14-05-2005 01:16									#451
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quote: Colonel Googlie strode back into the Conference chamber, and took his seat, looking visibly annoyed. He rose, and addressed the Conference: "The Federation has an announcement to make: We will honour the Truce recently signed between the Federation and the Corporation We will honour a Truce between the Federation and the Gaian Union, provided we have their acceptance of rights of passage through the canal separating Hive lands from Gaian lands, if ever these waters should again fall under Gaian control." The Colonel turned to look squarely at the Conference chairman: "But we are perturbed at the duplicity of the Data Angels. Even as they twist interpretations regarding the Federation's right to control access to the University Protectorate, they are, behind our backs, negotiating deals with the University. We find that conduct unacceptable, and advise all parties that this action has abrogated any deals or agreements made between the Federation and the Data Angels. We now withdraw from this Peace Conference, as we judge its objectives have been met." Sweeping up his documents and data crystals, the colonel turned and stalked from the chamber

	14-05-2005 05:59									#452
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quote: Originally posted by Snoddasmannen What's the next project for us if we miss out on the AV, the Cyborg Factory? (= instant elite units )

I think so. But I just updated the tech choice simulators with this year's tech acquisitions, and I fear we may not get to MMI first. I noticed if the Angels acquire Cyberethics (which they probably will - if not from us then from the PKs after scratching together the necessary cash), they will be able to switch research to MMI now they have Neural Grafting.

Same with the Corporation btw. If they get Neural Grafting (which they're currently researching) and jack up their research, they'll no doubt get MMI soon too.

On the short term military speaking us getting MMI later isn't a disaster as choppers have been toned down , but it would mean someone could snatch the Cyborg Factory from before our eyes.

	14-05-2005 06:10									#453
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie I'd say that's a strong probability. ... So I'd move my initial comment from "strong probability" to "almost 100% certain"

Wow great sleuthing.
(I don't really know what the word "sleuthing" means, but you often use it in the covert ops data acquisition context, so... )

quote: Originally posted by Googlie Hmm - another possibility, though, is that the Angels linked an AA and got Adapt Doc, then traded it to the PK's for Neural grafting.

Hmm, I assumed the Angels got Neural Grafting from the Gaians, and Lal researched Adaptive Doctrine.(?)

On a side note, if this is true, makes you wonder why the Gaians already gave Neural Grafting to the Angels but not the Corporation.

	14-05-2005 06:43									#454
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Let's hope we get MMI with our AA (although MMI is a level-6 tech. I think we'd be more likely to get a level-5 that we're missing)

	14-05-2005 21:06									#455
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Let's hope we get MMI with our AA (although MMI is a level-6 tech. I think we'd be more likely to get a level-5 that we're missing)

thats hoping for a alot
I hate blind research

	14-05-2005 21:49									#456
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LOL - we're playing "directed research" but you're right - cashing in an AA is just like playing "blind" - it's a bit of a lottery

	16-05-2005 05:39									#457
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oh sorry didn't know. I can't seem to get the files working right in my version of SMAX. All the faction graphics are messed up and the colors are all weird (spartan not = black).

	18-05-2005 11:11									#458
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Angels have offered to trade Neural Grafting for Cyberethics, straight up

We're in no hurry to get it (other than we want to cash in that AA, and don't want NG as the cash-in) as we'll either get it from the PDL or from Zak, after he gets it eventually from lal

I suggest we stall for a turn to see if we do get it through the (just completed) Planetary Datalinks, and if not, then we can discuss executing the trade next turn

They reiterate that the Ascetic Virtues deal stands as negotiated.

So we are at an ethical crossroads ............

	18-05-2005 12:59									#459
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Well, the tech trade on its own is less than interesting for us, and we might as well tell them that.

And we need to tell the new guy to use the embassy. PMs are tedious to handle and can cause misunderstandings if not posted in full.

	18-05-2005 20:55									#460
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie They reiterate that the Ascetic Virtues deal stands as negotiated.

But provide no reason?

	18-05-2005 21:33									#461
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Unfortunately for us, they need not provide any reason. The deal was done, so no matter what we say, they can just sit there, silently calling our bluff (if it is one...). The question arises: Who should get the project, and what would the consequences be?

If we build it, we take serious diplomatic damage. Can we live with that? As much as I hate to admit it, I think not just yet. On the other hand, improving our Police rating would be very good for the popbooming...

If the Angels build it, we get a fast-growing far-away faction, that is not-very-hostile towards us. Well, not openly hostile, but then again, the long way might be the most important thing preventing them...

If Morgan builds it, we get another target for our raids. BUT, we also strenghten them, helping them get out of the hole we put them in with... our raid. Oh, the irony...

Hey, maybe we should let the Gaians build the Ascetic Virtues? It would not help them much anyway, while keeping the project out of the hands of Morgan or the Angels. Can we even do that?

	18-05-2005 22:00									#462
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Brilliant .......................

quote: Originally posted by Modo44 Hey, maybe we should let the Gaians build the Ascetic Virtues? It would not help them much anyway, while keeping the project out of the hands of Morgan or the Angels. Can we even do that?

Hmm - Spartan altruism at work here?

I can see it now:

"Dear Friends :

We at Sparta Command are getting concerned that the Gaian Union is falling behind in the technology race, and risks becoming irrelevant on Chiron.

We would like to remedy that, and offer you the opportunity to buy/trade from us the technology Planetary Economics, and with it the rights to build the Ascetic Virtues SP (This will increae your POLICE rating to a par with the other factions, and allow you substantial growth in the next few decades)

And our terms are reasonable for such a unique opportunity:

Treaty, 250 credits (which can be paid in up to 5 instalments), and the undertaking that you will not onward trade that technology to any 3rd party. As well, we would require formal acceptance of our right to broker any deals between our protectorate, the University, and any other faction.

Interested"

See if that turns their crank?

	18-05-2005 22:11									#463
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Well, no harm trying, right? They just might have some hidden resources to actually build it. And even if not, we can surely use the cash.

	18-05-2005 22:51									#464
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 Well, the tech trade on its own is less than interesting for us, and we might as well tell them that. And we need to tell the new guy to use the embassy. PMs are tedious to handle and can cause misunderstandings if not posted in full.

I've sent him the URL and password

And second thoughts on Cyberethics. The A's must be one or two turns from getting it, and they have NG, so if we trade them CyberE, they'll then be just a turn or 2 away from MMI and the CF

I'd rather trade them CyberE and Plan Econ for NG and MMI, and the promise that they'll not build the CF in return for our keeping our commitment not to build the AV - plus a commitment from them not to onward trade Plan econ to any 3rd party

Meanwhile, if we can get a deal from the Gaians re Plan Econ (and maybe Morgan as well?) we can set off a multifaction race for the AV, with lots of wasted minerals when the winner gets it and the loser either has to sit on an instabuilt SP, or cash in

(And the deal with the G's and M's would also entail their not building the CF)

	18-05-2005 23:00									#465
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Well, if we can get everyone to promise not to build the Cyborg Factory, that would be great. Even more so if we can make some of them waste resources. The thing is, if only one of them disagrees or banks out of a deal, we get screwed. What of the possibility of the Gaians building Ascetic Virtues? What can we offer to Morgan for their agreement? The reduction of the Modo Doctrine?

Last edited by Modo44 on 18-05-2005 at 23:06

	19-05-2005 00:06									#466
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I'd tie them in (especially if we sell Plan Econ to them) something like:

quote: Proposed Bilateral amendment to the MoDo Doctrine between the Federation and the Corporation WHEREAS: The Corporation agrees to pay to the Federation the sum of 250 energy credits and the Corporation undertakes not to trade Planetary Economics to any third party and The Corporation agrees not to build the Secret project, the Cyborg Factory and the Corporation acknowledges the right of the Federation to be the sole means of the Corporation contacting the Unibversity, however such contact is initiated then in recognition of these undertakings: The Federation agrees to a sea border between the Federation and the Corporation, and the University and the Corporation equidistant between the two respective continents in question and The Federation will transmit the technology of Planetary Economics to the Corporation and The Federation undertakes not to build the Secret Project the Ascetic Virtues

	19-05-2005 00:21									#467
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That sounds interesting. They might go for it.

I expect the Angels to be the hard nut to crack. Plus, if we take Ascetic Virtues from them, they will no doubt try to steal the Cyborg Factory in return...

	19-05-2005 02:21									#468
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(Moved - actually copied - it to where it belongs - the Sparta-Morgan relations thread)

	19-05-2005 02:34									#469
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How about posting an embassy message:

quote: Dear Data Angel Colleagues: The Junta has thought long and hard about the issue of the Ascetic Virtues SP, and have the following proposal to make: We will renew our commitment not to build the AV, and will facilitate your acquiring it through the following proposed deal: The Federation will renew its undertaking not to build the AV The Federation will transmit to the Data Angels the technologies of Cyberethics in 2171 and Planetary Economics in 2173 in exchange for which The Data Angels will transfer the technology of Neural Grafting to the Federation in 2172 The Data Angels will switch their research to Mind Machine Interface, and transmit same to the Federation as soon as possible, but no later than the year it is researched The Data Angels will undertake not to build the Cyborg Factory SP the Data Angels will acknowledge the right of the Federation to control all contact - however initiated - between the University and the Data Angels Codicil: However, should the Data Angels ever declare or maintain Vendetta with the Federation, then all prior deals are abrogated If we can agree on these headings, then we have a current turn deal that can be made. (we can hold the turn for another 24 hours)

	19-05-2005 04:18									#470
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The only downside i can see is if we give them Cyberethics and then Plan econ, and they declare vendetta on us, then the'll owe us nothing per the Codicil

Maybe it should be reworded:

However, should the Data Angels ever declare or maintain Vendetta against the Federation, then the Federation reserves the right to treat all prior deals as abrogated

that way, only we have the right to annul prior deals

	19-05-2005 05:31									#471
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Seeing no downside in the proposal, I went ahead and posted a slightly amended version:

quote: Posted in the Embassy by Googlie Dear Data Angels Colleagues: The Junta has thought long and hard about the issue of the Ascetic Virtues SP, and have the following proposal to make: We will renew our commitment not to build the AV, and will facilitate your acquiring it through the following proposed deal: The Federation will renew its undertaking not to build the AV The Federation will transmit to the Data Angels the technologies of Cyberethics in 2171 and Planetary Economics in 2173 in exchange for which The Data Angels will transfer the sum of 250 credits to the Federation, 1/2 on receipt of Cyberethics and 1/2 on receipt of Planetary Economics The Data Angels will switch their research to Mind Machine Interface, and transmit same to the Federation as soon as possible, but no later than the year it is researched The Data Angels will not trannsmit the MMI technology to a 3rd party until advised by the Federation that the Cyborg Factory has been completed The Data Angels will undertake not to build the Cyborg Factory SP The Data Angels will acknowledge the right of the Federation to control all contact - however initiated - between the University and the Data Angels Codicil: However, should the Data Angels ever declare or maintain Vendetta with the Federation, then the Federation reserves the right to treat any or all prior deals as abrogated If we can agree on these headings, then we have a current turn deal that can be made. (we can hold the turn for another 24 hours)

Let's see what this dredges up

My guess is that it won't happen in this way - they'll balk at some of the onerous restrictions

(Maniac - can you check the tech predictor to see if indeed they'll be offered MMI if we give them Cyberethics and Planetart Economics)

	19-05-2005 08:04									#472
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its gonna be hard to trust the DA's not to sneak build the Cyborg Factory with all the ruckous we've been making recently on our agreement not to build the AV. That or I'm just being paranoid

Still, even before that, I think your right about them balking on our offer. Thats alot of restrictions for just a tech trade and a recommitment.

	19-05-2005 08:12									#473
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message sent to 3 gaian Lords

let's sit back now and wait for the offers to come in

	19-05-2005 10:13									#474
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Embassy acknowledgement from the Angels:

quote: Posted in the Embassy by ForesterSOF Thankyou for the offer. This new proposal is now in discussion mode. Like many things our decision will be forthcoming

	20-05-2005 03:19									#475
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Well, we got 1 reply:

quote: Posted by the Angels in the Embassy Dear Colonel Googlie At this time A trade does not look posible. ForesterSOF DA Ambasador

	20-05-2005 04:16									#476
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ya you were right about DA's. Not that I would even trust them even if they agreed.

	20-05-2005 04:22									#477
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Darn. Googlie's plan sounded so devious.

Oh, the Angels would indeed be able to switch to MMI. Could they be planning to build both the Ascetiv Virtues and Cyborg Factory?

	23-05-2005 10:13									#478
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The Angels have asked:

quote: Would the Junta be interested in trading Cybernetics for Neural Grafting.

I'm inclined to reply thus:

"Not really, on a 1 for 1. It made sense to us as part of a larger trade that would lead to MMI, but we believe that we will acquire NG shortly by other means"

	23-05-2005 12:29									#479
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Sure. There is no point in the trade now.

	24-05-2005 20:13									#480
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Great reply.