18-04-2005 19:36									#421
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Should we be worried by the Angel lack of response?

	19-04-2005 02:45									#422
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Maybe they need some notification to see it? Like outside of the Embassy?

	19-04-2005 03:38									#423
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Geo is online so I just chucked a PM to him asking whether they've realised they have a message.

	23-04-2005 18:56									#424
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I posted this in the Embassy:

quote: Posted by Googlie in the Embassy Greetings: Although not unknown to you, I would like to present my credentials formally as the Chief External Affairs Officer of the Junta. Within the ranks of the Junta, with Lt Colonel Kassiopeia undertalking Project RL, necessitating some prolonged absences from Junta activities, the Spartan Federation has undergone some minor reallocations of responsibilkities, and I have been appointed Commanding Officer, External Affairs. I remain co-chair of the Junta with Colonel Maniac (Commanding Officer, Armed forces) and am also responsible for CRYPTEIA, our Intelligence Service. Sparta Engineering Corps, formerly my other responsibility, has now been folded into a new command - Infrastructure - which is commanded by Lt Colonel vishniac. Commander Modo heads up our Navy, while Lt Colonel Snodasmannen is the Officer commanding our Air Forces. This heralds somewhat of a shift in focus for the Federation as the Junta contemplates a possible longer period of peace on Chiron, although we still see the redoubtable Chairman as a threat - the Hive have considerable forces massed just outside our territory markers around our southern perimeter, and of course, the Hive will imminently discover Doctrine: Air Power, with all that entails for those factions that the irascible Chairman is quarrelling with. Lt Colonel Kassiopeia had been exploring with you the concept of a Planetary Peace Conference - called under the auspices of Commissioner Lal, Planetary Governor, but chaired by your goodselves as the only consistently neutral faction. Although historically one of the prime belligerents (only yourselves and the PeaceKeepers have not, at some time, been in Vendetta with us), we would welcome a period of peaceful development and normal realtions with the Morgan and Gaian factions. We have managed to truce with the Hive (through the expediency of capturing one of their bases, then responding to their demands for its return by "trading land for peace"), and our relations with the Peacekeepers and yourselves have always been cordial. And, of course, the University enjoys the status of a Federation Protectorate. So the Junta believes that the conditions are ripe - and right - for a Peace Conference, and we will support the Data Angels in any endeavours you make to ensure that it not only takes place - but is successful Regards, Colonel Googlie

	26-04-2005 00:44									#425
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Well, I guess the peace Conference isn't going to get odd the ground - at least as the RP initiative that Kassiopeia envisioned.

OOPS - I guess I should visit the general forum more often (I'd been looking for a reply in our embassy)

	26-04-2005 21:56									#426
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Posted this in the Embassy:

quote: Posted in the Embassy by Googlie To our friends the Data Angels: Given that airpower is about to be in the hands of several factions, we are wondering if the Data Angels are intested in its purchase? (This would avoid you having to steal from the Hive, possibly incurring the Chairman's wrath, or paying the exorbitant prices other factions might be asking) We would be prepared to sell the technology to you this turn (on a pre-accepted basis) for somewhere around the 150 credits figure Any interest on the part of the Angels? Colonel Googlie

	27-04-2005 02:22									#427
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The Angels refused:

quote: We are more interested in the purchase of Cyberethics or Doctrine: Initiative at this stage, but 150 ec for them sounds a bit prepostious. With peace becoming a real possibility, there is less of an urgency now. Beside, we trust the capabilities of our probes to the fullest.

	27-04-2005 06:57									#428
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I guess - as they are currently researching CyberEthics - that we could sell it to them - after all, we need credits as much as they need techs

	27-04-2005 07:03									#429
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Is asking 150c preposterous when tech costs are rising above 1000 labs?

	27-04-2005 07:21									#430
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Maybe we could engineer another leapfrog with the Angels - give them Cyberethics when we get it from Zak, then they give us something that we don't have, meanwhile we get yet another tech after we switch from Cyberethics, then, finally, we cash in that AA at Tegea Harbour.

Who knows, we might even get to Fusion that way (we just need, in addition to Cyberethics, the techs of AMA and PSA (and the latter gives us the HSA, a useful SP to snare)

Or maybe we go it alone after Cyberethics for Neural Grafting and MMI, for the Cyborg Factory SP

	28-04-2005 10:31									#431
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So - no comments on my suggestion re a further round of tech leapfrogging with the Angels?

(Maybe it belongs in a new "Next Technology?" thread and not in the Angels' one per se)

	28-04-2005 12:52									#432
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I fear it belongs in the "dream on" thread. They already ignored us concerning D:AP, remember?

	28-04-2005 18:28									#433
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 I fear it belongs in the "dream on" thread. They already ignored us concerning D:AP, remember?

No - they didn't "ignore us".

They replied that they weren't interested in Doc Air, but in Cyberethics (which they are currently researching) and Doc Init (they have asked us before if we'd be willing to sell them a cruiser hull)

I think that any of the 5 choicres are do-able with a 3-way (Uni, us and the Angels) - but they'd want the Ascetic Virtues, 'cos that's come up in the past (and at one time we talked of offering not to build it - I think it was for the Int int deal, but I can't find that referencein the Embassy now. And I'm sure that if we went the PSA route we'd argue over who gets to build the HSA as well)

So I wouldn't discount any of those options

The real question to be posed is:

Do we now think that we have a chance of winning by transcendence?

	30-04-2005 08:05									#434
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If your looking that long term...

I forsee hive being picked apart by the human factions and then an all our fight amoung us for those bases. This would probably happen before transcendence. Personally I don't really believe this new peace effort will last (if it even gets off the ground). If we can maintain military dominance throughout the rest of the game I think transcendence is a possibility (cause everyone will attack us). But then why not win by most votes after we've knocked out a few factions or just conquest victory.

	30-04-2005 09:42									#435
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To win by transcendence, we would have to contain the others for good. Just making them a little smaller is probably not enough. And yes, the Hive will be under pressure sooner or later. That is precisely why I wanted to ally with them. The numbers the AI has would provide great punch-takers, allowing us to conquer places with much less effort.

	01-05-2005 07:46									#436
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Its no fair that the gaians and the morgans are allied... WTF that should be impossible RP wise. If they can be broken up I don't think we even need Yang.

	13-05-2005 23:04									#437
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Damn.


Dear Colonel,

The Commerce Ops looks positive on the proposed technology exchange, and hopes that despite the year 2170 has been passed, a deal is still possible. However, the Ops does not wish to come back on the Secret Project agreement. The more so since we have already desist from constructing the Citizens' Defense Force ourself when the opportunity came. How would the Federation have felt if suddenly, almost without warning, we unilaterally decided to cease that agreement? No, this is simply the second part of the same agreement, and we insist that it be honored by the Federation.

Regards,
IT GeoModder

	13-05-2005 23:13									#438
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Do we still want to agree on a Cyberethics<->Neural Grafting deal without removal of the AV clause included, given that:
a) we might get Neural Grafting through the PDL
b) if that doesn't work, we might still get it for free if Lal gives the tech for Zak

	13-05-2005 23:19									#439
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Do we still want to agree on a Cyberethics<->Neural Grafting deal without removal of the AV clause included, given that: a) we might get Neural Grafting through the PDL b) if that doesn't work, we might still get it for free if Lal gives the tech for Zak

Personally, I don't think that deal is profitable for us, or in fact, gives us any benifits at all (correct me if I'm wrong). Instead, I suggest we offer to trade them Cyberethics for the rights to the AV.

	13-05-2005 23:31									#440
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Sounds good to me.
Though could the fact that they didn't give a counterproposal indicate they have AV plans themselves?

	13-05-2005 23:37									#441
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It is worth trying, as that might confirm your suspicion, Maniac. If they disagree, we can always (correctly) say that it was though of as a joint deal, and call it off as a whole.

	13-05-2005 23:43									#442
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Sounds good to me. Though could the fact that they didn't give a counterproposal indicate they have AV plans themselves?

Good point ...It's also possible that they're just trying to stop us from building it, thinking it will be too good for us.

But like Modo says there's no harm in asking I guess, they already know we want to build it.

What's the next project for us if we miss out on the AV, the Cyborg Factory? (= instant elite units )

	14-05-2005 00:06									#443
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WTF??

I compared the University energy reserves of MY 2169 and MY 2170.

MY 2169 they had 77 credits in reserve, and were producing 13c per year.

This year they have 63c in reserve. And they didn't hurry any production as far as I can see.

It doesn't fit the theory exactly (2c difference, perhaps explainable by the UoP changing energy allocations or so?), but a possible explanation could be that the Angels sold Adaptive Doctrine to the University for 25c. Perhaps the Angels thought we'd get the tech soon anyway from the PKs, and therefore sold it to UoP for 25c before we could give it to them.

This would mean they could have already broken the no-trade clause with the UoP in the past.

I don't want to jump to incorrect conclusions though, so does anyone else have an idea how the UoP energy reserves can be explained?

	14-05-2005 00:07									#444
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Hmm - I wonder if there's a way we can get the University to build the AV, then extort the base from Zak?

If we gave him Plan Econ, and he started the AV project, what would happen if we sent a crawler there and:

• disbanded it
  
• turned it over to his control - would he use it to rush the SP

	14-05-2005 00:09									#445
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Hmm - I wonder if there's a way we can get the University to build the AV, then extort the base from Zak?

I've been thinking that as well. We'd still live by the letter of the agreement.

	14-05-2005 00:19									#446
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About Ascetic Virtues:
I really don't think we should press to get it. Sure, it would be useful but not at the expense of our loyalty.
Remember the Angels could have given the CDF to Morgan if they wanted to, but didn't and sticked to the agreement.
The Angels don't have that many SP and I can't see them giving us AV's rights when they have planned for a long time to build it. To insist would seem insulting.
And don't forget we have a few other SP which will require resources: Planetary Datalinks, Cyborg Factory, Hunter-Seeker Algorithm.

That's my position on the issue.

	14-05-2005 00:24									#447
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac I don't want to jump to incorrect conclusions though, so does anyone else have an idea how the UoP energy reserves can be explained?

We can hint to it in our next conference and/or embassy statement. Sound a bit angered, maybe?

As to our integrity or whatever, we will need to get the Angels to their knees sooner or later. Remember thay are growing, and will soon present more of a threat than Morgan...

	14-05-2005 00:41									#448
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac WTF?? It doesn't fit the theory exactly (2c difference, perhaps explainable by the UoP changing energy allocations or so?), but a possible explanation could be that the Angels sold Adaptive Doctrine to the University for 25c. Perhaps the Angels thought we'd get the tech soon anyway from the PKs, and therefore sold it to UoP for 25c before we could give it to them.

I'd say that's a strong probability.

The PK's got it in 2169, after we played our turn. If the PK's had then given it to Zak, we'd have opened the 2170 turn with Zak offering us both Cyberethics and Adaptive Doctrine. But as Zak didn't have AD when his turn closed, only Cyberethics was sent to us at the end of the Uni 2170 turn.

However, Angels bought/traded(?) for AD from the PK's then sold it to Zak on their turn (just before Morgan, then us, in turn order)

That meant that after we closed the Uni diplo box on our turn, then called up Zak again, he could send us AD then, as the game engine then recognized that he had another tech we lacked

So I'd move my initial comment from "strong probability" to "almost 100% certain"

I say the gloves are off with the Angels. Let's proceed to voice our displeasure at them and in effect say, "All deals are off the table"

	14-05-2005 00:51									#449
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Which explains their weird behaviour in the conference, when we mentioned deals with Zak. Hehe, looks like we caught them with the hand in the pie, so to speak.

	14-05-2005 01:04									#450
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Hmm - another possibility, though, is that the Angels linked an AA and got Adapt Doc, then traded it to the PK's for Neural grafting.

At that point, the PK's would pass it on to the Uni, so that's why we didn't see it upon opening the turn.

I still think Maniac hit the nail on the head, though.

the A's sold it to the Uni, and traded it to the PK's for NG (and inadvertently left both in our diplobox while seeing if we had either, a good indication that we've not been probed by them)

I'm in favour of going ahead and confronting them, and using it as the pretext for pulling out of the AV prohibition, as well