23-10-2004 22:12									#211
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I say let the launcher make the call.

	23-10-2004 22:17									#212
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I'm begining to like the second scenario....nuclear weapons are dangerous in the wrong hands.

	23-10-2004 22:35									#213
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

GM, please specify the rules, can I launch nukes and declare war at the same turn?

	23-10-2004 23:31									#214
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you can launch nukes wihtou declaring war...

	23-10-2004 23:34									#215
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quote: Also, the obligatory world map:

ha!

-
and as I said in the post above- in the past people have nuked others without declarations of war...

	24-10-2004 01:54									#216
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It is not clearly stated in the rules.

I'm going with:
You can nuke someone that you are not at war with, but like the conventional sneak attack, you are limited to nuking only the adjancent cities.

You cannot declare and fire either to get more.

	24-10-2004 02:00									#217
	Get a bigger avatar today!

SC, wouldn't you be mind if i change my order once more?

	24-10-2004 02:35									#218
	Remove this text

but it's an unconventional sneak attack- how about you just limit it to 2 nukes or one nuke per round? Since nukes are international ballistics... if more were sent, allegedly, the person targeted would know that tehy were coming... therefore they could prepare.

I would argue that it doesn't matter if a player is close or far... just limit it to 1-2 nukes per player sent.

	24-10-2004 06:06									#219
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Orders due on Monday...change as you wish...

DC, I'm sticking with the sneak attack rules, limits get strange.

	24-10-2004 11:14									#220
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

The flight time of nukes (10-15 minutes) is insignificant to the length of turns (100-1000 years). Keep it as it is.

	24-10-2004 13:23									#221
	Remove this text

I think that we need a new FAQing thread about Society V rules.

	25-10-2004 06:59									#222
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Orders sent.

	25-10-2004 08:30									#223
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Orders sent with the hope that others realize that I am no longer a threat and not worth the trouble it would take to finish me off at this point.

Regardless, today is a good day to die
* Sparrowhawk

	25-10-2004 08:50									#224
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Help! If you change your orders, that is cool, but resend the whole bunch, please, not just the change.

	25-10-2004 08:54									#225
	Increase Your PM Length

I don't know whether to laugh or not...only 5 players in the last game and I had notes and printouts, schedules and spreadsheets and still got confused...revised orders and corrections, I sympathize....and also laugh at your plight (no offense intended)

	25-10-2004 09:00									#226
	Remove this text

Sent.

Why is everyone so wont to make me look like the bad guy? It's not very nice...

	25-10-2004 18:42									#227
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Okay, I've had second thoughts about the nukes situation.

In reality, you do not have to be adjacent to someone to nuke him, hence neither will you have to be in this game. So no war declaration will be needed to nuke. You will be at war with that person afterwards.

If the person that you are nuking, has any stockpiled nukes, they will be sent automatically in retaliation.

(For next game [proposal]) anyone who nukes is automatically at war with everyone else on the map for two turns (aka no trading) due to environmental reasons.

In reality, nukes are more of a deterrent than an offensive weapon. I'd like to see a game where people build nukes, but are hesitant to use them.

Oh and due to the new nuke ruling, you may change your orders, if needed; I'll process tomorrow.

	25-10-2004 19:53									#228
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ack. I'm too confused at this point- just go with my original orders-

	25-10-2004 20:10									#229
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

same here

	25-10-2004 21:16									#230
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Accept my last complete orders, please.

	25-10-2004 21:30									#231
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud ack. I'm too confused at this point- just go with my original orders-

Sorry, wasn't trying to confuse anyone. In fact, it seemed that everyone was already following those rules anyway.

	26-10-2004 21:35									#232
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Turn 10: "Fade to black; the map that is."

Reminders to players:
1. Trade income is affectred by governmental bonuses. Do not forget to calculate that during your turn.
2. You can only build one SS component during one turn.
3. You should always include orders that deal with unexpected things like spies and such. So instead of stating you wanted 511 armies to attack, you may want to be more generic and say 70% of my armies.

Trade:
13 Caravans from Muxec[13R] to Smiley[13R] - 4394
13 Caravans from Whoha[13R*] to Dark Cloud[13R] - 4394
13 Caravans from Smiley[13R] to Muxec[13R] - 4394
13 Caravans from Vlad Antlerkov[13R] to Whoha[13R*] - 2197
12 Caravans from Jonny[14M] to Sparrowhawk[13M] - 3276
2 Caravans from Jonny[14M] to Muxec[13R] - 728
13 Caravans from Sparrowhawk[13M] to Jonny[14M] - 3549
13 Caravans from Dark Cloud[13R] to Whoha[13R*] - 2197
NOTE: I am not rounding up fractional gold due to goverment bonuses. Please plan accordingly *Denotes governmental change.

Wonder Building
None

Espionage
Muxec sends 2 spies to bugger Jonny's Tech research.
Muxec sends 1 spy to sell narcotics to Johny's teenagers who are about to join the army.
Muxec sends 1 more spy to tell Sparrowhawk's settlers scary stories about the lands they are about to move to (sabotage city foundation).
Smiley sends a spy to counter espionage on Jonny.
Vlad Antlerkov keeps 1 spy at home defending his army production.
Vlad Antlerkov keeps another spy at home defending his trade.
Jonny keeps a spy at home defending his trade.
Sparrowhawk's spy defends his city building.
And Dark Cloud's spy stays at home to defend his army production.

**Espionage end game:
Jonny loses monies that were spent on tech, armies and nukes.
Muxec's spy was neutralized by Sparrowhawk's spy.
Smiley's spy suicide bombed Jonny's spy to no avail.

City building
More cites were slated to be built than land was available. I used this formula to determine how many you got. [(your request)/(all requests)]*empty land.
I ignored most location requests in an attempt to minimize borders.
Smiley built 6, Vlad built 4, Sparrowhawk built 21, and Dark Cloud build 3.

Gifts
Muxec shows Smiley the ways of Fusion Power (tech 15)
Jonny shows Sparrowhawk the ways of The Laser (tech 14).
Dark Cloud shows Whoha the ways of The Laser (tech 14) and Fusion Power (tech 15).

Nukes!
Muxec builds 3 nukes and sends two at Jonny (B8) and one at Sparrowhawk nearest city. (War^2)
Smiley builds 7 nukes and sends 3 of them Jonny's way (B8). The other 4 are targeted for map squares C7, D7, E7, F7 wiping out 4 of Sparrowhawk's newly built cities. (War^2)
Jonny builds 3 nukes, but they do not seem to work, so he has to scrap them (SPY).
Dark Cloud builds 4 more nukes and sends them to A8. He sends his stockpiled nuke to Sparrowhawk's last city??? what???

Battles
Jonny ties to build up another large army to try to finish Vlad. Unfortunately for him, all his new recruits found my stash and were never seen from again. Moral: Drugs are bad...Mkay.
As a result of the deserters, he gives orders to his generals to send more armies than he has at Vlad. His general got confused and decided that the best course of action would be to stay home and watch the third game of the world seires on the TV.

Sparrowhawk tries to take advantage of Whoha's governmental change and sends 200 (tech 14) armies at Whoha's 220 (tech 15) defenders. Whoha successfully defends.
Sparrow loses 16 armies and Whoha loses none.

Governments:
Whoha is now a Republic.

Wonders:
Jonny (Vlad Anterkov) (Gambecube64) - G11 - Tower of Babel.
Smiley - K2 - Colosseum. - Obsolete
Vlad Antlerkov - K11 - Trojan Horse.
Vlad Anterkov (Gamecube64) - G10 - Acropolis.
Whoha (Sparrowhawk) - B6 - Jihad. - Obsolete
Dark Cloud (Ljube-ljcvetko) - K6 - Silk Road.
Sparrowhawk (Dark Cloud) - F6 - Trans-Siberian Railroad.
Whoha (Sparrowhawk) - A7 - National Rifle Association.
Whoha (Sparrowhawk) - B7 - Mafia.
Jonny - B11 - University of California.
Jonny - A12 - NASCAR.
Jonny - A10 - The KGB. - Obsolete
Jonny - C12 - The Majestic-12 Program.
Jonny - C10 - Galactic Overlord.

Tech prices:
Fusion Power (tech 15) is now 1045 gold.

The Flux Capacitor (tech 16) is still 3948 gold.
Inductive Pulse Field (tech 17) is still 6388 gold.
Nano Diodes (tech 18) is still 10336 gold.
Subline Warp fields (tech 19) is still 16724 gold.

Wars
Muxec versus Jonny
Muxec versus Sparrowhawk
Smiley versus Jonny
Smiley versus Sparrowhawk
Sparrowhawk versus Whoha
Sparrowhawk verus Dark Cloud
Jonny versus Dark Cloud
Jonny versus Vlad Antlerkov

Misc.
All empires have now discovered espionage. Their spys will be available next turn, that is, the turn after you dicover the tech or build the wonder.

I've added a column to the chart that should the amount of SS parts that are built. Reminder: 4 components are needed to win. Tech 15+'s wonders can be built and cost tech level squared. They can be used to ruin one of your opponents already built SS parts.

code:

 
    
    
 
      
Society
 
      
Goverment
      
Cities
 
      
Tech
 
      
Army
 
      
Nukes
 
      
SDI
 
      
SS Parts
 
      
Gold
 
    
 

    
    
 
      
Muxec
 
      
Republic
 
      
8
 
      
15
 
      
304
 
      
0
 
      
0
 
      
1
      
8270
 
    
 

    
    
 
      
Whoha
      
Republic
  
      
15
 
      
15
 
      
220
 
      
0
 
      
0
 
      
0
      
12820
 
    
 

    
    
 
      
 Smiley
      
Republic
  
      
36
 
      
15
 
      
354
 
      
0
 
      
0
 
      
0
      
9902
 
    
 

    
    
 
      
Vlad Antlerkov
      
Republic
      
12
  
      
14
 
      
533
 
      
0
 
      
0
 
      
0
 
      
1228
 
    
 

    
    
 
      
Jonny
 
      
Monarchy
 
      
25(13)
 
      
14
 
      
310
 
      
0
 
      
0
 
      
1
      
4805
 
    
 

    
    
 
      
Sparrowhawk
 
      
Monarchy
 
      
16(4)
 
      
14
 
      
470
 
      
0
 
      
0
 
      
0
      
4518
 
    
 
 
    
 
      
Dark Cloud
      
Republic
 
      
14
 
      
15
 
      
268
 
      
0
 
      
2
 
      
0
      
8472
 
    
 

Attachment: society_map_blank1.gif
This has been downloaded 27 time(s).

	26-10-2004 22:20									#233
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Wait, Johny could build SS Part as to use Uni of California he needs this tech discovered by someone else before the turn with his orders.

Can you please post governmental change of trade formula here?

quote: Dark Cloud builds 4 more nukes and sends them to A8. He sends his stockpiled nuke to Sparrowhawk's last city??? what???

How much spies did Sparrow put to protect his expansion phase?

	26-10-2004 22:39									#234
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

While I am certain Spaced could answer this better then I could, I will attempt to give my view on these issues:

quote: Originally posted by muxec Wait, Johny could build SS Part as to use Uni of California he needs this tech discovered by someone else before the turn with his orders.

Not quite true...Jonny could use University of California to build SS Parts if anyone had researched Tech 15 (as several of you had). Because the Science Research Phase comes before the phase for the construction of SS parts he was able to take advantage of this.

quote: Originally posted by muxec How much spies did Sparrow put to protect his expansion phase?

I used one spy to defend City Production.

Interesting Turn and not one that I suspected I would survive

Should make for an interesting end game (though not for me, I am already figuring on being an also ran in this one.

* Sparrowhawk

	26-10-2004 22:46									#235
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: I used one spy to defend City Production.

I see... It's because of You-Know-Who, he did not send promised spy to your settlers.

P.S: I already know that R->R trade is doubled.

	26-10-2004 22:49									#236
	Inflate your Upload Space

Actually I don't know who, it seems that everyone is allied against Jonny and I am collateral damage, but if you-know-who is Whoha, he could not send a spy as he was in a revolution turn

* Sparrowhawk

	26-10-2004 22:54									#237
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quote: Originally posted by Sparrowhawk Actually I don't know who, it seems that everyone is allied against Jonny and I am collateral damage, but if you-know-who is Whoha, he could not send a spy as he was in a revolution turn * Sparrowhawk

I do not expect to survive this turn... Majestic 12 is overpowered.

	26-10-2004 22:59									#238
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Johny has an another option... He can win by building 17th and 16th lvl wonders.

	26-10-2004 23:31									#239
	Put an end to popups!

What about the 15th level wonder?

Trade for you on your turn is
caravans*[(your tech*their tech*your gov bonus)-(your tech+their tech)]

They will get on next turn:
caravans*(your tech*their tech*their gov bonus)

I think that majestic-12 should make the nukes require 2 SDIs, and Galactic overlord should take 2 (preferred) or 3 nukes.

I'll come up with some names for the 15-20 wonders in a bit....If you have ideas.....me likey!

	27-10-2004 00:23									#240
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My suggestion is "Builder names wonder"