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Whoha
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The TOC is supposed to be classified guys...
Dec 2001
time: 23:19
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
As you may know, I'm currently on unemployment (my last month, also). I get enough to pay rent, with $300 left over for phone, DSL, electricity, and food. It's not enough, so I tried to get charity to help with the electric bill.
First they told me they couldn't help unless the power company was threatening to to cut off the power. Now that the power company is doing just that, I can't get through to any of the charities to get help. They are swamped with calls.
There's too many people in need and not enough private charity to go around. And some people want more of this. 
BTW, this is not a "help us thread," just a complaint about the idea that private charities are an answer and better than the government. |
how did the government cheese job work out?
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:19
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quote:
So, how much did you give last year? |
None - why should I, when I'm already forced to give through taxes for social programs?
quote:
A society has a moral obligation to help its least fortunate members. |
I'm not sure what you think that's based on. From a utilitarian perspective, what do "the least fortunate" actually contribute? The answer seems to be a little less than nothing. From a perspective of freedom, why do the least fortunate have a lien on my income? After all, it's mine.
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:19
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Imran,
quote:
'Cause you've benefited from society's protections. |
The "least fortunate" certainly aren't contributing to my protection.
Dissident,
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I think of it as lunch money to keep them from bullying you and breaking into your home |
That's what police and prisons are for. I'll pay for more police and more prisons to lock thiefs up than I'll pay for social welfare programs. Need doesn't justify stealing, and those who steal belong in prison, period.
UR,
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1. It's a basic belief. |
Not one held by me, and even if it were, it's a PERSONAL belief that should be carried out on a voluntary personal basis.
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2. Utilitarian: helping the least fortunate members leads to a greater overall happiness. |
Then again, letting those who don't contribute starve to death simply means more for those who do contribute, right?
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3. Rawlsian: the Original Position and Veil of Ignorance leads to this conclusion. |
Oh bullshit - Rawls "Veil of Ignorance" is a load of hypothetical **** that has nothing to do with the real world, and it's a position that expressly ignores morality in favor of what amounts to the general will.
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So you are not practising what you preach? |
I've always said that I'd be more than willing to consider donating voluntarily once I'm no longer forced to do so by the government.
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1. Take 1% away from a very rich person.
2. The money feeds and clothes 1000 poor.
QED |
And what does "happiness" have to do with the strength of a society, especially when that happiness is created by forcing those who earn money to give it to those who don't? Why not just let the poor die if they can't support themselves, or find private help? If they aren't around, their happiness is irrelevant, right?
che,
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So despite the fact that taxes have gone down, resulting in a deficit for charities, you feel no desire to help take up the slack? You aren't going to donate anything to charity until you pay zero taxes? |
My taxes haven't gone down, and no, I'm not willing to donate to charity AND get screwed by the government. The way I see it, the taxes I'm forced to pay into social programs are my contribution, and if the government misuses what it takes, that isn't my problem. If they were interested in efficiency, they'd privatize the whole thing.
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:19
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quote:
Most libertarians would not donate any of their money to charity, ever. |
Why?
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:19
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quote:
Empirical evidence from all the libertarians I know. Please refute with personal evidence. I would like to be proved wrong. |
Sure. In the past, I've donated money to United Way, the Salvation Army, and various churches.
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David Floyd
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The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:19
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So consider yourself at least partially refuted.
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All times are GMT. The time now is 05:19.
Apolyton Time is 00:19. |
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07-11-2004 08:12
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