05-11-2004 07:44									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse I saw some research which showed these kind of "moral" issues were higher in voter concerns than IRAQ in many of the "heartland" stated that voted for Bush.

In the US overall.

According to the CNN poll, moral issues were the most important issues for 21% of the voters. By comparison, Iraq was the main concern of 15%, and the economy 11%. Education and healthcare were primary concerns for less than 10% of the voters each.

	05-11-2004 07:44									#32
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[quote]A good example is the Bush is stupid rhetoric.

a. He isn't stupid and

b. this implies those who voted for him are stupid too. [/quote[

He is stupid and so are those who voted for him.

Why do you assume that I want to influence those who voted for him?

	05-11-2004 07:46									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon [quote]A good example is the Bush is stupid rhetoric. a. He isn't stupid and b. this implies those who voted for him are stupid too. [/quote[ He is stupid and so are those who voted for him. Why do you assume that I want to influence those who voted for him?

because they made up 51% of the vote and about 30 extra EV votes?

	05-11-2004 07:46									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident let's go over a few tips for liberals. This is why you lost the election. Crap like: Bush is hitler. Driving SUV's supports terrorists. The U.S. must answer to the rest of the world. Hollywood actors and other musicians around the country acting like they know more than average americans hypocritical liberals driving big suv's and living in mansions when they expect other people (especially rich people) to give these things up Not all of these were said by Kerry. But it doesn't matter. They were said by liberals and Kerry is a liberal. This is why Kerry lost the election.

This is very good.

	05-11-2004 07:47									#35
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During my campaign, I made a point not talking down the people, even those whom I considered having a stupid / unacceptable point of view. That must be my "teacher" aspect.

I think I earned some respect by those people I didn't talk down, and whose I listened patiently. However, I didn't earn their votes. My positions were different from theirs, as they were inherently complex, which went completely opposite to their demands for simple, immediately understanble solutions.

	05-11-2004 07:48									#36
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quote: because they made up 51% of the vote and about 30 extra EV votes?

But I don't care if your country goes to the dogs.

	05-11-2004 07:48									#37
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I'm afraid the liberal left fails to grasp the point that its cold comfort being "right" when you don't have the power.

You need to get the power first. Then you can do things.

	05-11-2004 07:49									#38
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Bush mentioned the internets... maybe a democrat should do that.

	05-11-2004 07:50									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse I'm afraid the liberal left fails to grasp the point that its cold comfort being "right" when you don't have the power. You need to get the power first. Then you can do things.

But what can the Dems give up without giving up their core beliefs?

	05-11-2004 07:51									#40
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Good points, Horsie, but it doesn;t seem as if you are getting many takers.

	05-11-2004 07:52									#41
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Stupidity == cute, good! Intellectualism == arrogant, bad!

2050: I'm so glad the capital is Beijing

	05-11-2004 07:53									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Zulu Elephant lol. Thats why it's sometimes hard to resist talking down to people. "Well, I was gonna vote for Kerry but, goddamnit, he didn't have no pickup truck"

A lot of Bush voters said they trusted him more because they could relate to him. When Kerry couldn't give them a compelling reason to vote for him, they naturally went with the person they had a greater identification with.

	05-11-2004 07:53									#43
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I should spend my spare time knee capping hopeless dreamy left liberals in the Australian Labor Party in the hope of making the party electable again.

	05-11-2004 07:55									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor During my campaign, I made a point not talking down the people, even those whom I considered having a stupid / unacceptable point of view. That must be my "teacher" aspect. I think I earned some respect by those people I didn't talk down, and whose I listened patiently. However, I didn't earn their votes. My positions were different from theirs, as they were inherently complex, which went completely opposite to their demands for simple, immediately understanble solutions.

But you have that 'luxury' as you are not really in it to win it.

	05-11-2004 07:55									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse I'm afraid the liberal left fails to grasp the point that its cold comfort being "right" when you don't have the power. You need to get the power first. Then you can do things.

This is a problem of ethics. I understand a seasoned politician will have no problem lying on his intentions, and making some Bald Assertions to flatter the public, when his own opinions are far more complex than that.

However, I do consider this demagogic stance as patronizing. I personally prefer losing while respecting the people, instead of winning by insulting them. Of course, the worst is to lose while insulting the voters. That's what mainstream liberals do. For us in the fringe parties, we lose so often we can't get sore.

	05-11-2004 07:56									#46
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quote: Originally posted by alva But you have that 'luxury' as you are not really in it to win it.

True.

	05-11-2004 07:57									#47
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Communists don't sneer. We throw bricks.

	05-11-2004 07:57									#48
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Let's be honest, people: both Kerry and Bush were morons. Coincidentally, both are Mac users.

	05-11-2004 07:58									#49
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I swear to god! If Jefferson, Madison and the rest turned up today, they'd be derided as ivory tower intellectuals and be shot.

Jefferson would need one hell of a pick up truck to be accepted into US politics nowadays.

	05-11-2004 07:58									#50
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quote: Communists don't sneer. We throw bricks.

After beating the bricklayer to death for not having a party membership.

	05-11-2004 07:59									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse I should spend my spare time knee capping hopeless dreamy left liberals in the Australian Labor Party in the hope of making the party electable again.

Sounds like a plan.

We have a 'Liberal' government, again, precisely because they aren't too liberal for the electorate.

	05-11-2004 07:59									#52
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Nothing to see here.

	05-11-2004 07:59									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Asher That the best democrat came from the north?

That the last northern democrat was elected over 40 years ago. *sigh*

I have no problem being nice to morons- hell, I do that every day in my job. Horsie's right in that in order to get into power, you have to put up someone who is likeable and connects with the average american (i.e., a 'dixiecrat'). Clinton put forth some decent social programs as pres, we just need someone with a bit more spine when it comes to dealing with the insurance industry, mega-corps, and repugs- as well as an initial desire to stand up to them in the 1st place.

	05-11-2004 08:00									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Let's be honest, people: both Kerry and Bush were morons. Coincidentally, both are Mac users.

	05-11-2004 08:00									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Let's be honest, people: both Kerry and Bush were morons. Coincidentally, both are Mac users.

You're starting to take the Apple thingy to far, dude

	05-11-2004 08:01									#56
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quote: Jefferson would need one hell of a pick up truck to be accepted into US politics nowadays.

Wasn't Jefferson a farmer? I would suggest at least a half-ton.

	05-11-2004 08:01									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor This is a problem of ethics.

No it isn't - tip for liberals - when your opponent gets in the gutter, climb right on down there with them and slug it out.

The "high moral ground" is another example of hopelessly conceited liberal political condescension to voters.

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

	05-11-2004 08:01									#58
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quote: Let's be honest, people: both Kerry and Bush were morons. Coincidentally, both are Mac users.

Who wants to bet that Badnarik uses Windows.

	05-11-2004 08:04									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Who wants to bet that Badnarik uses Windows.

Are you kidding? With all of the NSA backdoors Libertarians say exist in Windows?

He's likely a Linux user.

	05-11-2004 08:04									#60
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quote: No it isn't - tip for liberals - when your opponent gets in the gutter, climb right on down there with them and slug it out.

Why should we care? The quickest road to socialism is to let the tax cutters have free reign and destroy the economy.