05-11-2004 09:46									#121
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

It is going to be pretty cool being bohemian in some parts of the US now. After all the whole idea of it is to annoy the God-fearing and virtuous.

	05-11-2004 09:46									#122
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by GePap NO we haven't: this whole "act like normal people", reach out to the "normal people" is bull. Bush won with 51% percent- that only 1% more than half the voters. The 48% are all eastern establishment liberals? Right- so, the country is made up of 2 types of people, 51% are "normal" and 48% are "Liberal Elites", well, righty-OH Talking about "the common people" already is playing into republican hands that some suburban white guy in Colodaro Springs is more "normal" than some black woman in the Bronx. BULL. We need to define the values of America, and its startys by dropping the "normal peiople" ****. They don;t exists. America is made up of a grand variety of different groups- the idea is getting behind a set of values that can bring the larges number of these different sets together in a common cause.

The reason why, and possibly the sole reason, the election was so close was Iraq. That is the one defining issue that gave Democrats their edge. Without it they would be battling on social and pure 9/11 issues. Bush has the edge on 9/11 issues and Dems have the usual social edge. Conclusion: Bush wins, by 10%.

	05-11-2004 09:47									#123
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Sprayber What was Kerry's position on gay marriage?

On record, he has voted against amendments defining marriage as between a man and a woman

In public, he and Edwards said that they saw marriage as between a man and a woman, but supported unions between gays, with all the same rights that marriage provides (whatever that means)


He may have sold out the gays, but he didn't actively go after them in the mean spirited, discriminatory way the like the Republicans did

	05-11-2004 09:48									#124
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: The reason why, and possibly the sole reason, the election was so close was Iraq. That is the one defining issue that gave Democrats their edge. Without it they would be battling on social and pure 9/11 issues. Bush has the edge on 9/11 issues and Dems have the usual social edge. Conclusion: Bush wins, by 10%.

Yer forgetting about the economy.

	05-11-2004 09:49									#125
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: The reason why, and possibly the sole reason, the election was so close was Iraq. That is the one defining issue that gave Democrats their edge. Without it they would be battling on social and pure 9/11 issues. Bush has the edge on 9/11 issues and Dems have the usual social edge. Conclusion: Bush wins, by 10%. Yer forgetting about the economy.

The economy is no longer an issue. The recession was over, far over, in April. People did not connect the poor economy with the President.

	05-11-2004 09:50									#126
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

NATIONAL ECONOMY

Good (43%) Bush 87%

	05-11-2004 09:50									#127
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The jobs market still hasn't fully recovered

That's what really matters

It is better though

	05-11-2004 09:50									#128
	Remove this text

quote: After all the whole idea of it is to annoy the God-fearing and virtuous.

Does that mean you are planning to move down there?

	05-11-2004 09:50									#129
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Harry Tuttle The reason why, and possibly the sole reason, the election was so close was Iraq. That is the one defining issue that gave Democrats their edge. Without it they would be battling on social and pure 9/11 issues. Bush has the edge on 9/11 issues and Dems have the usual social edge. Conclusion: Bush wins, by 10%.

BY what you claim, there would be no "Iraq" without "terrorism", since they are part of the same struggle, NO?

Bush won because he and the republicans had a better ground organization and mobilized more religious voters than the dems did young and minorities and their cores.

	05-11-2004 09:50									#130
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: He may have sold out the gays, but he didn't actively go after them in the mean spirited, discriminatory way the like the Republicans did.

It was pretty horrible. "Get out and vote against those godless fags and their sodomite ways!!!!"

I'm surprised that MrFun seems to be the only homosexual on Poly that has expressed any significant distress about the Repug gaybaiting.

	05-11-2004 09:51									#131
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker The jobs market still hasn't fully recovered That's what really matters It is better though

Exactly, it's better, not worse. The recovery began in early 2004. It just wasn't a hot button issue.

	05-11-2004 09:51									#132
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither NATIONAL ECONOMY Good (43%) Bush 87%

And the 57% who did not think it was "good"?

	05-11-2004 09:52									#133
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

In my opinon it's not good enough and I do honestly blame Bush for that

But I give him props for the unemployment extensions that he put out after 9/11

	05-11-2004 09:53									#134
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Harry Tuttle Exactly, it's better, not worse. The recovery began in early 2004. It just wasn't a hot button issue.

Its better than 2002, much worse than 2000, when Bush got elected. Lets all remember his great jobs accomplishment- to share a spot with Herbert hoover on job creation is a hard thing to do.

	05-11-2004 09:53									#135
	Tired of ads?

quote: Does that mean you are planning to move down there?

I might end up there. Most of the jobs in my field this year are in the States. I don't think I will get one this year though, I don't have enough on my CV yet. Still, it costs very little and is worth a shot.

I can corrupt it from within.

	05-11-2004 09:53									#136
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker The jobs market still hasn't fully recovered That's what really matters It is better though

IS U.S. GOING IN RIGHT DIRECTION?

Yes (49%) Bush 89%

	05-11-2004 09:54									#137
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by GePap And the 57% who did not think it was "good"?

The 43% was by far the largest group. That's where he won.

	05-11-2004 09:54									#138
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by GePap BY what you claim, there would be no "Iraq" without "terrorism", since they are part of the same struggle, NO? Bush won because he and the republicans had a better ground organization and mobilized more religious voters than the dems did young and minorities and their cores.

No, I'm not, really. I should have been more clear. Bush was the benevolent President when he went into Afghanistn. Almost everyone was behind him. If you take out Iraq, which was where the turning point began, he would still be the President who just went after the terrorists, not the one that "started an illegal war".

And yes, I would say that the Republicans have always been more organized on the grass roots level, I can attest to that.

	05-11-2004 09:54									#139
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither IS U.S. GOING IN RIGHT DIRECTION? Yes (49%) Bush 89%

CNN poll:

Are you optimisitic about Bush's second term in office?

NO 59%

Point?

	05-11-2004 09:55									#140
	Remove this text

quote: I might end up there. Most of the jobs in my field this year are in the States. I don't think I will get one this year though, I don't have enough on my CV yet. Still, it costs very little and is worth a shot.

We'll be using the same means to acheive opposite ends, I suppose.

In any case, good luck with that.

	05-11-2004 09:55									#141
	Tired of ads?

No, that is not. the 19% of the voting public who said the economy was their biggest concern overwhelmingly backed Kerry.

Do look at the data out there, why don;t you?

Bush won based on the opiniopns of those who said they were voting on moral values, or to whom the "war on terror" was the most important choice of all.

	05-11-2004 09:57									#142
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Alright, I'm not going to try and argue job creation as it relates to a President. Really, we can all agree that the President can do little when it comes to tunring an economy around, barring tax cuts or federal help to the unemployed. Really, it's a free market. Saying that Bush or Clinton or Hoover made or broke an economy does not work.

	05-11-2004 09:59									#143
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Harry Tuttle Alright, I'm not going to try and argue job creation as it relates to a President. Really, we can all agree that the President can do little when it comes to tunring an economy around, barring tax cuts or federal help to the unemployed. Really, it's a free market. Saying that Bush or Clinton or Hoover made or broke an economy does not work.

Sure it does.

	05-11-2004 09:59									#144
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

The Federa government can undertake all sorts of policies that directly affect workers. More importantly, the fact the economy is not creating workers with any real success belies the presidents claim that his tax measures are job creation engines.

I would agree with you that perthaps macro-economic structural changes have made job creation harder-0 but then it is up to the government to try to alliviate the suffering that will go on during any significant economic shift.

	05-11-2004 10:00									#145
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker CNN poll: Are you optimisitic about Bush's second term in office? NO 59% Point?

I'm trying to show you through exit polls where Bush won the race. If you don't want to listen, and go back to increasingly innaccurate polls that only support your views, then be my guest to support a party that won't win in the foreseeable future.

Trust me. I know the feeling. I've been railing against Liberals in my country for near 20 years, and prospects are I will be for another 10 or more until the Tories smarten up.

	05-11-2004 10:00									#146
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Sure it does.

To the uninformed, sure, but we're somewhat informed here on Poly, aren't we?

	05-11-2004 10:01									#147
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I'm trying to show you through exit polls where Bush won the race. If you don't want to listen, and go back to increasingly innaccurate polls that only support your views, then be my guest to support a party that won't win in the foreseeable future. Trust me. I know the feeling. I've been railing against Liberals in my country for near 20 years, and prospects are I will be for another 10 or more until the Tories smarten up.

Next time put captions and explanations on your posts so we know what you are talking about.

Here is my next post:

quote: 3 Kerry 36% (16) I'd hit it.

	05-11-2004 10:02									#148
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I'm trying to show you through exit polls where Bush won the race. If you don't want to listen, and go back to increasingly innaccurate polls that only support your views, then be my guest to support a party that won't win in the foreseeable future. Trust me. I know the feeling. I've been railing against Liberals in my country for near 20 years, and prospects are I will be for another 10 or more until the Tories smarten up.

You realize those numbers make 0 sense in the way you are trying to intepret them?

Bush did NOT win because people were happy with the economy- he won despite the fact many people are angfry about it- enought people don't care about the eocnomy and voted about other things to get him elected.

	05-11-2004 10:04									#149
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by GePap enought people don't care about the eocnomy and voted about other things to get him elected.

Exactly. Which brings us back to how the Democrats can win in 2008.

	05-11-2004 10:05									#150
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Harry Tuttle To the uninformed, sure, but we're somewhat informed here on Poly, aren't we?

Or uninformed = someone that doesn't agree with me