06-10-2004 07:44									#181
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Final score:

Edwards: B-
Cheney: C

Edwards and Cheney got a bunch of good hits on each other early in the debate. The second half of the debate - on domestic issues - was utterly boring though. Stylistically, Cheney sounded like he was going to eat children after the debate, and Edwards butchered a few sentences.

Edwards was able to more than than hold his own against Cheney on policy - even foreign policy, so Edwards wins in the expectation game. Also, Edwards put Halliburton front and center, possibly making it into an issue covered by cable news.

So, a win for Edwards. Not a big one, but a win nonetheless.

	06-10-2004 07:44									#182
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar I think not. It's a big party, and at best Edwards is going to have a ticket which floundered against Bush to his name.

That's a bold prediction. The floundering, that is. This is going to be a close, close election, and either ticket could take it. Really, really close.

But regardless, it's hard to see Edwards becoming President. If Kerry wins, he'll have to succeed Kerry as Veep, which is hard. And if Kerry loses, he'll be completely out of the public eye, without any public office. He'd have to move to another state and run again for the Senate.

Obama. That is who is gonna be the Dem nominee a few elections from now.

	06-10-2004 07:45									#183
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Yep, Obama will mop the floor with Edwards in the primaries.

	06-10-2004 07:46									#184
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo So, a win for Edwards. Not a big one, but a win nonetheless.

Not even close. Cheney clearly won this debate.

	06-10-2004 07:47									#185
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO Not even close. Cheney clearly won this debate.

I can see an argument being made for Edwards winning*, but I agree: Cheney did win the debate, if only by an "average" margin.

*Well, no, not really

	06-10-2004 07:47									#186
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Yep, Obama will mop the floor with Edwards in the primaries.

Obama is definately a rising star, but Edwards can play to the solid South. You will see both in the democratic future.

	06-10-2004 07:48									#187
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar I can see an argument being made for Edwards winning*, but I agree: Cheney did win the debate, if only by an "average" margin. *Well, no, not really

I agree that he didn't dominate, but he did clearly win.

	06-10-2004 07:49									#188
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On CNN, Carlos Watson thought Edwards was more likely to influence the undecided voter.

Of course, he also scored Bush as the winner in the first debate, so I think he's just batshit.

	06-10-2004 07:49									#189
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Keep in mind that in a lot of states, Southern Democrats are largely black.

	06-10-2004 07:49									#190
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer That's a bold prediction. The floundering, that is. This is going to be a close, close election, and either ticket could take it. Really, really close.

They were already floundering in August.

I'm not by any means calling a Bush victory. I think it's very even. But they really struggled to get where they are now, and they should be winning by 15 points. Doing marginally better than George W. Bush is not an achievement.

	06-10-2004 07:50									#191
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer On CNN, Carlos Watson thought Edwards was more likely to influence the undecided voter. Of course, he also scored Bush as the winner in the first debate, so I think he's just batshit.

	06-10-2004 07:50									#192
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I missed some of the middle, but from what I saw I'd definately give the edge to Cheney. He was more focused and he flowed much better. Edwards sounded like he was stringing together memorized sound bites rather than responding to the question or Cheney (but at least he had a hell of a lot more sound bites to string together than Bush so he wasn't anywhere near as hellishly repetitive). Again and again he brought up things completely out of left field that got really annoying.

Would definately give Cheney the win in the first half and thought that Edwards recovered a bit and came fairly close to evening it up in the second, but still if you're honest you've got to give it to Cheney.

	06-10-2004 07:51									#193
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar I'm not by any means calling a Bush victory.

I am.

	06-10-2004 07:51									#194
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quote: Originally posted by Boshko I missed some of the middle, but from what I saw I'd definately give the edge to Cheney. He was more focused and he flowed much better. Edwards sounded like he was stringing together memorized sound bites rather than responding to the question or Cheney (but at least he had a hell of a lot more sound bites to string together than Bush so he wasn't anywhere near as hellishly repetitive). Again and again he brought up things completely out of left field that got really annoying. Would definately give Cheney the win in the first half and thought that Edwards recovered a bit and came fairly close to evening it up in the second, but still if you're honest you've got to give it to Cheney.

Everything in this post is extremely accurate.

	06-10-2004 07:54									#195
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar I'm not by any means calling a Bush victory. I think it's very even. But they really struggled to get where they are now, and they should be winning by 15 points. Doing marginally better than George W. Bush is not an achievement.

I'd agree with you there.

If the Democrats can not manage to beat this president, with this record, then they are completely and utterly ****ing hopeless.

	06-10-2004 07:55									#196
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Cheney was the one who brought stuff up out of left field. What was that rant about education in the question about jobs?

	06-10-2004 07:55									#197
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I agree, except that Cheney didn't do quite as well as Kerry did in his debate - Kerry really oblierated Bush in the first debate, but Cheney did well enough in this debate.

	06-10-2004 07:57									#198
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No WMD
Abu Ghraib
Osama not captured
Recession


Any one of those four could let a competent team easily take down Bush. However, it's not happening.

	06-10-2004 07:57									#199
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quote: Originally posted by debeest Cheney was the one who brought stuff up out of left field. What was that rant about education in the question about jobs?

Certainly there is no corelation between education and jobs.

	06-10-2004 07:57									#200
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Giancarlos score:

Here are my scores for the two candidates

Cheney - 80% - Slightly dry, but very effective and spoken in very well terms. He was very effective at poking at Edwards immature unorganized style. Attacked Edward's Senate Record incredibly effective when he brought up his Senate record and Edwards Senate Record

Edwards - 55% - Very unorganized, though he did bring up some points. He for the most part lost the debate and lost a chance to gain a few points, but did not win at all.

	06-10-2004 07:58									#201
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka Giancarlos score: Here are my scores for the two candidates Cheney - 80% - Slightly dry,

COMMIEE!!11!!1!1

	06-10-2004 08:00									#202
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I agree with Plato.

	06-10-2004 08:00									#203
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I agree with BK. :B:

	06-10-2004 08:04									#204
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar I agree with BK. :B:

Igri de l'eventisi i MSN.

And Americans certainly dont seem to see the correlation between education and jobs

	06-10-2004 08:04									#205
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I agree with who ever agrees with me

	06-10-2004 08:05									#206
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I agree with the same people as Imran

	06-10-2004 08:06									#207
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I agree with who ever agrees with me

Imran
Communism
Comrade Imran

	06-10-2004 08:09									#208
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Pekka

Though what impressed me more was that the moderator was a complete moron. She insulted both debators, argued with them, and spoke as though she had a golf ball in her mouth... She should never moderatorate a debate ever again, IMO.

	06-10-2004 08:09									#209
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Comrade Imran
Fuhrer Imran
Citizen Imran
The Man, Imran

	06-10-2004 08:12									#210
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Ted Striker