14-12-2004 21:32									#91
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How about getting our navy to assist us in doing some bombing to soften up their defenses? Or do we have PolySoft so that we could build an artillery unit? Perhaps this will all take too long to set up?

	14-12-2004 22:41									#92
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Ok, so take out the sensor first. Then, do we have some infantry to attack? If yes, those two things should do it, IMO.

I'd go for this base ASAP, to get that production, and take it away from Zak. That would mean being able to produce some reinforcements there.

	16-12-2004 19:27									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Snoddasmannen How about getting our navy to assist us in doing some bombing to soften up their defenses? Or do we have PolySoft so that we could build an artillery unit? Perhaps this will all take too long to set up?

Hunter is 40 seatiles away and Invincible 42 (and that includes a couple of fungus tiles) So it'd be 7+ turns before either was in a position to bombard.

At AU we could build an Impact cruiser in 4 turns (not rushed) and in 3 more it'd be in that fungus tile south of MonStat and ready to bombard.

But for the same price (40 mins) we could build 2 crytpeia and double our chanxes of taking out the perim defense, which would reduce defense by 50% - it'd tke a lot of bombardment to get a 50% damage to the defenders

(But, of course, an Impact Cruiser would be a huge addition to our fleet)

And it begs the question - do we try and grow AU (it has a hab complex already) - and if so, the next build there needs to be a rec commons - or do we churn out coklony pods to populate North Arcadia?

	16-12-2004 19:32									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 Ok, so take out the sensor first. Then, do we have some infantry to attack? If yes, those two things should do it, IMO. I'd go for this base ASAP, to get that production, and take it away from Zak. That would mean being able to produce some reinforcements there.

While the minerals would be great, I'd rather see us rush thru Otk-Dis to Climatic Research and deny Morgan the easy techsteal from that coastal base (would need Crypteia or longstriders with the invasion force, but that's a given anyway)

	16-12-2004 21:41									#95
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All those plans sound wonderful to me.

To add to the brainstorming, yet another option would be to send SNC Mercury with a few units to the gulf south of Monitoring Station, and let those pillage the sensor array (and capture Budushii Dvor while they're in the neighbourhood). (Drawback is of couse Mercury can't ferry troops to AU anymore, so it's probably not such a great idea after all )

In any case, we have plenty of options to choose from to reach our goals.


On another note, what if Zakharov offers submission before we conquer Monitoring Station? Should we accept, or reject so we can control all those minerals ourselves?

On a third note, is it ok if I ask Method to rename this thread "The Council of War"? Has a nice ring to it IMHO.

	17-12-2004 05:03									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie I posted this in the Morgan Embassy: (re whether Zak had rushed the defender at Kop Obs)

Not very helpful reply from jtsisyoda:

quote: PM received by Googlie from jtsisyoda I haven't even opened the turn yet-- we have time problems of our own, dude. I suggest having a contingency plan.

(Wr do - if the Uni proves too much of a handful we'll turn our attention to Morgan!!)

	17-12-2004 08:22									#97
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quote: And it begs the question - do we try and grow AU (it has a hab complex already) - and if so, the next build there needs to be a rec commons - or do we churn out coklony pods to populate North Arcadia?

I would say sell off the hab complex (it's costing 3 ecs per turn) and just churn out colony pods. We'll never get that base much above size 7 in the near future.

	17-12-2004 11:42									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Zeiter I would say sell off the hab complex (it's costing 3 ecs per turn) and just churn out colony pods. We'll never get that base much above size 7 in the near future.

I definately agree.

quote: Originally posted by Googlie (Wr do - if the Uni proves too much of a handful we'll turn our attention to Morgan!!)

They haven't opened the turn yet?! That's weird ... I don't like this withholding of information, our troops need it. We shared intelligence with them of the Hive and now they give us nothing?

Why not reply something to the effect of what you just suggested?

	17-12-2004 13:33									#99
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Yes, it's not nice keeping us i the dark... and having that Gator boat so close to our cities... Uh, oh, we might see those as hostile acts.
Uh, oh.

	17-12-2004 19:05									#100
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Turn's up, and good news - KopObs has grown to 2 and is still undefended, so Warwag drove right in, and the citizens were split about 50:50 in their reception. Half threw themselves under the wheels of the advancing brigade, while the other 1/2 had a whip-round and collected 20 ec's which they donated to our treasury. Hoever that surviving half are all red faced and furious, so Captain KK ordered workers taken off the fields and assigned to the base as hastily assembled local militia.

Last edited by Googlie on 17-12-2004 at 19:25

	17-12-2004 19:28									#101
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Great! It's funny that isn't it, how people react when under pressure? No doubt many of the casualties were due to violent drunken celebrations of our liberation. And hey, don't we all sometimes feel kinda' red-faced the day after one of those?

Thats a big relief though

	17-12-2004 19:31									#102
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As to the question whether a captured base loses its mineral production the turn after capture - doesn't appear to be so. AU's first (of 2) rows is now complete, so its Crypteia will build next turn

	17-12-2004 19:35									#103
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Mindworm did move adjacent to AU, so rather see Kel take any damage, I moved Shinsengumi (20% damaged from the intial atatck on the base) into the base and took out the mindworm - sustained no damage

(And AU doesnt; now have a Hab Complex - I'm sure that I saw it intact after its capture - but I'll have a look at last turn after I midsace this one)

	17-12-2004 20:22									#104
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Kel did the end run and stopped at 84:16. Uni former at 86:16. Zak called, offered Opticals for a truce - Kel refused, Vendetta continues.

Chiron Knights summonned - reaches Kel, and takes out the former

Will be in a position to take Otk-Dis next turn. Kel moves 1 onto river, then 1/3rd upriver, then attacks (does an Elite infantryman get a hasty penalty if action occurs during its bonus mp? - if so, then we'd attack with Chiron Knights) - and takes out the defender, then the other enters the base and takes it. The damaged attacking unit next turn can heal at the monlith south of the attack tile

Then we have easy road access to Climatic Research (4 tiles of road) and to Bud Dvor (3 tiles of road)

And Zak is conveniently building an Energy bank at Mon Stat to make it an even more juicy target for us for when we eventually take it over!!

	17-12-2004 20:45									#105
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That's some good planning and great execution done so far.

	17-12-2004 22:57									#106
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Hey - I suck at military planning - that's Maniac's field. I'm just the instrument in the maestro's hands

	18-12-2004 05:42									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie As to the question whether a captured base loses its mineral production the turn after capture - doesn't appear to be so. AU's first (of 2) rows is now complete, so its Crypteia will build next turn

Something new learned.

Our campaign seems to be proceeding smoothly.

quote: Will be in a position to take Otk-Dis next turn. Kel moves 1 onto river, then 1/3rd upriver, then attacks (does an Elite infantryman get a hasty penalty if action occurs during its bonus mp? - if so, then we'd attack with Chiron Knights)

Ah one problem: IIRC the tile east of the two units is rocky, meaning they'd already lose 2 MPs moving on it. I hope knowing this wouldn't have affected your decision to move east.
(IIRC the hasty penalty also counts for elite units.)

quote: Hey - I suck at military planning - that's Maniac's field.

Nah, I consider myself more an economics specialist. Regarding military strategy I just copy and paste what I have read or have seen others do, such as you.

	18-12-2004 07:42									#108
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Ah one problem: IIRC the tile east of the two units is rocky, meaning they'd already lose 2 MPs moving on it. I hope knowing this wouldn't have affected your decision to move east. (IIRC the hasty penalty also counts for elite units.)

You're correct

I just ran it on the sim. The rover can enter and mosey down the river, and also attack 4 (impact) x 1.5 (elite) x .33 (hasty) x .8 (damage) = 3.2 offense

The defender is synthmetal, so is 2 x 1.25 (intrinsic base defense) = 2.5 defense

We win 17 times out of 20, but Kel doesn't have the movement points to enter, nor would Warwag, starting in 2153 (would have if started in 2152, but unfortunately I didn't think this one thru properly)

And Zak can move one of his two defenders from Bud Dvor to Otk-Dis

So maybe next turn we simply move on to that rocky tile (86:16) and bring up reinforcements as well (Shinsengumi from AU and Warwag from Argos, as the new garrisons will have arrived by then)

In 2154 Kel can attack the first defender (assuming Zak brings in reinforcements) and then Warwag can take out the second and then move into the base and heal as well

My only fear is that we're giving him a lot of time to recall the 2 Ogres from wherever they're lurking. Both of these in Mon Stat with its perim defense would be a handful to destroy, and would cost us dearly

	18-12-2004 14:20									#109
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No point attacking, if you can't take the city, and aren't sure about the enemy's reinforcements. If Zak would bring in an Ogre, our first attack wouldn't do much good anyway, right? I say we prepare it, and execute next turn.

	25-12-2004 06:21									#110
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Units now in position for a blitzkreig on Otk-Dis.

Kel will make the first move downriver then followed by as many of the Impact rovers as are needed to take the base. The all will enter.

It's linked by road to Climatic Research which should be our 2155 target. We need to secure Arcadia's Eastern coastline before Morgan gets ideas either to join in the general mayhem and capture a Uni base - or else plops some colony pods on its coast while Zak is engaged with us. We cant let them have that lebensraum

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	25-12-2004 06:28									#111
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And it looks like Zak is prepping for an attack on Argos (why else an impact Infantryman? - for that % bonus of infantry attacks base)

If it sorties out alone, then Longstrider should subvert it. if it has a Synthmetal buddy, then the 2 rovers NE of Monsta should take them out if not needed for the Otk-Dis front (In fact, let's hope that Zak does send it accompanied - that way he'll denude MonStat of defenders - at least until his 2 Ogres arrive)

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	25-12-2004 12:59									#112
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Can we get units back after those two bases are taken? Can we add more infantry to the attack then? Monitoring Station is a must, IMO.

Concerning Morgan, I think they might try to steal something from Zak, not take a base, nor try to colonize here. We are very present in this area, and we could then seriously consider taking the base. Or, blackmailing them big time.

	25-12-2004 19:35									#113
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Our plans were to take Otk-Obs, then move over the road to Climatic Research to secure that eastern shoreline (and deny infiltration/techsteal to Morgan - that's the longstrider's mission (currently in Argos) - he'll next steal the Uni's maps then garrison ClimRes against probe action

(I say take the maps, 'cos in one of the parallel turns for AI diplomacy purposes we got the message form Zak "I have a very nice map of Morgan territory ..." and while I think I've been able to piece it together pretty accurately from their base screeies, it's always good to get confirmation)

Plus, we need to prep the invasion of MonStat more carefully, as it ahs a perim defense as well as a sensor, giving it a huge defensive bonus (that's why mind controlling would be awesome - we'd keep the whole base intact insread of losing a facility and a population for every defender killed)

And, as well, if we reduce Zak to just 1 or 2 bases then he might submit and then we can build him up again to be our research slave

	25-12-2004 20:04									#114
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Yes, it was agreed upon, and it is good plan. I was only asking about the assets available, and how fast our force can return after dealing with Climatic research.

Monitoring Station is a juicy target, that's why I'm so interested in it. A battle might be costly (even after the Sensor is down), but it would leave our cash reserve untouched (some structures will remain intact, right?). Buying it would slow down our planned upgrades. Personally, I'd try and take the base, because it's production potential sems big enough even after it takes a beating. But it's more of a feeling, than thorough calculation.

	26-12-2004 01:42									#115
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The invasion seems to be proceeding smoothly.

A minor observation: I noticed the expedition force for Otkrietia-Discovery moved on the fungus tile instead of the rocky tile. Moving on a fungal tile costs 3 MP while moving on a rocky tile “only” costs 2 MP. The rocky tile is also 1/3 of a MP closer to our target base. May I therefore suggest that next year the two rovers, which are not yet on the river, move E x 1 towards the rocky tile instead NE x 1?


There’s another matter I’d like to bring to everyone’s attention. In both simulation games I played in which I captured Otkrietia-Discovery, Zakharov immediately offered submission after the conquest. Of course the actions of the AI in the real game can completely differ from what happens in the simulation. Still, I think we should discuss what to do if Zak offers submission next year, before we have captured Monitoring Station. That way Googlie won’t be confronted with a submission offer without knowing what anyone thinks about it.

Some good news is that we don’t necessarily have to capture Monitoring Station to gain control over its mineral riches. I tested in the simulation how the borders would shift if we founded a base near the boreholes, and this is the result:



On the other side, Monitoring Station is still worth a lot without the boreholes and mineral bonus, as a highly populated and well infrastructured base.

But of course, gaining Zakharov as a submissive ally is also worth a lot. We’d more or less have an extra council vote (at least if Zak also being submissive to Lal won’t cause a conflict of interest?). We could also make indirect use of the labs his small size 1/2 bases produce: bases that would be destroyed if we tried to attack them ourselves, as they’re too small.

And in my (limited) experience the AI only makes a submission offer once. After that it’s a fight to the death. So if he offers submission next year, we can’t for example say: “We’ll accept your next submission offer, AFTER having conquered Monitoring Station.”

So what to do?

	26-12-2004 02:04									#116
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Btw Googlie, which of those four impact rovers is which? I've lost track.

	26-12-2004 02:55									#117
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How many bases will Zak have left, after we capture the 3 we plan to take now? How close do you think his Ogres are? If we'll have a half of what he's got, or are close to it, I think we can call it a day. Hopefully we can manage that, before meeting the Ogres.

My concerns at the moment are taking Monitoring Station, and making our forces free for the next target, whatever that will be. Do we have any other strategic goals there at the moment?

	26-12-2004 05:00									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac A minor observation: I noticed the expedition force for Otkrietia-Discovery moved on the fungus tile instead of the rocky tile. Moving on a fungal tile costs 3 MP while moving on a rocky tile “only” costs 2 MP. The rocky tile is also 1/3 of a MP closer to our target base. May I therefore suggest that next year the two rovers, which are not yet on the river, move E x 1 towards the rocky tile instead NE x 1?

The intent of moving onto that particular tile was to avoid the possibility of losing one to a foray by the about-to-be-built Uni Impact squad. The base is linked by road thru the monolith to that sunny tile, and we'd be just above it, within striking range (albeit a rush attack with its final 1/3rd mp).

This way we are out of reach, but can still move downriver 2/3rds of 1 mp and attack from the river fungus tile with 1 1/3rd left (Kel) and 2 1/3rd left (the 2 others)

Next turn we should have captured the base before the 2 extra units need to move

(The 2 units with Kel are Warwag - rehomed to Argos) and Chiron Knights (homed to MT) - 50% damaged after killing off the mindworm. In reserve - the second wave - are Castor Horsemen - homed to SC2 and Shinsengumi - homed to AU)

	26-12-2004 05:34									#119
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I think we should seriously consider a subjugation offer from the University. They haven't attempted to bring any other AI into the war yet, which might change over time. We are also turn by turn attracting eyes from all over the Planet, as our military assets are engaged in Arcadia. We could keep a few cities to establish a stronghold, but I think that the bases we haven't taken yet would be more useful with the AI managing them and we plundering it for techs and credits.

I am not sure of the in-game mechanics of how beneficial the submissive would be compared to complete annexation of Arcadian territory, but I think considering the way the Morganites have been behaving lately, it would be best to just hammer them to submission. Then we can move in our probes and other crap to protect the continent and we can flex our true muscle elsewhere when needed.

Also, don't tell anyone, but sitting in a rover all day is giving me cramps.

Besideswhich, writing a total surrender from the Uni would be RP-wise golden: a chance to write some great fiction and abovel all, it'd be a demonstration of how frightening the very thought of facing our military machine in a dragged-on fight is.

	26-12-2004 10:56									#120
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We can always accept his surrender, then help staff his smaller bases with our Crypteia - then, if we feel like it, demand that he turn over Mon Stat to us (base trading is prohibited, but base extortion isn't)

We might want to test that in the simulator to make sure that we aren't giving him grounds to call off his submissiveness