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Modo44
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in western Poland
Jul 2004
time: 06:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Maniac
Wouldn't the Angels vote for our mutual allies the Peacekeepers?  |
I guess they would. But remember, we want to keep Doc:Air from others for as long as possible. Meaning, we would rather not have Lal discover it too soon. The problem with Lal is, his land is too easy to access by enemy Probe Teams, plus he might simply trade with the other factions at some point.
Not that we want others to have an official confirmation, but I think keeping Yang strong is better for us than for them. So there is another reason "not to care" about the election. So, while you were joking in the Embassy, I think your reasoning was pretty much exactly what we should consider best choice.
quote:
Originally posted by Maniac
So you're in favour of a pact with the Angels? |
Not much of a choice, is it? If we drop negotitions with them, or say no, they will join our enemies. Remember, deals are over, so they would even come out clean. I say we need to keep them close. Some rants about their Pact with the Gaians are in order, but as neither of them knew we would declare war, I think we can live with it.
quote:
Originally posted by Maniac
Would you be ok with trading DAP to the Angels btw (given the right price and conditions of course)? |
A big price, preferably a long-lasting tech deal (sort of like the Int Int trade), or a really big lump sum. I can think of nothing else, but maybe you guys have better ideas? And a complete ban on forwarding the tech, of course.
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Googlie
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Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:21
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The Angels have posted:
quote:
Posted in the Embassy by IT Mart
To Spartan Federation,
We would like to inform you, that we are now in Pact agreement with Gaian Union. We were discussing this with Gaians for long time and in fact sent the pre-accepted offer in 2164, which was before you declared vendetta on the Gaian Union. This pact is intended as economic in nature.
We also would like to ask you if you would be willing to enter the Pact agreeement with our faction.
IT Mart
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We can be somewhat devious here, if we want to, or can be completely honest.
devious
Sign a pact with the Angels, thus getting full access to their data (and likewise giving them full infiltration on us), but also keeping them neutral in our world war.
Downside is small, as they already have Lal-route data on us (albeit limited), but they will be able to pass on valuable data to the Gaians (limited, thru thier pact, or mega, if openly shared)
Do we care? We've fought long and hard for probe defenses to keep the others from fully infiltrating us.
But note that there will be no commerce benefit until 2169, due to the ten years' sanctions for our obliteration of Morgan Industries.
Fully Honest
We disclose that latter point, and say that we suggest a full pact in 2169, but in the meantime will be willing to sell D:AP under some very strict conditions:- Neutrality at the minimum (but preferably entering the conflict on our side) in the wars between Sparta and the Morganites and the Gaians
- Guaranteed pact in 2169 (when sanctions lift), to last for at least 30 years
- Absolutely no attack on Sparta - and vice versa - before the pact is in effect and during the duration of the pact
- No onward transmission of Doc Air to any third party, through trade, gift, allowing a probe action, or allowing reverse engineering thru the gift, sale or capture of an aircraft (ie, agreeing to have a base with aircraft in it being mindcontrolled)
- Agreement that the Angels will not build the Cyborg Factory
- one "futures" tech - up to level 5 - at a time of our choosing, this to expire at the end of the pact (if ended)
have i missed anything?
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Kassiopeia
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Jyväskylä, Finland
Jul 2001
time: 07:21
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Hmm. My two cents:
I'm all for a deep pact with the Angels starting in 2169, with the trades etc. taking place before. But I'm not sure if the Angels can be trusted. Their pact with the Gaians is probably a coincidence.
We need to have a little chat with them and make it a matter of life and death to them. If the Gaian-Morganite alliance deepens like it probably will into a bloc, we need to balance it out with our own bloc. Otherwise the Axis of Weasels will just take us out one by one. In terms of realpolitik, we must co-operate very intimately with the Angels, but we have to make sure our trust isn't betrayed.
We have to be sure they'll understand that it's in our and their best interests to form an alliance. They can provide the probe power to keep our technology level up to speed, while we can put the actual boots on the ground.
I'd opt for a more longstanding agreement, more like a pact that can be dissolved only by mutual agreement of both parties. In other words, it'd be a pact made to last until victory is an option to us both, i.e. once the Morganite-Gaian threat has been, ehm, neutralised.
So, I'd start throwing feelers with the honest approach. The time frame of almost a decade also gives us some time to test the waters and see what happens, to see whether we can really count on them not to sell us out, it'll allow us to work out our co-operative efforts and it'll help in lulling the Weasels into a false sense of security. Insisting on neutrality should be a priority when we start the talks, but we must also stress from the get-go that we will expect them to join us on the war sooner or later. In their and our best interests.
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Maniac
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Gent, Belgium
Jul 1999
time: 06:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Modo44
A big price [for DAP], preferably a long-lasting tech deal (sort of like the Int Int trade), or a really big lump sum. I can think of nothing else, but maybe you guys have better ideas? And a complete ban on forwarding the tech, of course. |
quote:
Originally posted by Googlie
We disclose that latter point, and say that we suggest a full pact in 2169, but in the meantime will be willing to sell D:AP under some very strict conditions:- Neutrality at the minimum (but preferably entering the conflict on our side) in the wars between Sparta and the Morganites and the Gaians
- Guaranteed pact in 2169 (when sanctions lift), to last for at least 30 years
- Absolutely no attack on Sparta - and vice versa - before the pact is in effect and during the duration of the pact
- No onward transmission of Doc Air to any third party, through trade, gift, allowing a probe action, or allowing reverse engineering thru the gift, sale or capture of an aircraft (ie, agreeing to have a base with aircraft in it being mindcontrolled)
- Agreement that the Angels will not build the Cyborg Factory
- one "futures" tech - up to level 5 - at a time of our choosing, this to expire at the end of the pact (if ended)
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Keep in mind the Angels can buy DAP from the Peacekeepers in five years for 100 or 150 credits most likely. So if we give them strict conditions, I'd refuse the deal if I were an Angel. I think we can be happy if they'll accept any deal that involves a trade embargo on DAP.
Eg something like this:
- Sparta gives DAP to the Angels.
- No onward transmission of Doc Air to any third party, through trade, gift, allowing a probe action, or allowing reverse engineering thru the gift, sale or capture of an aircraft (ie, agreeing to have a base with aircraft in it being mindcontrolled)
- They give us a certain amount of cash. 100 or 150 credits or so? We could of course ask a tech in return, but the Angels are still less advanced technologically than us, so who knows when they could repay us (especially since Zak will probably research their current tech project Cyberethics before them)...
- We give Lal DAP, so that he can switch to another tech.
- The Angels and Spartans will share the cost of buying that new tech from Lal.
- That tech can be traded freely onwards to other factions (except the University of course...).
- One exception: if Lal switches to Doc:Ini, the Spartans will give him that tech as well, so that Lal can switch once again to another yet unresearched tech, to which the rules outlined above apply. The Angels have no right at all however to acquire Doc:Ini in any way from Lal. That tech is still full property from the Spartans, and has to be bought from us.
The great attraction of this deal would not be that they can buy DAP from us, but that by buying DAP from us instead of Lal, they in effect get a second tech as well. A tech that they can trade freely to other factions, unlike DAP.
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Kassiopeia
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Jyväskylä, Finland
Jul 2001
time: 07:21
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Okay, this is what I've put together:
quote:
We would like to inform you, that we are now in Pact agreement with Gaian Union. We were discussing this with Gaians for long time and in fact sent the pre-accepted offer in 2164, which was before you declared vendetta on the Gaian Union. This pact is intended as economic in nature. |
This development has caused some concern in the Spartan ranks, but we sympathise with the situation and respect the fact that you are willing to honour previously made agreements. It is just an unfortunate circumstance that of all the possible factions it was the Gaians.
quote:
We also would like to ask you if you would be willing to enter the Pact agreement with our faction. |
After careful deliberation, our answer is a reserved "yes". However, I must stress that the nature of this pact must be resolved before we engage in it. The economic sanctions on us will not be lifted until MY 2169, and entering into a pact until then would obviously be of no use. We thus have ample time to iron out the details.
We currently view the geopolitical situation as a very dangerous one as far as your and our factions are concerned. The Gaians and Morganites are, incredibly enough, forming up a bloc of power. With the Gaians and the Morganites in a deep union and us two working as separated entities, we will be cut down to size by the Morganite-Gaian buzzsaw piecemeal until they can sort out the winner by themselves.
The Spartan Federation, naturally, does not like this development and will do anything to stop it from happening. Therefore we believe it is in the best interests of our factions if we form a thorough and full pact with complete co-operation in military, economic and scientific matters. We need to establish a counterbalance to the Axis of Weasels, our name for the Morganite-Gaian coalition.
This pact would then be dissolved by a mutual agreement when the Morganites and Gaians no longer pose a threat to us, and we would sort out the inevitable victor amongst ourselves.
Clearly our factions would complement each other greatly: your probe power can keep our weapons up to date while we provide the actual hardware to work with - the boots on the ground, so to speak. The opposing bloc on the other hand lacks military strength, although they do make up for it by economic strength and taking advantage of native life.
To that end, a pact of such nature requires a great deal of trust. We wish to cultivate this by deepening our technological co-operation with you before we actually declare the pact. We are interested in providing you with Doctrine: Air Power and Cyberethics.
The deal with D:AP is a rather elaborate arrangement, as is expected since it's one of Colonel Maniac's ideas. I will explain it further later on, but in a nutshell it would allow you to purchase D:AP from us for the price of a set amount of credits (100 to 150 EC is what has been mentioned in the Junta meeting).
You would have to vow not to trade D:AP on to any third party, however in exchange for this we would (by twiddling around a bit with our pactmate Lal's research) give you an extra tech that you could trade away at your own leisure. Again, I'll get back to the details - or Maniac will, lest my head explode.
Cyberethics, on the other hand, is a bit more simple matter: our pactmate Zakharov is researching it, and as soon as we receive it from him, we can give it to you, and you in turn could switch research to a new tech which you would in turn trade to us in turn.
However, if you are not interested in cultivating a long-standing and involved alliance with us, we will have to reconsider these tech trades and the possibility of a strictly economic pact.
Any offer of neutrality from your part on our ongoing conflicts would be greatly appreciated, of course, but if we set out to deepen our relationship we will expect you to become cobelligerents and declare vendetta on the Morganites and Gaians at some time in the future.
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Maniac
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Gent, Belgium
Jul 1999
time: 06:21
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Looks great to me! 
One little thing I'd suggest to change:
quote:
Originally posted by Kassiopeia
Cyberethics, on the other hand, is a bit more simple matter: our pactmate Zakharov is researching it, and as soon as we receive it from him, we can give it to you, and you in turn could switch research to a new tech which you would in turn trade to us in turn. |
into
quote:
Originally posted by Kassiopeia
Cyberethics, on the other hand, is a bit more simple matter: we are researching it, and as soon as we have it, we can give it to you, and you in turn could switch research to a new tech which you would in turn trade to us in turn. |
Having GeoModder's comment in mind that they may trade with Zakharov in the future, not respecting our submissive pact with him, perhaps it would be best to leave out the little fact that it's Zak who will first research Cyberethics. Let them think they can only trade with us.  Besides, we're not lying at all!: we're also researching Cyberethics. 
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Kassiopeia
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Jyväskylä, Finland
Jul 2001
time: 07:21
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quote:
We would like to inform you, that we are now in Pact agreement with Gaian Union. We were discussing this with Gaians for long time and in fact sent the pre-accepted offer in 2164, which was before you declared vendetta on the Gaian Union. This pact is intended as economic in nature. |
This development has caused some concern in the Spartan ranks, but we sympathise with the situation and respect the fact that you are willing to honour previously made agreements. It is just an unfortunate circumstance that of all the possible factions it was the Gaians.
To that end, we would appreciate it if you were to remain neutral in the current ongoing conflicts between ourselves, the Morganites and the Gaians. In fact, with Planetary Governor Lal, we are planning extensive multifactional peace negotiations, and I was wondering if the Data Angels would be willing to mediate between us and our opponents-in-vendetta. We with the Peacekeepers could take care of the actual arrangements, but you would take the role of leading the summit once it's held.
How about it? We want peace, but our diplomatic relations to them have been effectively cut off and we have no intention of trusting any treaty brokered between ourselves and them. You as the middleman would make breaking their word all the more difficult for them, which in turn would mean that we could trust those promises.
quote:
We also would like to ask you if you would be willing to enter the Pact agreement with our faction. |
After careful deliberation, our answer is a reserved "yes". However, I must stress that the nature of this pact must be resolved before we engage in it. The economic sanctions on us will not be lifted until MY 2169, and entering into a pact until then would obviously be of no use. We thus have ample time to iron out the details.
We currently view the geopolitical situation as a very dangerous one as far as your and our factions are concerned.
If the peace negotiations between us and the Axis of Weasels will not work out and it will become clear that they intend to reach supremacy by using military force, we expect you to join us in applying the needed counterforce lest we both be crushed.
You see, the Gaians and Morganites are, incredibly enough, forming up a bloc of power. With the Gaians and the Morganites in a deep union and us two working as separated entities, we will be cut down to size by the Morganite-Gaian buzzsaw piecemeal until they can sort out the winner by themselves.
The Spartan Federation, naturally, does not like this development and will do anything to stop it from happening. Therefore we believe it is in the best interests of our factions if we form a thorough and full pact with complete co-operation in military, economic and scientific matters. We need to establish a counterbalance to the Axis of Weasels, our name for the Morganite-Gaian coalition.
This pact would then be dissolved by a mutual agreement when the Morganites and Gaians no longer pose a threat to us, and we would sort out the inevitable victor amongst ourselves.
Clearly our factions would complement each other greatly: your probe power can keep our weapons up to date while we provide the actual hardware to work with - the boots on the ground, so to speak. The opposing bloc on the other hand lacks military strength, although they do make up for it by economic strength and taking advantage of native life.
To that end, a pact of such nature requires a great deal of trust. We wish to cultivate this by deepening our technological co-operation with you before we actually declare the pact. We are interested in providing you with Doctrine: Air Power and Cyberethics.
The deal with D:AP is a rather elaborate arrangement, as is expected since it's one of Colonel Maniac's ideas. I will explain it further later on, but in a nutshell it would allow you to purchase D:AP from us for the price of a set amount of credits (100 to 150 EC is what has been mentioned in the Junta meeting).
You would have to vow not to trade D:AP on to any third party, however in exchange for this we would (by twiddling around a bit with our pactmate Lal's research) give you an extra tech that you could trade away at your own leisure. Again, I'll get back to the details - or Maniac will, lest my head explode.
Cyberethics, on the other hand, is a bit more simple matter: we are researching it and as soon as we have it, we can give it to you, and you in turn could switch research to a new tech which you would give to us.
However, if you are not interested in cultivating a long-standing and involved alliance with us, we will have to reconsider these tech trades and the possibility of a strictly economic pact.
Last edited by Kassiopeia on 04-04-2005 at 21:13
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01-04-2005 00:57
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