05-11-2004 07:02									#211
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Frankly, I don't care about Quebec's culture, etc. I just don't take their complaints at face value.

	05-11-2004 07:05									#212
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Plains of Abraham Quebec Act Know those, but not the rest (except Trudeau)

KrazyHorse is right in that a truly informed discussion of Cdn/quebec politics requires knowledge of the items he listed (although the tone was a tad harsh I think...). Personally I'm glad to see you have an interest in the ongoing experiment called Canada.

quote: Anyway, a large part of my dislike of the Quebecois comes from my visit there. They didn't strike me as particularly nice or welcoming to anyone else, even though I did everything in (badly accented) French. I also saw a lot of even open racism against the Amerindians there (we visited a reservation).

I too have had bad experiences in Quebec but I've also experienced rudeness in Toronto and just last summer I had the priviledge of experiencing the american brand of rudeness at Lake Placid. Are all Quebecers, Torontonians and Americans rude? Of course not. In fact many will tell you francophones can be a very generous and welcoming people.

	05-11-2004 07:10									#213
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Anyway, a large part of my dislike of the Quebecois comes from my visit there. They didn't strike me as particularly nice or welcoming to anyone else, even though I did everything in (badly accented) French. I also saw a lot of even open racism against the Amerindians there (we visited a reservation).

That surprises me, we are generally warm and welcoming to strangers. I think you may have just experienced uncourteous reactions due to a rising anti-Americanism during the Bush admin.

Also the racism against Amerindians is probably not worse than in other places. Where was the reservation you visited? those near the American borders are notorious for smuggling drugs and weapons, and the mafia there is actually so powerful that provinvial police won't go. This might explain the resentment you've seen.

Next time you go there you should tell me, I can be nice even with morons like you.

	05-11-2004 07:11									#214
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither It's already there. If you want more, lobby the Feds to mandate more, better info.

Dietary information is not really there.

Take your average can of coke.

Can you tell from the can how many calories it has? How much sugar it has? How much fat it has?

All it lists on it is integredients, which isn't dietary information as far as I'm concerned.

About 1/3 of the can is the French "Coca Cola", which is almost completely identical to the English one (except the French one says "Classique" instead...). That space would best be served with a traditional dietary table thing...

	05-11-2004 07:14									#215
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Stop being a moron, you can have both. It's not French that's preventing dietary information from being printed, it's the law that's too soft.

	05-11-2004 07:15									#216
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris Also the racism against Amerindians is probably not worse than in other places. Where was the reservation you visited? those near the American borders are notorious for smuggling drugs and weapons, and the mafia there is actually so powerful that provinvial police won't go. This might explain the resentment you've seen.

Well, here's an example: we went through a museum of early Quebec history, and all of the stuff was really slanted towards the "the Indians were barbarians, we're the civilized people" end of the spectrum. It was really surprising, since our textbooks tend to give a pretty frank admission of the genocide we inflicted.

	05-11-2004 07:15									#217
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quote: I too have had bad experiences in Quebec but I've also experienced rudeness in Toronto and just last summer I had the priviledge of experiencing the american brand of rudeness at Lake Placid. Are all Quebecers, Torontonians and Americans rude? Of course not. In fact many will tell you francophones can be a very generous and welcoming people.

The problem is, yes most Americans are rude, and yes most Torontians are rude, too.

But even more French/Quebec-people are rude to me, in my experiences.

One of my most vivid memories of Europe (with my American school mamy years ago), is how the clerk in a French convenience store pretended he couldn't speak English and was shouting at us in French and trying to rip everyone off majorly. Only 2 people out of the 20 on the trip spoke some French (everyone else was from the Spanish class, me and this other girl took French...), and he didn't know that -- he assumed we were all "dumb" Americans.

I said in probably broken, but understandable French, that I understand math, I understood the value of francs, and I know how much we should be paying. It was only then that he stopped screwing around.

	05-11-2004 07:17									#218
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quote: Originally posted by Asher The problem is, yes most Americans are rude, and yes most Torontians are rude, too. But even more French/Quebec-people are rude to me, in my experiences. One of my most vivid memories of Europe (with my American school mamy years ago), is how the clerk in a French convenience store pretended he couldn't speak English and was shouting at us in French and trying to rip everyone off majorly. Only 2 people out of the 20 on the trip spoke some French (everyone else was from the Spanish class, me and this other girl took French...), and he didn't know that -- he assumed we were all "dumb" Americans. I said in probably broken, but understandable French, that I understand math, I understood the value of francs, and I know how much we should be paying. It was only then that he stopped screwing around.

That's not a problem with french people being rude. It's a problem with you being american.

(luckily you're also Canadian, so you could get out of the situation)

	05-11-2004 07:18									#219
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	05-11-2004 07:18									#220
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Dietary information is not really there. Take your average can of coke. Can you tell from the can how many calories it has? How much sugar it has? How much fat it has? All it lists on it is integredients, which isn't dietary information as far as I'm concerned. About 1/3 of the can is the French "Coca Cola", which is almost completely identical to the English one (except the French one says "Classique" instead...). That space would best be served with a traditional dietary table thing...

Different products have different requirements (all subject to the all important regulations). Again, as I mentioned earlier these regs are currently under review. The new labels will be rolled out over the next few years.

This point is moot however. The lack of nutritional info is in no way b/c of bilingual product labels. Any package large enough to require product info can find space for both nutrition and french (and sometimes additional languages where markets warrant it).

	05-11-2004 07:19									#221
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris Stop being a moron, you can have both. It's not French that's preventing dietary information from being printed, it's the law that's too soft.

Space is finite, and since the French requirement is patently ridiculous outside of New Brunswick and Quebec, it should not apply at all.

I don't want both -- I don't want things in English provinces to be required to have French on them. It's wasteful and it's unnecessary.

	05-11-2004 07:19									#222
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Why not just copy the American labels?

	05-11-2004 07:23									#223
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Why not just copy the American labels?

And while we're at it, get the American recipe for Dr. Pepper. The Canadian one sucks.

	05-11-2004 07:25									#224
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Really, this seems to have all the important stuff on it - why reinvent the wheel?

random food label from google image search:

Attachment: 04_potato nutrition label.jpg
This has been downloaded 40 time(s).

	05-11-2004 07:27									#225
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That's exactly what I want, Kuci.

Of course, with the current laws, we'll need two of those -- one in French and one in English.

Good luck fitting two of those onto a can of Coke without removing the French branding.

	05-11-2004 07:28									#226
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris Also the racism against Amerindians is probably not worse than in other places. Where was the reservation you visited? those near the American borders are notorious for smuggling drugs and weapons, and the mafia there is actually so powerful that provinvial police won't go. This might explain the resentment you've seen. Well, here's an example: we went through a museum of early Quebec history, and all of the stuff was really slanted towards the "the Indians were barbarians, we're the civilized people" end of the spectrum. It was really surprising, since our textbooks tend to give a pretty frank admission of the genocide we inflicted.

Well, there might be a difference, considering neither the British nor the French, nor later the Canadians, went genocidal as a general rule towards Amerinds, although there was some pretty vicious stuff went on against allies of either side up to the conquest of Quebec.

We did have problems with paternalism though, and it seems you may have seen remenants of that.

	05-11-2004 07:31									#227
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Well, here's an example: we went through a museum of early Quebec history, and all of the stuff was really slanted towards the "the Indians were barbarians, we're the civilized people" end of the spectrum. It was really surprising, since our textbooks tend to give a pretty frank admission of the genocide we inflicted.

Oh, then you just happened to fall on a bunch of revisionists, there are some everywhere.

Not to justify the evils done, but it's a fact that the French were not nearly as bad with Amerindians as America was in the 19th century. Not because I think they were nicer people, but that there was so few of them they didn't need to steal their territory anyway.

	05-11-2004 07:32									#228
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris Oh, then you just happened to fall on a bunch of revisionists, there are some everywhere. Not to justify the evils done, but it's a fact that the French were not nearly as bad with Amerindians as America was in the 19th century. Not because I think they were nicer people, but that there was so few of them they didn't need to steal their territory anyway.

I hope you see the irony there...

EDIT: not to say you're wrong, it's just an interesting juxtaposition

	05-11-2004 07:35									#229
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Not really... I meant that there were few French, not that there were few Amerindians because they had been killed.

	05-11-2004 07:37									#230
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris Oh, then you just happened to fall on a bunch of revisionists, there are some everywhere. Not to justify the evils done, but it's a fact that the French were not nearly as bad with Amerindians as America was in the 19th century. Not because I think they were nicer people, but that there was so few of them they didn't need to steal their territory anyway.

Actually, I think it was more a policy by both the British and the French of coexistance. The land was huge. There was, and is, room for everyone.

That was certainly the policy carried forward after Confederation when the RCMP (NWMP) established, and kept, treaties with all the plains indians prior to large scale settlement coming West.

	05-11-2004 07:38									#231
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris Not really... I meant that there were few French, not that there were few Amerindians because they had been killed.

I know, that wasn't my point

	05-11-2004 07:40									#232
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Some day Quebec will just have to accept their inferior culture is no match for the Anglophone culture in this country.

They can ***** and moan all they want, but all they're going to get from it is a swift kick in the ass if they keep it up.

	05-11-2004 07:40									#233
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker I know, that wasn't my point

Yeah, whatever.

	05-11-2004 07:41									#234
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Asher, the one man argument for seperatism.

	05-11-2004 07:43									#235
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Some day Quebec will just have to accept their inferior culture is no match for the Anglophone culture in this country. They can ***** and moan all they want, but all they're going to get from it is a swift kick in the ass if they keep it up.

	05-11-2004 07:44									#236
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A fishing boat?

	05-11-2004 07:45									#237
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker A fishing boat?

It's called "troll fishing".

	05-11-2004 07:46									#238
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Trolls live under bridges, silly

	05-11-2004 07:48									#239
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Asher, the one man argument for seperatism.

Honestly, it's always been my dream to have Quebec do their usual *****ing and whining and threatening to separate, expecting to get more money again...then have the Prime Minister go "Okay, you asked for it. Here's your share of the debt, you cannot use Canadian currency, and you will no longer receive any funding from us. Have a nice day."

The panic in Quebec in the ensuing days would set them straight for decades.

	05-11-2004 07:49									#240
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Actually, you can't prevent us from using Canadian currency.