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Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Civilization III > Civ3-PtW Democracy Game > C3PtWDG Gathering Storm > Turn 243: 1265 AD
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DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:19
  Old Post 13-11-2004 19:07
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forces

(- 2 galley)
- 14 art
- 26 workers (+1/turn) (+1 B)
- 7 settlers (+.20/turn) (+2 B, -5 LiB)
- 20 rifle
- 40 inf (2 upgraded last turn)
- 55 Marines (+8/turn) (+8 B, -8 LiB)
- 68 tanks (+0/turn) (-2 LiB)
- 19 MI (+1/turn) (+1 B, +2 U)
- 11 DD (-9 LiB)
- 22 transports (-5 LiB)
- 2 carrier
- 0 sub (-2 lost in combat)
- 3 explorer (+ .14/turn) (-1 LiB)
- 2 fighter (+0/turn)

- Strong in strength to GoW, to ND, and to Lego.

Legoland forces:

- 2 settler
- 14 worker (-3)
- 3 horsemen (-1)
- 12 Cavalry (-13)
- 91 infantry (+2)
- 62 artillery
- 27 Tanks (+11)
- 6 ironclad (-1 LiB)
- 15 transport
- 10 subs (-1 LiB)
- 9 DD (-1 LiB, +3 B)
- 9 BB
- 1 carrier
- 3 bomber (+1 B)

DeepO

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
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Jan 2002
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  Old Post 13-11-2004 19:14
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In reviewing last turn threads, I must have made a mistake a while ago, and still continued on the same idea: we never had a 2/4 DD in our stack, we used it to attack U-Q1 2 turns ago.

I think we've got problems. If Sando is blocked (and it looks that way), we only have Quanto or Forkmouth which we can invade. Or, land everything near a city... possibly at Quanto 21. If there are only 4 targets, it means we can expect over 20 defenders in each of them... not good!

So far, I'm not playing farther, but the next things I'd like to do is to investigate Quanto, and possibly Forkmouth. Sando not at this moment, if we can't reach it, we don't need to spend money on knowing how (un)defended it is.

DeepO

DeepO is offline DeepO

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Jan 2002
time: 06:19
  Old Post 13-11-2004 19:16
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and a recap: we lost 8 M, 5 S, 2 T, 1 E in the attack.

Also, I don't think we can chain troops into Quanto if something like that is needed, but let me look at this more carefully before saying something definate. We can always disband troops to replace them with 8 M (or 6 M and 2 S)

DeepO

DeepO is offline DeepO

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Jan 2002
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  Old Post 13-11-2004 19:23
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The attackers from our N fleet were:
- 5/5 BB
- 4/5 BB
- 3/5 BB
- 4/4 BB
- 2x 2/4 BB
- 1/4 BB
- 2x 1/4 DD
- 3/4 Sub

we can currently see all but the 4/5 BB and the 3/4 Sub. Anyone want to bet that that 4/5 BB is at Sando 7? The Sub, I don't know (nor care for atm)

DeepO

DeepO is offline DeepO

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Jan 2002
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  Old Post 13-11-2004 19:27
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Those workers were used to pump Jackson back to size again. The coal is still unconnected. And now I can see the GoW airport

DeepO

DeepO is offline DeepO

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Jan 2002
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  Old Post 13-11-2004 19:33
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If Quanto would be too well defended (which it should by now), the 2 only landing posts are Quanto 21, or Quanto 2. Both offer 50% defense bonus, which we'll need. We will have 47 M defending before our T, which should be enough to ensure we will still be there next turn. But those arts are going to hurt.

Both spots have direct attack possibilities to Quanto, but Abilene can only be attacked from the Q21 tile. If we land on Q2, we need to disband Q before we can reach it.

I wonder how many defenders are in that fort.

DeepO

alva is offline alva
Emperor
Republic of Flanders
Sep 2001
time: 06:19
  Old Post 13-11-2004 19:41
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When is GOW supposed to land? This turn right?
We could do a tactical retreat, or sail down further.

DeepO is offline DeepO

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Jan 2002
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  Old Post 13-11-2004 19:46
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Okay, this is the plan for now:
1. First of all, investigate Quanto. It should be too heavily defended, but you never know. We calculated everything at 14 I (needing 56M), we'll see how far we are over this limit.

2. Possibly, investigate Forkmouth. Landing at Forkmouth has the problem that we are going to need to land our S fleet anyway, as we otherwise can't keep it safe. We could sail out to sea, but in that case we can't reach Forkmouth next turn either. So this scenario is unlikely

3. In case Quanto is doable, or both Quanto and Forkmouth are too well-defended, we sail a TR over to Q4 to have some recon. Best to use a TR with 8 M, as they are the least costly right now. We can run into a sub.

Normally, this should lead to a decision on whether to land in Q, on Q21 or Q2.

DeepO

DeepO is offline DeepO

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  Old Post 13-11-2004 19:47
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GoW is supposed to land on this turn as well, yes. They too will be seriously hampered by our defeat last turn.

Tactical retreat: I don't know. We always have to keep it in mind, but I don't think it would help us right now. There are a lot of warships nearby, and only very few defenders left... we would lose more transports. Possibly a lot more.

DeepO

DeepO is offline DeepO

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  Old Post 13-11-2004 19:55
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We could of course also use the fighter in the S fleet to scout for us. But there are bombers nearby.... air superiority would help us

DeepO

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King
Birmingham UK
Jun 2002
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  Old Post 13-11-2004 19:58
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quote:
Originally posted by DeepO

3. In case Quanto is doable, or both Quanto and Forkmouth are too well-defended, we sail a TR over to Q4 to have some recon. Best to use a TR with 8 M, as they are the least costly right now. We can run into a sub.


Using a fighter for recon might be good, damn lucky to get the spy in so we can investigate their cities.

DeepO is offline DeepO

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  Old Post 13-11-2004 19:59
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Yeah, that was pure luck. Even if it doesn't matter that much, we should keep some money aside to do the same to Lego... They most likely won't get so lucky next turn.

DeepO

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Jan 2002
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  Old Post 13-11-2004 20:02
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I'll be leaving right now, but normally I should be back in a couple of hours, after which I've got the whole evening / night to play. I guess that will be better to get the whole team in on this. I don't think there is going to be a problem with investigating Quanto, but perhaps someone has another idea on how to proceed.

DeepO

Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
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Apr 2002
time: 05:19
  Old Post 13-11-2004 20:18
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If the assault fails to damage Lego, might ND be interested in contributing? They'll be happy to let others do the work of taking down their main rival, but if that attempt fails, they might have to get involved.

Cort Haus is offline Cort Haus
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Apr 2002
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  Old Post 13-11-2004 20:27
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Now that Lego has overwhelming naval superiority, we are unlikely to be able to maintain a supply line. We have to land what we've got somewhere - there's no turning back - but if things continue to go against us, ND involvement may be needed for GAUL's work to be done.

Shiber is offline Shiber
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Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:19
  Old Post 13-11-2004 21:42
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
As for cheating, please don't get carried away, Shiber.


Don't take me too seriously.

vmxa1 is offline vmxa1
Deity
Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:19
  Old Post 13-11-2004 22:10
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I take any breaks we can get.

vulture is offline vulture
King
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Jun 2001
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  Old Post 13-11-2004 22:40
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Can a fighter doing recon spot subs? I've always been under the impression that they couldn't, but I may be getting mixed up with Panzer General...

vmxa1 is offline vmxa1
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Nov 2001
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  Old Post 13-11-2004 22:58
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I don't see ND coming in on a failed attempt. If we fail to do serious damage to Lego, they will be in a posiion to punish anyone they want and I doubt ND want any part of that.

Krill is offline Krill
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Dec 2003
time: 05:19
  Old Post 13-11-2004 23:06
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If we fail now, then we had better get a move on and try for an SS win.

DeepO is offline DeepO

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Jan 2002
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  Old Post 13-11-2004 23:11
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a fighter on recon: I don't think it will spot a sub. Not sure, though.

I'll continue... nobody seem to mind investigating Quanto. pics are coming shortly.

DeepO

Aeson is offline Aeson
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orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:19
  Old Post 13-11-2004 23:16
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- 2 settler
- 14 worker (-3)
- 3 horsemen (-1)
- 12 Cavalry (-13)
- 91 infantry (+2)
- 62 artillery
- 27 Tanks (+11)
- 6 ironclad (-1 LiB)
- 15 transport
- 10 subs (-1 LiB)
- 9 DD (-1 LiB, +3 B)
- 9 BB
- 1 carrier
- 3 bomber (+1 B)

They still have to defend 5 cities. Quanto, Fork, Abilene, Jackson, Dye. Fork could be blockaded by Subs we couldn't get through (without big losses) though. That gives them 18-19 Inf per city. 5-6 Tanks per city. If they are leaving their interior completely empty, which I doubt.

-------------

We could try bombarding Forkmouth 1 and see if there is a sub there. (Or someone could check in the editor to see if Fighters have "spot sub" capabilities.)

-------------

I think we can still reasonably hit Abilene, and cover most of our Troops well. Investigate Quanto and Abilene. If Abilene is a better target than Quanto...

First thing, a 3/4 DD (it's going to be sunk next turn)from the S fleet moves 69888 to check for Subs. Now a 4/4 DD from the S fleet moves 6323 and checking for Subs, then bombarding Abilene.

Now 22222 for the TR in the N fleet is open. Take 1 TR full of M in the N fleet and move it 22222. Move a TR in the S fleet 63. All the units from this S fleet TR will be dumped onto Abilene 78, so choose an Inf one. Dump the Inf, chain the M. Now hit Abilene with the M.

Continue in this manner until Abilene is taken by Marines.

If we need to chain any units all the way across (Settlers + MI probably), one of the N fleet Transports will need to disband it's units. I would go with the Inf and T (if we still need M) or M (if we've already taken Abilene). Don't decide this until all the M have gone, and/or Abilene has fallen.

We have to get all 7 Settlers to Abilene IMO. We also need to get at least 1 Explorer there. We have Explorers in the S fleet right? So make sure not to Dump or Disband any Settlers and save an Explorer.

We can only chain up to 8 TR to Abilene. All the other units will need to be dumped on Abilene 78. Once Abilene has fallen, we can start taking out cities with Settler hopping, but won't have many Tanks that can be rolling if Lego has gone doughnut, though if they have 1 Settler and 1 Tank will be worth 1 city. If they've kept units in their other cities, we can chain fewer M and get more Tanks into Abilene. If it takes us 56 M we won't be able to roll at all though.

After Abilene falls, move in all the rest of the "rolling" units. We'll want to hit Tip probably, as it doesn't require a Settler to get to. From there we can hit the next city up the coast (sorry, don't have the name) without a Settler either.

DeepO is offline DeepO

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Jan 2002
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  Old Post 13-11-2004 23:17
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cost of investigating Quanto: 219 gold.


Not shown in the pic is that there is also a cath, uni, factory, hospital, harbor.

Further, I count a defense of:
- 9 T
- 1 reg T
- 10 I
- 10 art
- 1 bomber.

I'll recount to see if I'm correct this time

DeepO

Aeson is offline Aeson
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orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:19
  Old Post 13-11-2004 23:18
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I guess they didn't go doughnut? We should be able to take Quanto right? Capturing those Art will be nice...

DeepO is offline DeepO

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Jan 2002
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  Old Post 13-11-2004 23:19
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20 defenders... that's ugly, I think. Especially with the extra art support. With a bit of luck, we might be able to bombard the city to below Metro, but with 5 DD and 2 F which can reach it, I doubt we're going to bombard 3 pop off.

Vulture, do you still have that stack calculation tool around?
We've got 47 possible M right now, 55 if we're stretching it.

DeepO

DeepO is offline DeepO

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  Old Post 13-11-2004 23:22
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I'm not sure, Aeson. If I remember the simulations of M combat right, it matters a lot on those few last M. I wouldn't want us to come 1 or 2 M short, and having to land our forces in the open anyway. We do have 47 defenders extra right now.

DeepO

Aeson is offline Aeson
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orangesoda
Nov 2001
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  Old Post 13-11-2004 23:23
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We should investigate Abilene too I think.

DeepO is offline DeepO

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  Old Post 13-11-2004 23:25
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why? to see if Lego divided its forces?

Forkmouth: would that be worth it to investigate? I don't see us landing there. We've got 80 units at risk in our S fleet, so I think our options are limited to the Quanto side.

DeepO

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  Old Post 13-11-2004 23:27
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BTW, Quanto has 82 spt. I'm closing the screen, I don't see anything else to do here.

DeepO

Aeson is offline Aeson
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orangesoda
Nov 2001
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  Old Post 13-11-2004 23:27
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We can hit Abilene. Fork is dangerous as we don't have anythign to sweep for Subs. Abilene isn't on a Hill right? Thus we have better odds.

 
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