10-12-2004 01:59									#451
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I missed something with the empties. I can't put them out of range of the 4 ships, if they still have 6 movements remaining. I can however put them where they are safe if those ships only have 5 mp. Let's do that instead, moving the ships 47777. That should give them 2 shots if Hub 2 survives (and hub 3 is destroyed). And, with a lot of chaining and planning, it should also cover for hub 2 in case that was destroyed and hub 3 survives.

Now let's only hope those ships don't encounter a sub when moving up there. Moving 88444 should minimize the risk.

DeepO

	10-12-2004 01:59									#452
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We wouldn't be sure to be able to keep the captured Workers anyways. So I agree. Capture the cities, sell off everything.

	10-12-2004 02:00									#453
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quote: I've tried to repeat things, but I've ended up with a 1/5 Battleship left in front of Quanto with no Transports left...

Says it all I guess, on how close this can be.

	10-12-2004 02:01									#454
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson Just for peace of mind, make sure to move the Tanks and Settlers to Q6 before abandoning Quanto. Tip may have had a road built on the tile, or abandoning your own cities could possibly be different than enemy cities, or it might have something to do with if Coal and Iron are hooked up to the tile... no need for chances right?

Agree.... no need for anything strangely.

DeepO

	10-12-2004 02:03									#455
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Man I can't keep up. Before I can ead a post and put up an answer it has been anwered and 5 more post are up.

	10-12-2004 02:06									#456
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quote: Originally posted by Trip A question: Can you post a list of every action you've taken so far this turn?

Uhm... Trip, everything is here, and normally clearly marked too. If you really want to, I can go back and sort everything out, but I'm kind of in the middle of something. As said, the only thing I did not note, is which units went on which transports, and which transports moved first (normally, I just pick the top one, or right-clicking the stack and finding the first one suitable. But especially with the chaining this can differ quite a bit. If that plays any role, there is no way to repeat this, as there are simply too many combinations. But it shouldn't, right?)

quote: I've tried to repeat things, but I've ended up with a 1/5 Battleship left in front of Quanto with no Transports left...

??? Did the bombardment work out the same way? This is worrying!

I'm definately not going to close this save now, that's for sure!

DeepO

	10-12-2004 02:08									#457
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Nothing turned out the same way, from the first.

When the Destroyer ran into the invisible sub it killed it but was 3/4, not promoted to 3/5 as you noted. From then on things remained different (though there were some similar occurances, like one of the Transports taking out a 2/5 BB).

If I were you, I'd finish the turn before it crashes, or you may be SOL.

	10-12-2004 02:10									#458
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Oh, and saying things are plain to see in a thread that's 19 pages long is stretching it... there's a reason why I asked for a complete list, and it's not because I'm lazy.

	10-12-2004 02:14									#459
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Okay, trying to replay again... investigating Abilene, investigating Stanwix...

	10-12-2004 02:15									#460
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The build queue changes might have affected the RNG. Did you change the builds too Trip?

The Diplomacy screen is also notorious for using RNG rolls. Maybe checking costs for spy actions affected things. Maybe checking other nations for updates could affected things.

I know there are RNG rolls that I don't know when/where they occur. Run into them when trying to reproduce timelines every once in a while. Some of those can be attributed to incorrect timelines, but some of them are just mysteries.

	10-12-2004 02:16									#461
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movement continued
- transport from our stack off Abilene with 8 tanks moved to NI8
- reloaded tanks onto 3/5 transport.
- 3/5 transport moved to Quanto, and awakened

- transport at NI 4 moved into NI.
- loaded with 7 tanks, 1 MI
- moved to Quanto, unloaded
- moved to Quanto 4.

- transport at NI 4 moved into NI.
- loaded with 8 tanks
- moved to Quanto, unloaded
- moved to Quanto 4.

- all units in Quanto moved to Quanto 6.

- all units present in NI forted
- all transports from stack near Abilene moved into NI, and unloaded.
- all units in NI forted again.

DeepO

	10-12-2004 02:22									#462
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Build queues... now that could be it. I don't know exactly, but I changed some builds after going through the build phase. I think I changed the MI in Tornado only after doing all the rest. Also, I cycled a couple of time through the cities to see if we had enough airports (IIRC, Bolderberg was changed once I saw we might need another one, as it otherwise is a good MI city).

If that affects the RNG, there is no way this game can be reproduced. But I reloaded after the first day, I thought, and did the build phase again as it supposed to be? And diplo... well, didn't that happen twice after going to bed as well?

DeepO

	10-12-2004 02:24									#463
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You're not forgetting to move the marine to investigate Quanto before the chaining, right?

DeepO

	10-12-2004 02:27									#464
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I'm going to see if I can duplicate it completely later, but I have to do the C3C ISDG turn now.

	10-12-2004 02:28									#465
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Something else: We don't have 2 empties in that stack, we had 1, and 2 2/4 DDs. Now we've got a choice: we can put all of those ships on Hub 3, which already has a transport and a..........

****. What's this? That DD promoted to 3/5, right? Now then, why is it 1/4 in my game? This is not something I could have missed this easily.

Trip, do you know when I reloaded? I mean, was it before or after running into the sub? I can't remember. In case it was before, we got a different outcome, and I didn't notice it. In case it was after, something is very much amiss in this game. I can understand the transport losing movement, after all, it's only a push on the space bar when you're not paying attention. But a DD losing hp???

DeepO

	10-12-2004 02:36									#466
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Back to my idea... we've got 2 2/4 DDs and a TR, which could be put on top of Hub 3 (currently 1 TR and 1/4 DD). That should mean we can count on one TR surviving, as only 3 ships plus a transport can reach it, in case Jackson is taken. I prefer that from putting the transports one tile to West of that position, leaving the other transport open for attack. Those ships are not terribly good either (2/4 BB, 1/4 BB, 1/4 DD), and will suffer from 3 defensive bombardments... we might be able to keep both transports, and keeping the 1/4 DD to scout for movements.

If that DD was 3/5 like I remembered it, there wouldn't have been a problem at all, as then we'd had 3 defenders before getting to the transports.

DeepO

	10-12-2004 02:51									#467
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Here's the list up till the time of the battle:

- GoW sends WM. accept.
- Sending WM in return.
- RP sends WM + 100g. Sending WM in return.
- EotS builds T. (couldn't prevent this).
- Enter city view.
- Hurricane has to finish its TR.
- Bolderberg changed to airport. (might be needed to change it back to MI)
- D-ville changed to airport
- Elipolis changed to airport
- Tempest changed to airport
- Tornado changed to settler (!) (only 1 worker needed to get back to normal, even without worker possible as the extra worker would only create extra commerce.)
- Typhoon stays on settler
- Arashi stays on MI
- Monsoon changed to airport
- Blizzard changed to DD
- WoC stays on sub (airport next?)
- the rest stays on MIs.
- Hurricane builds TR. starts airport (DD not ideal, is better from Blizzard)
- Cyclone builds worker, starts worker.
- Tornado builds settler, starts rifle. needs worker action to work around demob bug
- Typhoon builds settler, starts rifle also needs worker action
- Blizzard builds DD, starts DD (no airport, but can be changed)
- WoC builds sub, starts sub (can be changed to airport, but I'd prefer one more sub first)
- SA builds MI, starts airport. (can be changed to MI in case we don't need >8 airports)

(We still have 2 others on Stormia, so will get to 3, but the question is whether we want a 4th or not. I'm inclined to do this, we can always build more workers, but this might be the last turn for settlers.

Nobody comments on the settler? Ok. An extra settler it is...)

- Cost of investigating Abilene: 209 gold.
- okay, investigation of Fort Stanwix on its way...
- Move N Marine next to Quanto
- loaded 8 arts into Transport.
- hub 2: arts reloaded
- hub 2: arts reloaded.
- now we can scout. Moving one DD to hub 3.
- we encounter a sub! sub sunk. DD promoted, now 3/5. it happened before here
- didn't establish our city yet, so I'm doing it now. Named New Inchon. Set to barracks. founding cities definitely changes the RNG... maybe this was swapped?
- reload arts, and move them into New Inchon. unload.
- art bombs 5/5 BB Tipperary (or Karina? only looked after bombing). failed.
- art bombs 5/5 BB Tipperary (or Karina). Tipperary 4/5
- fighter bombs BB Jackson. Fighter fails.
- 2/4 DD attacks BB Jackson. 2/4 DD destroyed. Jackson promoted to 2/5.
- art bombs 4/5 BB Karina. Karina 2/5.
- art bombs 4/5 Tipperary. fails
- art bombs 4/5 Tiperrary. fails
- art bombs 4/5 Tipperary. Tipperary 3/5
- art bombs 3/5 Tipperary. Tipperary 2/5
- art bombs 2/5 Karina. Karina 1/5.

- transport attacks 2/5 Jackson. counter bombardment failed. Transport destroyed, Jackson 1/5
- transport attacks 2/5 Tipperary. counter bombardment hits. Transport destroyed.
- 3 transports attack 2/5 Tipperary. All destroyed, Tiperary 2/5.
- transport attacks 2/5 Tipperary. Transport promotes to 3/5
- transport attacks 1/5 Karina. destroyed.
- transport attacks 1/5 Karina. Transport 1/4.
- transport attacks 1/5 Jackson. Transport 1/4.

	10-12-2004 02:52									#468
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movement continued
- Quanto abandoned. We lost 2 transports. We get a note saying that the resistance has ended Marine is still there, as are the RRs (so this is proof, we know Quanto was there before Lego had RRs.)
- settler creates new city, "Quanto 6" for lack of a better name.

- tank captures Nou Camp.
- we take 22 gold. 4 resisters.
- barracks sold for 5 gold.

- tank captures Sando (which is in WLTKD, btw)
- we take 33 gold. 6 resisters.
- barracks sold for 5g
- market sold for 12g
- harbor sold for 10g

- tank captures Karina.
- we take 46 g. 10 resisters.
- barracks sold for 5g
- CH sold for 10g
- bank sold for 20g
- factory sold for 30g
- hydro plant sold for 30g
- stock exchange sold for 25g

- tank captures Oasis.
- 46g taken. 14 resisters.
- market sold for 12g
- factory sold for 30g
- hydro plant sold for 30g.

treasury up to 567 gold.

DeepO

	10-12-2004 03:00									#469
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That settler business in Tornado was definately when I cycled back into the queue to set it right. I think I did the same with Bolderberg, but I'm not sure.

Further, the DD build in Blizzard was something I also decided later... I was going to do it in Hurricane, but noticed when cycling it wouldn't be ideal.

This all happened at the first pass, though, I'm sure of that. And I think that when I replayed, I did it in the order as it is represented that.

But if those things affect it, there is more. e.g. I can't remember if I set EotS to airport from outside, or from inside the city view.

Is there any indication on when I reloaded? Not the first time after my crash when checking GoW's deals, as this happens before build stuff, but the second one. when going to bed (I think).

I better go through the thread again myself. Maybe I remember something.

DeepO

	10-12-2004 03:06									#470
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It seems to me, that I reloaded the game after the two investigations and moving the marine, and before the chaining.

This is very strange. Once this game is over, saved, and put away into a folder somewhere I want to repeat it myself to see where I get.

DeepO

	10-12-2004 03:09									#471
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erh, there is an inconsistency in the movement report with the chaining. I reloaded the arts twice at hub 2, it seems, once before, and once after the sub attack.

quote: - we can't scout for subs to Hub 1, the DD we just build can't reach it (maybe next turn). So I had to risk it... - arts reloaded - from hub 1 to hub 2, we've got the same problem. We can't leave hub 1 undefended. So again risking it. - hub 2: arts reloaded. - now we can scout. Moving one DD to hub 3. - we encounter a sub! sub sunk. DD promoted, now 3/5. - Lego has a way of putting its subs right in the way of where the ships automove, maybe I should change my behaviour. This is not the first time that when there are multiple paths possible, and I just let the game decide (by moving the mouse to the destination tile), we encounter a sub. Would they plan this? - anyway, transport reloaded, and follows the trail of the DD, gets to Hub3.

I've got no clue when it happened, before moving the DD or afterwards.

DeepO

	10-12-2004 03:10									#472
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And while this is all very worrying, I really should get some food now. See you in half an hour.

DeepO

	10-12-2004 03:18									#473
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Any chance we can get a current screenie? I just love to see the progress.

	10-12-2004 03:52									#474
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here you go, vmxa:



DeepO

	10-12-2004 03:53									#475
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You don't know how beautiful that is...

	10-12-2004 03:59									#476
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quote: Originally posted by Krill You don't know how beautiful that is...

Oh yes I do, Krill

I'm continuing with Oasis 8. I'll post another screenie after those bunch of cities have fallen, and before using another settler.


DeepO

	10-12-2004 04:13									#477
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movement continued
- all units from Quanto moved to Oasis 8.
- abandoned Oasis (resitance ends too )
- settler builds new city, called "Oasis 8".

- tank captures farmerville.
- 34 gold liberated, 7 resisters
- market sold for 12g
- CH sold for 10g
- bank sold for 20g

- tank captures Forkmouth
- 35 g liberated. 10 resisters
- barracks sold for 5g
- market sold for 12g
- hydro plant sold for 30 g
- harbor sold for 10 g
- police station sold for 20 g

- Lego CV spotted at Forkmouth 11
- another worker spotted at Forkmouth 47

DeepO

	10-12-2004 04:13									#478
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I've been lurking (too much work!)

I just have to applaud all the work you (pllural) have put into this amazing push.

absolutely gorgeous.

	10-12-2004 04:15									#479
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DeepO

	10-12-2004 04:26									#480
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Movement continued
- everything moved from Oasis 8 to Farmer 8.
- Farmerville abandoned, resistance ends.
- settler builds new city, "Farmer 8".

- tank captures Red Bricks
- we liberate 47 gold, capture the Sistine chapel (sadly, it won't do us a lot of good). 16 resisters.
- market sold for 12g
- bank sold for 20 g
- hydro plant sold for 30 g
- stock exchange sold for 25 g

- we spot the Lego settler at red bricks 89 (mountain)

- tank captures Tarzania
- 47 g liberated. 13 resisters.
- barracks sold for 5 g
- CH sold for 10 g
- walls sold for 2 g
- bank sold for 20 g
- factory sold for 30 g
- police station sold for 20 g
- stock exchange sold for 25 g

current treasury: 1048 g

DeepO