06-10-2004 07:27									#151
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Jaguar, this is the last answer from me and then I'm pass this subject.

"Allied. Would you suggest that the French resistance wasn't allied with us?"

They were helping Allied. They were their own entity. They were part of the effort but they weren't part of the actual allied entity.

	06-10-2004 07:27									#152
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Ted Striker

Ted Striker

	06-10-2004 07:29									#153
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w00t! Let's move on.

Edwards on education: "Half of Black High School students drop out under this administration. Half of Hispanic High School students drop out."

Why does this have anything to do with Bush? We've had this problem for decades.

	06-10-2004 07:30									#154
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer Oh who ****ing cares?! Even if we go with Cheney's definition, which is totally valid, that just means that a whole shitload of Iraqis are dying. This is supposed to be a good thing?

With total casualties then shooting up to 1800 from around 1100. A smaller percentage of US casualties ("only" 55%), but not a smaller number.

quote: Seems pretty even so far. Both have landed some pretty good zingers and some solid arguments, and both have stumbled on occasion. Slight edge to Cheney at the moment, simply for stumbling slightly less than Edwards. What is abundantly clear is that Bush is obviously the worst debater of the four, and that the debate is much more interesting when the candidates actually, you know, debate. I'd actually rather Cheney be President over Bush, for the simple reason that it makes me uncomfortable that the President of the United States of America is a complete ****wit.

I think Cheney comes off on top here. He just seemed stronger, Edwards seemed unorganised, falling back almost verbatim on what Kerry said in the last debate, not to mention that Cheney was *much* more aggressive Not major pwnage, but I think Cheney won this debate.

	06-10-2004 07:30									#155
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer Oh who ****ing cares?! Even if we go with Cheney's definition, which is totally valid, that just means that a whole shitload of Iraqis are dying. This is supposed to be a good thing? Seems pretty even so far. Both have landed some pretty good zingers and some solid arguments, and both have stumbled on occasion. Slight edge to Cheney at the moment, simply for stumbling slightly less than Edwards. What is abundantly clear is that Bush is obviously the worst debater of the four, and that the debate is much more interesting when the candidates actually, you know, debate. I'd actually rather Cheney be President over Bush, for the simple reason that it makes me uncomfortable that the President of the United States of America is a complete ****wit.

* Jaguar didn't start it.

	06-10-2004 07:31									#156
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oh and Jaguar, it is 5.30AM in here. I'm sorry if I don't feel like debating this issue. More so because I think I might be better at english at this point than you. You do not even counter my claim of French Resistance being their own entity, and furthermore you spin it saying 'well weren't they part of allied?'. You just don't grasp my point at all, which leads me to believe that you don't grasp the whole way of thinking I'm trying to explain. You can say that's a **** way of thinking, but so far it has been universally agreed on, Wikipedia agrees on it, so you and Mr. Cheney can agree on that together and make it a fact of your own.

I'm OUT.

	06-10-2004 07:31									#157
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka Jaguar, this is the last answer from me and then I'm pass this subject.

	06-10-2004 07:31									#158
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I would agree.

I give Cheney the edge on this one, but nowhere near to the extent that Kerry beat Bush in the first debate.

	06-10-2004 07:32									#159
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar w00t! Let's move on. Edwards on education: "Half of Black High School students drop out under this administration. Half of Hispanic High School students drop out." Why does this have anything to do with Bush? We've had this problem for decades.

IIRC, the figures are actually less than they were under Clinton. (Which to be fair were less than Bush I and Reagan). This trending in the correct direction and has nothing to do with the current administration. This is an attempt by Edwards to play a race card...pathetic.

	06-10-2004 07:32									#160
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Jaguar, well .. you fired back on me

Ok, let's break this crap.

in the big picture I say Cheney might have won this one. Happy?

	06-10-2004 07:33									#161
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w00t!

Pekka
Angry Pekka
Ted Striker

	06-10-2004 07:34									#162
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer I would agree. I give Cheney the edge on this one, but nowhere near to the extent that Kerry beat Bush in the first debate.

Clearly Cheney is more comfortable with this level of debate. Edwards is a newbie afterall. It helps that Cheney has "right" on his side.

	06-10-2004 07:36									#163
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Jaguar, yeah sorry I got little upset. Not because of you but because of the debate and I felt like debating it and I was missing the actual debate on TV plus I'm tired and I have a long day to go plus my car is stuck on the parking long because the alarm system decided to screw me up and I have to take a long walk tomorrow morning to the car repair shop.. and blaablaablaa.

	06-10-2004 07:36									#164
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar With total casualties then shooting up to 1800 from around 1100. A smaller percentage of US casualties ("only" 55%), but not a smaller number.

A very valid point. Not the point under discussion, but a very valid one, nonetheless.

	06-10-2004 07:36									#166
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Pekka

	06-10-2004 07:37									#167
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar

The road to Kerry's house??

	06-10-2004 07:38									#168
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Hmmm... anyone notice that Cheney did not thank Edwards at the start of his closing statement? By design, or just his crankiness coming out?

I can't actually remember if Bush thanked Kerry, either... I knew there was something about his closing statement that struck me as odd, but it might have been that gawd awful mountain-climbing/valley-of-peace metaphor.

	06-10-2004 07:38									#169
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PLATO; YEAHHH! It's my thread! BOOYAA!



Ok, I think Cheney won the finishing comment as well. I'd say... Cheney 63 Edwards 37.

	06-10-2004 07:38									#170
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO A very valid point. Not the point under discussion, but a very valid one, nonetheless.

My posts are slightly delayed as I'm having a "viewing party" with a few friends (I know, thats kind of sad ), so I quote someone, scan briefly what they say, and respond.

	06-10-2004 07:38									#171
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Trolling through pictures.

	06-10-2004 07:39									#172
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar My posts are slightly delayed as I'm having a "viewing party" with a few friends (I know, thats kind of sad ), so I quote someone, scan briefly what they say, and respond.

There's a lot of X-posting going on anyway.

	06-10-2004 07:39									#173
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Well, this debate doesn't make any difference, but Cheney is a champ.

I think Edwards will be the democratic nominee for president sometime in the future. I'm sure he was an excellent trial lawyer.

	06-10-2004 07:40									#174
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I think not. It's a big party, and at best Edwards is going to have a ticket which floundered against Bush to his name.

	06-10-2004 07:41									#175
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63-37 is a bit lopsided to me. I'd probably score Kerry-Bush along those lines. This I'd say Dick 55, John 45.

	06-10-2004 07:41									#176
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quote: Originally posted by DanS I think Edwards will be the democratic nominee for president sometime in the future. I'm sure he was a fine trial lawyer.

Much yet to learn, but I agree. He may represent the future. It may be 2012 or 2016 before he will get his shot however.

	06-10-2004 07:42									#177
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If anyone finds internet polls on who won, post em here.

	06-10-2004 07:43									#178
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar I think not. It's a big party, and at best Edwards is going to have a ticket which floundered against Bush to his name.

Being on a losing ticket has been a springboard to the Presidentcy more than once.

	06-10-2004 07:43									#179
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Cheney 41 Edwards 59

	06-10-2004 07:44									#180
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer 63-37 is a bit lopsided to me. I'd probably score Kerry-Bush along those lines. This I'd say Dick 55, John 45.

Yeah, I'd probably give Cheney a little more. It wasn't a massive victory (not Kerry-Bush level) but it was a victory nonetheless for Cheney.