find it interesting how you refer to the religious right (I happen to be an atheist) trying to take away freedoms when in actuality it is the left doing this. Who runs around with attorneys telling people how they can act? The ACLU supports groups like NAMBLA and then turns on the boyscouts and tries to dismantle them. The ACLU is all for flying a crescent in public, but don't you dare put a cross out there. Who's the one trying to impose their views on people? I would take the religious bible thumping right any day over the little boy loving left.

	23-09-2004 20:44									#35
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quote: You can't possibly be serious. I take it you've never actually looked at the CPUSA's platform.

I am serious.

There are many similarities between the Democratic platform and the Communists.

Show me where they disagree and how they disagree.

	23-09-2004 20:47									#36
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Agathon, hardcore? You do not have a clue!

	23-09-2004 20:54									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Ned "The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth show the role of the individual in history. It wasn't Republican strategists who finished Kerry off two months before the election; it was the American people.

Mass movements over individualism? WTF? Is it just me, or have Republicans been turning into Marxists ever since Ronald "Member of the Communist Party" Reagan got elected?

	23-09-2004 21:08									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi I am serious. There are many similarities between the Democratic platform and the Communists. Show me where they disagree and how they disagree.

Your comment is so rediculous on the face of it, I can't believe I'm even responding - but what the hell.

First, to cut you off at the pass, I know you'll try to drag up similarities. Before you do that, take a look at the Republican platform and see if you can't find some similarities between it and the CPUSA platform. I guarantee there are quite a few.

So, here's some choice bits from the CPUSA platform I don't think you'll find the Democrats agreeing on:

- stop procurement and testing of nuclear weapons
- ratify the Kyoto treaty
- repeal NAFTA
- remove military recruiters from public schools and campuses
- public financing of elections
- replace the “winner take all” election system with Instant Runoff Voting and Proportional Representation which allow voters to rank candidates by choice and elect the candidate with the most overall support
- end monopoly control of the media
- restore tax rates on the rich and corporations to 1970 levels
- abolish the death penalty
- extending unemployment benefits time
- guarantee full dedicated federal funding for quality, equal public education from pre-K through college.
- enact the DREAM Act and Student Adjustment Act to increase access to education for immigrants.
- increase Pell Grants. Repeal provisions that deny funds to students with drug convictions.


And that's just a start. I can pull out more if you want.

	23-09-2004 21:13									#39
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If stupid were a disease, Ann Coulter would have died decades ago.

	23-09-2004 21:14									#40
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kontiki, you're not supposed to use facts. these are republicans we are talking about.

	23-09-2004 21:14									#41
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I agree with her. She's a brilliant woman.



someone stop me. there must be some cure for trolling.

but seriously, she does have good points. I'm not too familiar with Cronkite- he was before my time. But it's hard to believe he said that thing. Though Ronald Reagon saying that was out of line. My respect for him has dropped.

	23-09-2004 21:18									#42
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quote: - stop procurement and testing of nuclear weapons - ratify the Kyoto treaty - repeal NAFTA - remove military recruiters from public schools and campuses - public financing of elections - replace the “winner take all” election system with Instant Runoff Voting and Proportional Representation which allow voters to rank candidates by choice and elect the candidate with the most overall support - end monopoly control of the media - restore tax rates on the rich and corporations to 1970 levels - abolish the death penalty - extending unemployment benefits time - guarantee full dedicated federal funding for quality, equal public education from pre-K through college. - enact the DREAM Act and Student Adjustment Act to increase access to education for immigrants. - increase Pell Grants. Repeal provisions that deny funds to students with drug convictions.

You're joking right? Democrats agree with everything on there except for maybe the monopoly on media control (Why give up what they basically own?) and the repeal of NAFTA (although there are some that want that). Otherwise everything on there is pretty much standard operating procedure for the Democratic party.

	23-09-2004 21:22									#43
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quote: Originally posted by MalevolentLight You're joking right? Democrats agree with everything on there except for maybe the monopoly on media control (Why give up what they basically own?) and the repeal of NAFTA (although there are some that want that). Otherwise everything on there is pretty much standard operating procedure for the Democratic party.

Then you'll no doubt have an easy time quoting the relevant parts of the Democratic platform that confirms that. In case you have trouble understanding, that's the issue at hand.

	23-09-2004 21:28									#44
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What exactly is the democratic platform at this point? Basically everything on that list has been pushed for in the last 10 years. The democratic party platform basically changes based on popular demand. The best way to determine the democratic party platform is based on the way the democrats vote and what they have said.

	23-09-2004 21:31									#45
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quote: - stop procurement and testing of nuclear weapons

Yup, I see the Democrats doing that.

quote: - ratify the Kyoto treaty

Same here.

quote: - repeal NAFTA

Same here.

quote: - remove military recruiters from public schools and campuses

Same here.

quote: - public financing of elections

Okay. This is a difference, however elections are already partially public financed, so it really isn't a difference.

Are they saying that the only dollars that should be spent during an election should come from the public purse?

quote: - replace the “winner take all” election system with Instant Runoff Voting and Proportional Representation which allow voters to rank candidates by choice and elect the candidate with the most overall support

Another difference.

quote: - end monopoly control of the media

ML's point.

quote: - restore tax rates on the rich and corporations to 1970 levels

Democrats favour this.

quote: - abolish the death penalty

Same here.

quote: - extending unemployment benefits time

Same here.

quote: - guarantee full dedicated federal funding for quality, equal public education from pre-K through college.

Same here.

quote: - enact the DREAM Act and Student Adjustment Act to increase access to education for immigrants.

This is a difference. Aren't the Democrats trying to increase restrictions and controls on immigration?

quote: - increase Pell Grants. Repeal provisions that deny funds to students with drug convictions.

I don't see the democrats opposing this.

	23-09-2004 21:32									#46
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quote: and the repeal of NAFTA (although there are some that want that).

Kerry's in favour of repealing NAFTA.

	23-09-2004 21:33									#47
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quote: Originally posted by MalevolentLight What exactly is the democratic platform at this point? Basically everything on that list has been pushed for in the last 10 years. The democratic party platform basically changes based on popular demand. The best way to determine the democratic party platform is based on the way the democrats vote and what they have said.

Thank you for your useless opinions. Now please quote from the Democratic platform - I'll even give you the website:

http://a9.g.akamai.net/7/9/8082/v00...004platform.pdf

Again, the issue at hand was the similarities (or lack thereof) between the Democratic platform and that of the Communists. Frankly, I scraped something off the bottom of my shoe this morning that I care more about than your opinions.

	23-09-2004 21:36									#48
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Personally, I'd expect the Democrats to govern to the right of their actual platform and the Communists to the Red of their actual platform. Eh.

	23-09-2004 21:37									#49
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http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/

For the Democratic platform

	23-09-2004 21:38									#50
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Ben, see my response to ML. I don't care what you think the Democrats want, or what you may be able to pin on one Democrat somewhere in the food chain. You said that their platforms were nearly identical, and I'm calling you on it. At a minimum, why don't you try to back up your "Yup, I see Democrats doing that" type comments?

	23-09-2004 21:39									#51
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Now, this is Kerry on energy.

quote: Together, Americans will be freer and stronger when we break our dependence on foreign oil. Today, we consume 2.5 million barrels of oil per day from the Middle East, where instability has pushed prices to record highs. These soaring energy costs are burdening middle-class families with higher gas prices, and our dependence on Middle East oil is putting our national security at risk.

Canada is foreign oil. Maybe not the middle east, but if Kerry is for reducing the dependency of the US on foreign oil, then he will also be in favour of protecting american jobs through the repeal of NAFTA.

	23-09-2004 21:40									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/ For the Democratic platform

How convenient, you actually linked to it yourself. Well, then go ahead and pull out the parts where they want to repeal NAFTA, ratify Kyoto, remove military recruiters, etc.

	23-09-2004 21:40									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi No. I'm talking more about abortion here. If Mr. Fun is prochoice can't I be justified in accusing him of being against equality and liberty?

Ah ok. Yes, you can.

	23-09-2004 21:43									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Now, this is Kerry on energy. Canada is foreign oil. Maybe not the middle east, but if Kerry is for reducing the dependency of the US on foreign oil, then he will also be in favour of protecting american jobs through the repeal of NAFTA.

So you're now going to infer what their platform is based on your extrapolation rather than actually quoting their platform?

	23-09-2004 21:43									#55
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quote: As president, John Kerry will cut taxes for businesses that create jobs here in America instead of moving them overseas. John Kerry and John Edwards will also stand up for workers by enforcing our trade agreements.

How does he plan to do that, when such trade agreements cause American jobs to leave the US?

	23-09-2004 21:45									#56
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Even better comparison would be one between CPUSA's document Socialism USA and Democratic Party's, well, anything, considering Socialism USA lays out their big vision, the end result they claim they're striving towards. Considering it includes nationalization of every business that isn't single-person, one might have some difficulties finding equivalent Democratic documents...

...though I'm sure someone will be willing to stretch support for some particular environmental or labor regulation to actually mean virtual control over all industries. You know, in that lovable yet frightening manner which specifies any and all government functions not approved by Murray Rothbard as dreadfully Marxist, including ones proposed by those known communists Adam Smith, John Locke and Milton Friedman.

	23-09-2004 21:46									#57
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quote: So you're now going to infer what their platform is based on your extrapolation rather than actually quoting their platform?

Like ML, what their platform says, particularly for the DNC is not necessarily the best estimate of what they are going to do.

Read the platform. They have a much more roundabout way of talking about their platform points, rather than hammering out the points as in the Communist platform.

And besides, I notice you have totally evaded two issues where the platforms are most like each other, gay marriage and abortion.

The Communist party and the Democrats are one on these issues.

	23-09-2004 21:48									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi And besides, I notice you have totally evaded two issues where the platforms are most like each other, gay marriage and abortion.

If all it takes to be a communist is to agree with the CPUSA on two issues, then I'd be surprised if the Republican party weren't also a bunch of closet commies.

	23-09-2004 21:51									#59
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i prefer to think that the fascist party and the republican party are one and the same, and if there was no ACLU, or libertarian party, we'd long have become a nazi dictatorship.

restrict rights? check
discrimination? check
mock trials of dissidents? check
closed courts? check
imperialism based on unfounded fears? check
your papers please. check

seig heil!

	23-09-2004 21:51									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi And besides, I notice you have totally evaded two issues where the platforms are most like each other, gay marriage and abortion. The Communist party and the Democrats are one on these issues.

I haven't checked the Commie platform, but the Democrats are against gay marriage.