 |
|
JimmyCracksCorn
|
|
Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:20
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Did anyone tape it? |
Hopefully Imran will have some way of converting it... I think I remember him saying he'd tape it.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
OzzyKP
|
 |
Rockville, MD
Oct 1999
time: 00:20
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wiglaf
If some adults are immature, you do not necessarily let all immature people vote. It is a bit of a reach. |
But why then would you stop all youth from voting if some of them are immature? The fact is in any group you look at, some will be more informed than others. You can't punish the entire group because of the qualities of some. Also, for all age groups those individuals who are uninformed, unintelligent and immature aren't going to bother going to the polls on election day and casting a ballot in the first place. Its self regulating.
quote:
Originally posted by Wiglaf And I think the last thing anyone wants for the future of this country is politicians pandering to children. |
I bet the nation would do far better than having politicians pander to senior citizens. Seniors who really don't give a damn about the future, because they know they are only gonna see another 5-10 years of it themselves. So what do they care if social security is totally going bankrupt in 30 years, its not their problem. Youth have the necessity of taking a longer view of politics, because it'll affect them much longer. I'd rather have young people vote than seniors.
quote:
Originally posted by Wiglaf Also of concern is the potential "double-vote", in which parents convine their docile kids to vote for their same candidate. |
Then we need to make kids less docile.  But seriously, that exact same concern was voiced about giving women the right to vote. People said it would give husbands an extra vote. It was BS then, its BS now.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
JimmyCracksCorn
|
|
Macedonia - Sovereign country north of Greece.
Dec 2002
time: 05:20
|
|
I think older teens should be allowed to vote, maybe like 16+... but at the same time I wonder if it would bring election campaigns to an even lower level of idiocy than it is now.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Pekka
|
 |
em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:20
|
|
Wow, those were some good arguments OzzyKP!  I was not sure about this issue but now I really don't know.. I mean maybe younger folks should be able to vote..
And people say that well, it's important decision a citizen makes, thus we can't let kids vote because it affects oru future and kids are nto so smart. Well.. then again.. let's take a look at few things.
in the US, I think it's been pretty stated that most people will vote on character, they want a leader, a character basically, that they like. Other issues are secondary, though of course soem issues can make them NOT vote them. But that's the MAIN thing basically.
I claim, that kids are best judges of character. They are not restricted and they see through the BS better. And.. we say they aren't smart enough to vote, but look at many stupid people we have voting already. People who write worse than these kids. Read less than kids. Have done less school than kids. Prolly remember the presidents horrible worse than the kids. Are artiscally worse than kids. Don't read the papers. Can't use the internet. You know, kids can do these things. Adults sometimes read the comics only too.
And hells yeah, you see much pleasing of senior citizens, while I think they're great and society should look after them and make their remaning time as nice and fun as possible.. what about the youth? They always take the crap anyway, so they should have a say in it..
And let's face it.. many of us just when it comes to voting just.. wing it. 'hmm.. I don't know.. well.. ok him'.
But I don't know where the limit should be drawn.. I think 4 year olds shouldn't be qualified to vote. Maybe 16? 15? 14? Something like that.. I mean damn.. 14 year olds do know things. They read they learn, I think they'd be at least interested, 18 year old are more interested about the next party in college. 14 year olds have ntohing better to do.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
OzzyKP
|
|
Rockville, MD
Oct 1999
time: 00:20
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wiglaf
Ozzy I think you make good points, but there are still more concerns - the foremost being that kids just don't deal with the same issues. Most don't pay taxes, hold or want competitive jobs, try to pay off a mortgage, marry members of the same sex, etc. About the only relevant issue among the millions and millions of new eligible voters that you want would be the potential draft in Iraq or elsewhere. |
Exactly, kids don't deal with the same issues. They deal with different issues, which is why only they can represent their interests at the ballot box. You can't expect their grandparents or parents to always vote for their best interests.
As for issues that concern them, there is a lot. First and foremost, education. It affects them more than anyone. Also, every policy that gets passed has more effect on youth because they have to put up with it longer. Pass a law now, a senior citizen deals with it for 5-10 years, a teen deals with it for another 60-70 years. That's a huge difference. Because of that, teens see things longer term than their grandparents, and are more likely to support the environment, because they are the ones who are gonna have to be living through it all.
And yes, war is a huge concern. The person who teens couldn't vote for 4 years ago is sending them to war today. These are the people who are dying and bleeding for our nation and our freedom, it is a crime not to give them greater choice. It doesn't do any good to vote after the war starts and after you are already overseas. Voting should begin earlier.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Comrade Tassadar
|
|
quote:
And yes, war is a huge concern. The person who teens couldn't vote for 4 years ago is sending them to war today. These are the people who are dying and bleeding for our nation and our freedom, it is a crime not to give them greater choice. It doesn't do any good to vote after the war starts and after you are already overseas. Voting should begin earlier. |
This is your best argument.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Pekka
|
|
em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:20
|
|
Also they could return a greater interest, because they might feel more 'my vote counts' than young adults who might not feel so much it being a duty for them where as older people might take it as that when they vote.
Besides, why shouldn't the candidates and the president try to appel to the youth somehow. It doesn't mean they have to do live freestyling, but bring issues that concerns the youth more than just your basic 'more money to education' and stuff like that? They're citizens, so isn't the country theirs just as much as it is ours? And then the candidates really have to have more solid plans if the turn out in younger generation is to be great, because they have to appeal to them as well, that means things that concerns them, so they can't just mess it all up and do long term solutions on big issues that will later on back fire and cost more. Because the young folks could think 'man, this will affect me when I'm.27! No no no..'. So the future plans better be good, and also they have to make SENSE so they will be understood when they try to appeal to the youth, young folks recognize the spin doctors and call BS very quickly, simply because if the answer should be yes or no, and someone starts going great lenghts about something without yes or no in the answer, they know it was a bad answer. They don't even try to consider what he was spinning to get off the question, because they don't understand it. But BS is useless to understand.
Younger generations are proven to have higher IQs all the time, so also in the name of intelligence and smart, they should be voting already. If this is life experience they want from voters, so they can have a perspective and their vote is thus better.. well we seem to be forgetting every single promise and what ever political **** up after 3 months and keep on believing on a new thing that's exactly the same thing. I expect youngsters to remember these kinds of things better, because they tend to hold adults on promises.
People often say, when you're facing close paradox in politics, that it's realpolitiks for you stupid. Then we go on oversimplyfying things, but call BS on youngsters, because their dreams as to what those politicial issues to be pursued on would be 'that's not how world works'.. well.. why not? That's realpolitiks to you, just in a different package, because you both have good premise, but the outcome is what? realpolitiks  . In other words, it wasn't logical and pragmatic. The only thing is, we call our realpolitiks real, while kids don't understand the process of how things can get realistically done, so we blame them on being stupid on the process, but then again.. is one or the other any better?
Besides, we say young people shouldn't be able to vote because they don't have regular jobs, they don't pay so much taxes as adults do. Well, rich people pay even more taxes, should they have 2 votes? Should people who are on welfare have 0 votes? Who is to say..
I always thought that the limit should be 18, because under that you get lot of kids who never really understood the system, or how they work. But now I think, that they sometimes knwo it better than us, because heck, they just read about it in school and forgot about it, but we read about it in school a LONG time ago and forgot about it a LONG time ago. If we base it on being smart enough, then we clearly need to have a test so we can figure out who is smart enough to vote.
|
|
| |
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:20.
Apolyton Time is 00:20. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
24-10-2004 03:10
I think I responded to it pretty well.
ACK!
|