13-01-2005 00:08									#391
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I think a rogue is a tricky choice with the wizard (actually Sorc IIRC) as henchman, unless you get him to take more barbarian levels.

	14-01-2005 23:01									#392
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yeah just tell him to be a barbarian. that's what I did. I was a wizard, and I told the sorcerer/barbarian to concentrate on barbarian levels. worked out well.

	14-01-2005 23:57									#393
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Yeah he works quite well with mainly barb levels. NPCs that just have to tank (not that hard, even for the comp) are easiest generally and the player can easily cast nice early level buffing spells with the few sorc levels.

	17-01-2005 22:29									#394
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I'm a rogue level 2 and having fun so nerr :. It's fun so far.

	17-01-2005 22:53									#395
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Rogues are the funnest class

-Jam

	17-01-2005 23:17									#396
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rogues suck. but one of these days I'll try a strength based one. Instead of maxing out dexterity.

the problem is they could also use points in intelligence to get more skill points.

just not enough attribute points to go around.

	19-01-2005 17:18									#397
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True. Except when setting up I piled a few extra into wisdom so that I'm now Rogue (2) Cleric (1) - I took the trickery and air domains for roleplaying reasons, and will have to rely a heck of a lot more on stealth in future, rather than thinking I am actually capable of killing things.

Killed by gnolls.
I'm also kicking myself for using the ring to go downstairs in the first minute of the game, like I was told to (), because it meant that I used up my teleportation ring, and can't find another crystal to power it.

	19-01-2005 22:06									#398
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Owch. Rogue/Cleric is perhaps the toughest multiclass statwise.

You need some STR to hurt things and carry stuff
You need some DEX for rogue skills
You need some CON for sheer survival
You need some INT for skills again
You need some WIS for cleric spells
And you want at least a non-negative CHA for turning undead and domain powers.

Erm..

12
12
12
12
12
12

?

-Jam

	19-01-2005 22:09									#399
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That sounds almost like a certain ninja I know.

	20-01-2005 00:38									#400
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Rogue/Cleric multiclass suxors. Play a proper multiclass.

	20-01-2005 03:34									#401
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quote: Originally posted by Kassiopeia That sounds almost like a certain ninja I know.

A couple of 11s are needed and 13s too

BTW why the hell do we still have Xmas smilies?

-Jam

	21-01-2005 17:11									#402
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Each Christmas smiley you use gives you an extra skill point when you level up. But since you're already at Deity then it oughtn't matter.

I knew that rogue/cleric would be tough, and it is certainly proving to be, but I'm welcoming the challenge of fighting off some baby dragons at the moment, and terribly abusing the "Use ultimate power" artifact. I'm beginning to wish that I'd started as a ranger so that I'd get ambidexterity for free and be able to dual wield, but I'm not sure I can be bothered to play the small section of the first chapter I've done yet again. I'm planning (ultimately) a rogue/cleric/assassin/shadowdancer combo (just so I can get Hide in Plain Sight ), and fancied a few cleric levels rather than wizard for roleplaying reasons only. I'm hardly going to be overburdened with armour am I?

	21-01-2005 19:29									#403
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Nitpick: You can't have more than three classes in NWN. (In stock 3E and 3.5e, you can take levels in as many classes as you want-- Elminster, for example, is (IIRC) a Fighter 1/Rogue 2/Cleric 3/Wizard 20/Archmage 5.)

	21-01-2005 22:05									#404
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rogue/fighter works for me, even if it is bland.

	22-01-2005 00:12									#405
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quote: Originally posted by Vlad Antlerkov Nitpick: You can't have more than three classes in NWN. (In stock 3E and 3.5e, you can take levels in as many classes as you want-- Elminster, for example, is (IIRC) a Fighter 1/Rogue 2/Cleric 3/Wizard 20/Archmage 5.)

Sounds a bit greedy to me.

	22-01-2005 19:40									#406
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quote: I'm beginning to wish that I'd started as a ranger so that I'd get ambidexterity for free and be able to dual wield...

Ranger Dualwield is a little broken. You see, to really dualwield properly you'll want to pick up Improved Dualwielding at around 9th level (2 attacks with Off Hand) However, the prereqs for that are Dual Wielding and Ambidex. Not Ranger Dualwield which gives you the advantages of those feats without the actual feat.

However if you don't care about maxing your character to the limits

-Jam

	22-01-2005 22:26									#407
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yes the only reason to play a ranger is for role play. I chose a ranger for the dungeon of apolyton.

a fighter is superior because they get more feats. By level 7 I believe they can already exceed the ranger at everything they do. except for the spells and enemy. .

I think the 3.5 rules should have some other bonus for rangers. Namely a bonus to their bow abilities. This would further distinguish them apart from fighters.

	23-01-2005 00:04									#408
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3.5 rules nerf rangers. D8 instead of D10 for HP... Ranger feats gained at higher levels... weaker animal companions...

Bleh.

-Jam

	23-01-2005 23:27									#409
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski 3.5 rules nerf rangers. D8 instead of D10 for HP... Ranger feats gained at higher levels... weaker animal companions... Bleh. -Jam

In 1st Edition they were D8 for HP also, no animal companion.

However, at first level there starting HP were determined by 2D8, and an additional D8 thereafter.

ACK!

	23-01-2005 23:42									#410
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don't you mean 2D4?

Rangers should have the same hit points as fighters. Like I said, fighters get more feats, and can easily choose 2 weapon fighting and ambidexterity and still have many more feats than the ranger does. They just lower out on the animal companion, racial enemy, and the low level priest spells.

	23-01-2005 23:58									#411
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That was my thought too, though someone did link not that long ago to a powerful ranger build. Read back and see if you can find it.

	24-01-2005 00:05									#412
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I realy liked the ranger spells. they get that decent endure elements type spell early on. Mostly useful if I am running round on me own PW style. I went ranger/sd once and the spells went quite well with that.

	24-01-2005 00:55									#413
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident don't you mean 2D4? Rangers should have the same hit points as fighters. Like I said, fighters get more feats, and can easily choose 2 weapon fighting and ambidexterity and still have many more feats than the ranger does. They just lower out on the animal companion, racial enemy, and the low level priest spells.

No, I mean 2d8.

ACK!

	24-01-2005 00:59									#414
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski 3.5 rules nerf rangers. D8 instead of D10 for HP... Ranger feats gained at higher levels... weaker animal companions... Bleh. -Jam

no, much better for rangers

because there were the two options (so could go bow)

skills are worse though (but that is because druids get all the ranger skills, and so the ranger is less worth while)

Jon Miller

	24-01-2005 01:13									#415
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Rangers get hide and sneak in nwn

	24-01-2005 01:43									#416
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller no, much better for rangers because there were the two options (so could go bow) skills are worse though (but that is because druids get all the ranger skills, and so the ranger is less worth while) Jon Miller

Yes, but because fighters get 150% more feats (wow) they can take the bow feats AND the dual wield feats AND even more feats and get more HP and get weapon specialisation and only lose out on favoured enemy (nerfed in 3.5), a handful of weak spells, and a pet doggie.

Rangers

-Jam

	24-01-2005 02:12									#417
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And search and listen and spot. They are great self sufficient characters. Weapon spec is overrated IMO, and as favoured enemy gives you at least +1 damage (and more!) and by 5th level youve got weapon spec vs undead + er...humans?

Extra fighter feats are great and all, but its easy enough to get all the feats you need with a ranger, surely? especially with the 3 free dual weapon feat they get by 9th

And whats this HP hit?

Im not arguing that rangers are underpowered, but I still think they are great

	24-01-2005 02:45									#418
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rangers are great, esp. for role playing. I just think they should have d10 hit points.

	24-01-2005 02:57									#419
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike That was my thought too, though someone did link not that long ago to a powerful ranger build. Read back and see if you can find it.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...976#post3485976

I never formally wrote out how to put together that build, actually.

Also, here's my attempt to add WM levels to a ranger build, which is formally written out:

http://nwn.bioware.com/guilds_regis...176438&gid=8061

	24-01-2005 05:11									#420
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the problem with rangers is when you compare them to druids

rangers are suppose to be three things:
mini clerics (spell casting and animal companion)
mini fighters (fighter BAB and special feats)
outdoor rogues (skills)

the problem is that druids also have the skills

you aren't losing rangers to fighters (for the most part), you are losing rangers to druids

Jon Miller