01-12-2004 02:45									#271
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Oh well, he did pretty good two years ago when he played 5 games. Better than Big Ben.

	01-12-2004 03:46									#272
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski QB rating isn't everything. Brees has a 108 rating. The one thing Manning has on him is TD's. Brees has thrown 4 fewer INT's.

Four fewer INTS. Wohoo. Never mind that he's lost two fumbles this year to Manning's 0.

Now really, are touchdowns the only thing Manning has on him?

QB rating:
Manning 126
Brees 108

Completed Passes:
Manning 237
Brees 206

Percent of Passes completed:
Manning 67.3%
Brees 65.8%

Total Yards Passing:
Manning 3196
Brees 2458

Interceptions thrown:
Manning 7
Brees 3

Fumbles lost:
Manning 0
Brees 2

Touchdown Passes:
Manning 41
Brees 21

Average Points scored by Offense per Game:
Manning 35
Brees 21


I don't mean to insult Brees. In fact, I will start him in Fantasy Football next week. But there's no doubt in my mind who the better player is.

	01-12-2004 04:04									#273
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Peyton has the history that makes you believe this year is just a logical part of his ascension as a quarterback. Brees has the history that makes you think this is a career year for him and that he will revert towards his norm next year.

	01-12-2004 04:35									#274
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Brees went from nearly being traded (no interest) or cut (bad cap move), to now being a hot property with a street value of roughly $9MM next year. It will be interesting to see what San Diego does.

I predict they will let him go.

	01-12-2004 06:07									#275
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quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit Looking at the standings, the NFC is really turning into a joke. There are only 5 teams over .500. That means that one of the teams that's currently 5-6 (or worse!) will make the playoffs. The candidates: NY Giants, St Louis. And since the Giants are tanking with Eli, the Rams will probably get in. Teams that are 4-7 are currently only one game out of the wild card. That group includes some truly poor teams: Dallas, Chicago, Detroit, New Orleans, Tampa Bay, and Arizona. "Parity" = mediocrity. The NFC is just so sad...

The only one the I fear is Carolina. Don't forget about them. They've won 3 straight, and the Rams have to play them in Carolina.

	01-12-2004 06:27									#276
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quote: But this is the first year that he started as the started. The other years he was just a back up.

Frankly that makes little sense . He took over the starting job in 2001 (with 5 games to go) and 2002 (after 1 game).

He's been a starter before, so he gets no leeway.

quote: he did pretty good two years ago when he played 5 games. Better than Big Ben.

Did they go 5-0? Then no, he wasn't better than Big Ben .

	01-12-2004 06:35									#277
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Even 5-0 is not better than 9-0.

	01-12-2004 06:39									#278
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Yeah, I know... but you could have made the argument, if he went 5-0 that he would have gone 9-0 if his coach realized how good he was and put him in!

	01-12-2004 06:56									#279
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Maddox is easily a good enough QB to win a superbowl. Of course I say that because Trent Dilfer has won a superbowl

It takes a good team around you and a solid organization to do that. And the Rams do not have a good team around them anymore. I'd call them halfway decent at best.

	01-12-2004 07:33									#280
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It amazes me just how bad the NFC West is. It's very likely the worst division in the history of the game.

The division as a whole has a 16-28 record, or an 8-20 record against teams outside of itself. It has provided Miami, the absolute worst team in the AFC, with both of its two wins.

Its 8 wins outside of division are distributed like this:
2 against Tampa Bay (4-7)
2 against New Orleans (4-7)
2 against Miami (2-10)
1 against Carolina (4-7)
1 against NY Giants (5-6)

In other words, no team in this division can beat a better-than-average team.

The NFC West has four teams. San Francisco, is, without question, the worst team in the NFL. They got destroyed by Miami. They gave them 17 points off of fumbles alone.

Then we have the Cardinals, who have won only one road game this year, and have dropped two in a row, getting outscored 48-13 in the last two.

Then we have the Rams, who appear to be decent, at 5-6. But where have the wins come from? 4 of them have been against other NFC West teams. Only once have they beat someone outside of the division. And who did they beat? Tampa Bay. The Miami Dolphins proved a little too tough for them. In fact, the Dolphins destroyed them, 31-14.

Lastly, we have the Seahawks, the only team with a barely-winning record at 6-5. Two of those wins are against San Francisco, their worthless division rival. But against out of conference teams, they've picked up 4 wins. Who were the teams they beat? Tampa Bay, New Orleans, Miami and Carolina. Not a single one of these teams is better than 4-7.

Worst. Divison. Ever.

	01-12-2004 07:35									#281
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quote: Maddox is easily a good enough QB to win a superbowl. Of course I say that because Trent Dilfer has won a superbowl

Difference is that Dilfer makes less mistakes.

	01-12-2004 07:37									#282
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Maddox and Neil O'Donnell are roughly equivalent.

	01-12-2004 07:38									#283
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Maddox is easily a good enough QB to win a superbowl. Of course I say that because Trent Dilfer has won a superbowl Difference is that Dilfer makes less mistakes.

And he had Jamal Lewis. Bettis may look good this year, but he's not like the Jamal Lewis who carried a weak Baltimore offense into the Superbowl.

	01-12-2004 07:45									#284
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I wrote Maddox above, I meant to say Bulger. I keep getting these backups confused. well, bulger is no longer a backup. Maddox briefly was a starter, until big ben came into power.

But we were talking about the rams, and I meant to say Bulger could possibly take them to the superbowl and win if he had a better team around him.

the Steelers on the other hand, do have the capability of winning the superbowl. A win over the Patriots has proven this. There is no doubt there. But that is with Ben at the controls, not Maddox.

	01-12-2004 07:54									#285
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quote: And he had Jamal Lewis. Bettis may look good this year, but he's not like the Jamal Lewis who carried a weak Baltimore offense into the Superbowl.

Lewis had 1364 yards in 2000. If you take Bettis' yards per game in the 4 games he's started and extrapolated them out to a 16 game schedule you get 1924 yards rushing.

	01-12-2004 07:55									#286
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Roethlisberger is the new Tom Brady.

Jaguar's Prediction: Steelers will eke out an AFC title game win against the NE Patriots. The score will be something like 24-21. Then they'll move on to beat the Green Bay Packers in the Superbowl, roughly 34-24.

	01-12-2004 08:01									#287
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quote: Originally posted by pchang Peyton has the history that makes you believe this year is just a logical part of his ascension as a quarterback. Brees has the history that makes you think this is a career year for him and that he will revert towards his norm next year.

Peyton also has a history of choking in the big game. Perhaps he'll play long enough to get to two Super Bowls (he'll choke in the first, eke out a win in the second), but he is definitely my #1 pick of Great Player Who Will Never Win A Ring Except As A 40-Year Old Backup.

	01-12-2004 08:03									#288
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quote: Peyton also has a history of choking in the big game.

Like Elway did?

	01-12-2004 08:03									#289
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: And he had Jamal Lewis. Bettis may look good this year, but he's not like the Jamal Lewis who carried a weak Baltimore offense into the Superbowl. Lewis had 1364 yards in 2000. If you take Bettis' yards per game in the 4 games he's started and extrapolated them out to a 16 game schedule you get 1924 yards rushing.

You know that's silly. He hasn't gotten more than 1364 yards since 1997, and his yards percarry is an uninspiring 3.5. He only got high numbers of total yards because the Steelers rush all the time to control the clock. Lewis ran for 4.4 yards per carry in 2000, and this year he's at 4.1. Lewis is by far the better back.

	01-12-2004 08:08									#290
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conversely Bettis' yards per carry is low because the Steelers run all the time and the defense knows this and stacks the box to stop it (and yet, the Steelers are able to get 1st downs and thus control the clock).

	01-12-2004 08:10									#291
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Peyton also has a history of choking in the big game. Like Elway did?

Elway never had a history of choking. Elway had a history of carrying an inferior team to Super Bowls.

They always got beat by a better team. They never choked.

ACK!

	01-12-2004 08:11									#292
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the real problem with Bettis is that he gets banged up and falls apart by the end of the season. having Duce Staley was great for Bettis because he is fresh. and now when Duce comes back, he will be fresh too.

	01-12-2004 08:11									#293
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quote: Originally posted by pchang conversely Bettis' yards per carry is low because the Steelers run all the time and the defense knows this and stacks the box to stop it (and yet, the Steelers are able to get 1st downs and thus control the clock).

The 2000 Ravens didn't run the ball all the time? Hell, look at the Ravens last year. They gave Lewis the ball 400 times that season, and he ran for 5.1 yards a carry.

	01-12-2004 08:11									#294
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Peyton also has a history of choking in the big game. Like Elway did?

Yup. At least Elway could win when he had a world-class running back.

Also: What Tuberski said.

	01-12-2004 08:11									#295
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Can you say that Peyton choked when his teams had inferior defenses.

	01-12-2004 08:14									#296
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I can say that he chokes because he implodes when the pressure is on. TN-NE 1997 national championship game, anyone? IN-NE, last year?

	01-12-2004 08:14									#297
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quote: Elway never had a history of choking. Elway had a history of carrying an inferior team to Super Bowls. They always got beat by a better team. They never choked.

Whatever you want to spin it is fine . Elways always had better defenses than Peyton did. And I think getting intercepted how many ever times by the Patriots isn't something utterly horrible. After all, they basically raped the Indy recievers.

	01-12-2004 08:15									#298
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what exactly do you mean by TN-NE?

	01-12-2004 08:16									#299
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Tennessee vs. Nebraska, national championship game... 1997 season.

	01-12-2004 08:16									#300
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Ah, I see.