11-12-2004 04:23									#151
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Personally, I would make anything you send as short and sweet as possible... "We broke through at Quanto with chained Artillery and I'm sure you know what happened next..."

This is it. This is all we need to say in the PM. Then post the battle report.

	11-12-2004 04:23									#152
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Well, if they ask, they can have the battle report for all I care. I don't think we're going to find any mistakes (or not more than have been made before). Or that could be the sign to post it in public.

Krill, let's keep the battle report as dry as possible. No gloating, no jokes (I'm thinking of removing the "resistance has ended" too, although it tries to lighten up what is a major event), and not too much compassion either. Not yet, anyway.

DeepO

	11-12-2004 04:26									#153
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quote: Originally posted by Krill Er, so Trip, do you prefer my longer, explantry post or DeepOs short and succint post?

Personally, I think shorter is better. The point is to let Lego know what happened. Not much more is needed than that... it's not like they'll feel any better depending on what or how much is written. Compassion can come in later, as DeepO said. Short and succinct...

	11-12-2004 04:29									#154
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I'd agree with dropping the 'Resistance has ended'.

	11-12-2004 04:32									#155
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okay, cleaning up the battle report.

DeepO

	11-12-2004 04:32									#156
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Personally, I think shorter is better. The point is to let Lego know what happened. Not much more is needed than that... it's not like they'll feel any better depending on what or how much is written. Compassion can come in later, as DeepO said. Short and succinct...

I can't stress enough how much I agree with this. Like Trip said, all that's needed now is ... "We broke through at Quanto with chained Artillery and you can guess the rest."

	11-12-2004 04:33									#157
	Inflate your Upload Space

With regard to writing to Lego, I'd echo Trip and suggest that anything sent within the next ten minutes is better than a perfectly nuanced report sent tomorrow...

	11-12-2004 04:35									#158
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Battle report turn 244: 1270 AD 1. DD stumbles into sub at Abilene 4444788 (name unknown). DD 1/4 Operation Watergrogged. 2. art bombs 5/5 BB Tipperary (or Karina? only looked after bombing). failed. 3. art bombs 5/5 BB Tipperary (or Karina). Tipperary 4/5 4. fighter bombs BB Jackson. Fighter fails. 5. 2/4 DD attacks BB Jackson. 2/4 DD destroyed. Jackson promoted to 2/5. 6. art bombs 4/5 BB Karina. Karina 2/5. 7. art bombs 4/5 Tipperary. fails 8. art bombs 4/5 Tiperrary. fails 9. art bombs 4/5 Tipperary. Tipperary 3/5 10. art bombs 3/5 Tipperary. Tipperary 2/5 11. art bombs 2/5 Karina. Karina 1/5. 12. transport attacks 2/5 BB Jackson. counter bombardment failed. Transport destroyed. Jackson 1/5 13. transport attacks 2/5 BB Tipperary. counter bombardment hits. Transport destroyed. Tipperary 2/5 14. transports attack 2/5 BB Tipperary. Transport destroyed. Tipperary 2/5. 15. transports attack 2/5 BB Tipperary. Transport destroyed. Tipperary 2/5. 16. transports attack 2/5 BB Tipperary. Transport destroyed. Tipperary 2/5. 17. Transport attacks 2/5 BB Tipperary. Tipperary sunk. Transport promotes to 3/5 18. Transport attacks 1/5 BB Karina. Transport destroyed. Karina 1/5. 19. Transport attacks 1/5 BB Karina. Karina sunk. Transport 1/4. 20. Transport attacks 1/5 BB Jackson. Jackson sunk. Transport 1/4. watergrogged totals: 9 bombardments, 5 hits totalling 6 hp. 10 attacks. 1 DD and 6 transports lost. Lego lost 3 BB. 21. Marine attacks Quanto Mechanico. 2/4 BB sunk. Bomber destroyed. Quanto Mechanico taken. 22. Marine captures explorer (1st sappers) at Quanto Mechanico 3. 23. Marine captures explorer (2nd sappers) at Quanto Mechanico 33. 24. Marine captures 3 workers (Ann was one of them, I think) at Quanto Mechanico 1. 25. Quanto Mechanico abandoned. We lost 2 transports (3/5 and 1/4). 26. New city created "Quanto 6" 27. Tank captures Nou Camp. 28. Tank captures Sandonorico 29. Tank captures Karina. (forbidden palace destroyed?) 30. Tank captures Oasis. 31. Abandoned Oasis. 32. New city built: Oasis 8. 33. Tank captures Farmerville. 34. Tank captures Forkmouth. 35. Farmerville abandoned. 36. New city built, "Farmer 8". 37. Tank captures Red Bricks. We control the Sistine Chapel. 38. Tank captures Tarzania. 39. Red Bricks abandoned. 40. New city built, "Red Bricks 8" 41. Tank captures Legopolis. Fighter destroyed. Smith's Trading company controlled. Bach's Cathedral controlled. The (first) battle for Fort Stanwix 42. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment fails. Inf killed. Tank 3/4. 43. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment fails. Inf killed. Tank 3/4. 44. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment hits. Tank killed. Inf 1/4. 45. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment hits. Tank retreats (1/4), inf 4/4. 46. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment hits. Tank destroyed, inf 1/4. 47. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment hits. Tank retreats (1/4). Inf 4/4. 48. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment hits. Tank destroyed. Inf promotes to 2/5. 49. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment hits. Tank destroyed. Inf 4/4. 50. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment fails. Inf killed, tank 3/4. 51. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment hits. Inf killed. Tank 3/4. 52. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment hits. Tank destroyed. Inf 2/4. 53. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment hits. Tank retreats (1/4). Inf 2/4. 54. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment hits. Tank destroyed. Inf promotes to 4/5. 55. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment fails. Inf killed. Tank 3/4. 56. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment fails. Tank retreats (1/4). Inf 2/4. 57. Tank attacks inf. defensive bombardment fails. Inf killed. Tank 2/4. Fort Stanwix total: 16 Tank attacks. 10 succesful defensive bombardments. 6 infs killed. 6 tanks killed. 58. MI captures settler at Legopolis 22. 59. Marine captures 3 workers at Legopolis 3 60. Marine captures 3 workers at Dye Fields 47 61. Marine captures 3 workers at Dye Fields 41 62. 3/4 Marine captures worker at Ahhmyfoot 7. 63. Forkmouth abandoned. 64. Sandonorico abandoned. 65. Tarzania abandoned. 66. Karina abandoned. Grand total: 9 bombardments, 5 hits totalling 6 hp. 27 attacks. 4 retreats. 10 successfull defensive bombardments. We lost 1 DD, 8 TR & 6 T. Lego lost 4 BB, 1 sub, 1 bomber, 1 fighter, 6inf, 2 explorers, 13 workers, 1 settler, 9 cities.

This should be the cleaned up version.

In the comments thread:

quote: Once Vox has played its turn, we're going to include some screenshots. For the moment, they might give away too much info.

DeepO

	11-12-2004 04:37									#159
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quote: Originally posted by vulture With regard to writing to Lego, I'd echo Trip and suggest that anything sent within the next ten minutes is better than a perfectly nuanced report sent tomorrow...

I agree. Let's send something short and to the point very soon.

	11-12-2004 04:40									#160
	Put an end to popups!

okay, 10 minutes deadline, or this will stay here forever.

CH, The "you can guess the rest" thing, is in my eyes about the same as "Legopolis has fallen", maybe only a little less respectful. The 2 sentences surrounding it, are only meant to express our sympathy with the team, if we only send that one sentence, I think we better don't send anything at all, as it seems a gloat.

Other than that, I don't care.

10 minutes... either give some good arguments, or the version above gets sent.

DeepO

	11-12-2004 04:41									#161
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

What I wrote was just an example, definitely not what I'd send. My point was that I would suggest something short that just explains what happened.

	11-12-2004 04:46									#162
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I like it to go out now as well and I would drop the part about you know what came next. I know we all are trying not to be cruel and such, but who knows how others will see it.

The less said the less that can be misinterpreted.

	11-12-2004 04:47									#163
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Further, (while waiting ), I propose to publish the battle report at least 12h after Vondrack reads his message, or in case he asks for it.

And I prefer to do it while I'm still here for a couple of hours, and not just before going to bed. I want to avoid everyone posting his comments... as said before, I do not need to be the voice of GS, but I do think we need one voice, instead of everyone at once.

DeepO

	11-12-2004 04:48									#164
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quote: Dear Legoland, this is a time of both joy and grief for us. We thought we should give you a heads up, before we make anything public.... Legopolis has fallen. More details will be unveiled later, but we just wanted to let you guys know that we feel for your loss, even if we were responsible. We know how much time you invested in building, what we un-builded in one turn time. Kind regards, Gathering Storm

this is the proposal, vmxa. Not the Trip sentence.

DeepO

	11-12-2004 04:54									#165
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message sent. Vondrack was last on line around 3h30 ago... I'll check when he reads it.

DeepO

	11-12-2004 04:56									#166
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That seems fine to me, sorry for any confusion.

	11-12-2004 05:13									#167
	Inflate your Upload Space

Yeah, great. "Legopolis has fallen" are the right words.

	11-12-2004 18:33									#170
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

one hour ago, Vondrack send me a message, but has since cancelled it. He read the above one, obviously, I don't know his response.

nye, if you haven't done so already, I guess this is the perfect time to send any comforting pm's to your friend.

DeepO

	11-12-2004 20:53									#171
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So far, no response from Vondrack (even if he is online). I'm tempted to post the battle report, but wil wait until CH has a chance to send the report to GoW.

I'm going to send it to RP as well... maybe a bit shortened and with more specific things for them.

DeepO

	11-12-2004 22:15									#172
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I just looked at the active box on the forum and Vondrack is active and so is Z from ND.

	11-12-2004 22:31									#173
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yeah, and Vondrack hasn't posted in the last 5 hours... I don't know if he is either just checking and reading from time to time, or if he's chatting...

DeepO

	11-12-2004 23:29									#174
	Increase Your PM Length

I'm going to catch some dinner, after which I intend to post the battle report. It should be somewhere close to 12 hours after Vondrack has read his message.

If anyone has any problems with this, please let me know asap (well, during the next 45 minutes or so anyway)

DeepO

	12-12-2004 00:38									#175
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At the very last moment, I found another mistake (forgot to mention we killed 6 inf in Stanwix.) Updated, and battle report posted.

DeepO

	12-12-2004 06:56									#176
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Public forum: It's only normal that they are complaining about the settler blitz... and it's much too early to get into a serious discussion about it. There is of course no way around it, it is a cheesy tactic. That doesn't mean you are defenseless against it.

I am not going to tell Lego yet that if they were so certain of this tactic could be used, they deliberately choose the all-or-nothing gamble. If we would be invaded, we would anticipate a settler blitz, and would try to cut our losses. But they gambled with very high stakes on a point defense; in order to keep as much as possible of their empire intact. If it would have worked, they may very well have demolished both invasion fleet with minimal damage themselves. If it doesn't work, this is the result.

It doesn't seem like they are taking it too personally, which is good. A second blow is coming with GoW's battle report. After that dust cloud settles, we might have a serious discussion on this. For the moment, let them cool off. They deserve that respect.

DeepO

	12-12-2004 07:16									#177
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

There is no list of banned exploits in this game, is there? I know there is in the first ISDG. If Lego was expecting us not to use Settler-blitzes, they should have spoken up a while ago.

No need to mention this in the public forum just yet, though...

	12-12-2004 07:26									#178
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae There is no list of banned exploits in this game, is there? I know there is in the first ISDG. If Lego was expecting us not to use Settler-blitzes, they should have spoken up a while ago. No need to mention this in the public forum just yet, though...

nope

And its not like this tactic is new, ND did this in the Bob war, and I suppose Inchon would be considered the same. And both were devastating in their own right, if not to scale.

And considering Lego used a defensive settler to block GoW's assault, I think its a tad hypocritical of them, but I understand their POV.

Maybe a "house rule" not to allow civilians on the battlefield is in order in PtWDG1.2?

	12-12-2004 07:29									#179
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there is a list of banned exploits... at least a couple of them got voted upon. Teleportation was ruled out. Chaining was ruled in (we were of course supporters) Build phase queue changes was ruled in, under the explicit assumption that no illegal gains were made (you can create too much commerce or use certain tiles twice by 2 different cities to gain more food or shields if you want to)

Combat settlers in itself, well... there have been 2 uses so far (not blitzing, obviously. While this is just as well possible in the early game, using settlers and horses). We build Inchon / off, which was generally applauded as the strategic accomplishment of the ancient era. ND built a camp, to extend their territory for one turn, attacking a RP city which they otherwise couldn't get too in the Bobian war. Again, this was generally accepted as a valid, smart maneuver. If they would have pushed through at that time, their 3-move ansars would have wiped out most of RP in one turn... no problem at all.

So this is a bit an emotional outcry. But an understandable one.

DeepO

	12-12-2004 07:32									#180
	Full PM-box? Change here!

whoops! I completely forgot about those rules. That was the time where we also were outvoted on the battle records