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Guynemer
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For the record, I am absolutely convinced that Utah could and would beat Miami.
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Lawrence of Arabia
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of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:17
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Um.. no they don't. The computers have nothing to do with the preseason. They don't take into account early rankings at all.
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um yes htey do. the computers have everything to do with the preseason, they take into account early rannkings.
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No you don't take into account at the time of play. Like I said, did Virginia Tech beat two Top 10 teams because West Virginia was 10th when they beat them?
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yes, which is why they are ranked at the end of the year.
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You have no clue. A team that is 20th is not a weak team. That idiocy speaking. If A&M is weak than Florida must be pathetic seeing how they are ranked behind A&M.
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thats right.
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Um.. no. That's ESPN's schedule. That isn't how they rank teams just what happened during the season. It's meant to be a timeline of the season, not a ranking |
if you like at an NCAA schedual, they will do it the same way.
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Auburn deserves #3. Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if VTech knocks them off |
auburn would blow them out, no questionsn asked. just like auburn would blow usc and ou outta the water, because they they had the toughest schedual, and completely wupped top 10 teams, while USC could barely beat Oregon St, UCLA, and Cal. THats not how a #1 team plays.
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Imran Siddiqui
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The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:17
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um yes htey do. the computers have everything to do with the preseason, they take into account early rannkings. |
NO they don't! They can't account early rankings because computer polls don't come out until the season starts!
Perhaps you are getting the computer polls confused with the BCS poll?
How much longer are you going to continue making a fool of yourself?
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yes, which is why they are ranked at the end of the year. |
You are delusion. Maybe Virginia Tech is ranked at the end of the year because they won the ACC with only 2 losses, one being to the #1 team in the country. Not because people consider West Virginia to actually be #10 at the time of the win!
D-E-L-U-S-I-O-N-A-L!
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if you like at an NCAA schedual, they will do it the same way. |
Yeah, a timeline of the season, not as a ranking. The computer polls and a lot of the human poll voters look at how good a team actually is later on the season. Initial rankings mean jack, what the ranking is at the end of the year is the important part.
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auburn would blow them out, no questionsn asked. just like auburn would blow usc and ou outta the water, because they they had the toughest schedual, and completely wupped top 10 teams, while USC could barely beat Oregon St, UCLA, and Cal. THats not how a #1 team plays. |
Not a chance. OU would kick the crap out of Auburn and so would USC. Instead of playing overrated SEC schedule (the most overrated conference in the country), they beat TRUE top teams. Cal and Texas are leagues better than Georgia, LSU, and Tennessee combined.
That's why they are #3 and deserve to be there. Maybe if they played some decent out of conference teams they could make up for their weak conference (ranked 4th, at best, in the computer polls that rank schedules).
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Lawrence of Arabia
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of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:17
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That's why they are #3 and deserve to be there. Maybe if they played some decent out of conference teams they could make up for their weak conference (ranked 4th, at best, in the computer polls that rank schedules). |
did USC play any decent out of conference teams? nope. What about OU? nope. so I dont see how they get to go, while Auburn doesn.
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Not a chance. OU would kick the crap out of Auburn and so would USC. Instead of playing overrated SEC schedule (the most overrated conference in the country), they beat TRUE top teams. Cal and Texas are leagues better than Georgia, LSU, and Tennessee combined.
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the same OU who ended last year by choking twice in a row? they beat true top teams? have you looked at their scheduals? they ididnt play anyone challenging, especially USC. And I already told you, both teams almost lost to Cal and Texas, while Auburn blew out Georgia, LSU, and Tennessee all top 10 teams
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NO they don't! They can't account early rankings because computer polls don't come out until the season starts!
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so? its part of the algorithm. you just plug in their rank from preaseason polls.
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You are delusion. Maybe Virginia Tech is ranked at the end of the year because they won the ACC with only 2 losses, one being to the #1 team in the country. Not because people consider West Virginia to actually be #10 at the time of the win!
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of course they do. the computer doesnt reevaluate each team every week and change the numbers. it simply evaluates from that week on. if a team is ranked preseason #1, then loses all its games, the computer doesnt go back and change the fact that on week 1 they were #1. since it goes week by week, you included their rank at the time of play, not at the end of the year.
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Imran Siddiqui
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The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:17
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did USC play any decent out of conference teams? nope. What about OU? nope. so I dont see how they get to go, while Auburn doesn. |
Virginia Tech? Notre Dame? Both bowl teams. Bowling Green? Another bowl team. And even though Oregon finished 5-6, they are ten times better than LA-Monroe, LA Tech, and The Citidel.
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the same OU who ended last year by choking twice in a row? |
Because this is the same team 
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have you looked at their scheduals? they ididnt play anyone challenging, especially USC. |
Um... Texas and Cal were 4 and 5, much better than the overrated SEC teams. And OU almost lost to Texas? You SOOOOO lied about watching that game.
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its part of the algorithm. you just plug in their rank from preaseason polls. |
No you don't. They don't take into account rankings. Once again, are you confusing the BCS rankings with the computer polls?
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the computer doesnt reevaluate each team every week and change the numbers. it simply evaluates from that week on. if a team is ranked preseason #1, then loses all its games, the computer doesnt go back and change the fact that on week 1 they were #1. since it goes week by week, you included their rank at the time of play, not at the end of the year. |
Um... they don't count the rankings. The rankings are not considered. And yes, every week each team is re-evaluated. That is why when a good team loses later in the year, it affects a number of teams, especially every team that team has played and teams those teams have played. It's always a reevaluative process. The computer DOES go back and say you weren't worthy of your high 'rank' if you lose 4 in a row at the end of the year, devaluing any early wins against them.
So they always use the last ranking of the team. And every single computer poll (all 6 of them) ranked Auburn 3rd.
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DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:17
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did USC play any decent out of conference teams? nope. |
Again, the difference is that USC's opponents were good enough to beat them on any given weekend. ND beat Michigan and TN on TN's home turf, after all. But USC abused ND.
Last edited by DanS on 07-12-2004 at 00:31
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Lawrence of Arabia
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of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:17
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quote:
Virginia Tech? Notre Dame? Both bowl teams. Bowling Green? Another bowl team. And even though Oregon finished 5-6, they are ten times better than LA-Monroe, LA Tech, and The Citidel.
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who cares if they are bowl teams. Other than VT, they are all UNRANKED. you are grasping at straws here. ND sucks, bowling green sucks, do you have any more crappy teams that you can put up here? the point is not which crappy teams you beat, its which good teams you beat. Auburn beat more good teams than USC and OU. thats it. they are the best team in the land.
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Because this is the same team
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actually, it is, jason white is still at the helm.
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Um... Texas and Cal were 4 and 5, much better than the overrated SEC teams. And OU almost lost to Texas? You SOOOOO lied about watching that game.
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uh huh, now they are overrated cuz you realized that auburn had a tougher schedual? well ill tell yyou who is overrated. USC. and yeah, i watched the game, all i can say is 12 - 0. no beat down, one lucky play and texas woulda been right back in it.
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And every single computer poll (all 6 of them) ranked Auburn 3rd.
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and every single computer poll (all 6 of them) ranked Auburn wrong.
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Lawrence of Arabia
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of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:17
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The system sucks, and I hope USC losses, and Auburn wins big. |
me too, and i hope michigan blows out texas
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Look at Dan's post. They were all good teams. That's why they are going to bowls. Auburn played the dredges of 1-A and then picked a dredge of 1-AA.
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LSU, Tennessee, and Georgia are the dredges? you cant win this argument.
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Because Adrian Peterson played before he was a freshman for OU? |
defense defense defense
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Um no. They are overrated because the SEC was horrid out of conference. There is a reason the computers ranked the SEC as 4th, at best, conference in the country. They aren't that good.
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do you realize that Auburn had the tougher schedual, which included 3 games against top 10 teams? tell me, did USC or OU have this?
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Man, you are delusional. Everyone else who saw it realized what a beat down it was. Except you... the person with no clue.
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sez the guy who thinks Auburn had an easy schedual. tell me how blowing out 3 top 10 teams is easy? oh wait, youve constantly ignored that fact.
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When every computer and every human poll has Auburn at 3, I'll trust them over trusting you. They got it right and you can't handle the fact that the SEC is the cream of the overrated conferences.
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they obviously got it wrong, since the team wth the toughest schedual and who went 12 - 0 didnt make it to the national championship, while the team who barely beat oregon st, Cal, and UCLA does go.
Meanwhile, somehow texas passes cal even though ccal beat their opponents by an average of 24 points, lost by 3 feet to USC, and texas lost to the number 2 team, and didnt blow out anyone else, including A&M.
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Lawrence of Arabia
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of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:17
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BERKELEY, Calif. -- California refused to run up the score or beg for poll votes.
Maybe the Bears should have
Cal (10-1) was left out of the Bowl Championship Series, denied one of the eight spots in college football's big-money games despite a season of statistical superlatives and dominating victories.
The fourth-ranked Golden Bears will be stuck at the Holiday Bowl while Texas plays in the Rose Bowl.
Cal's Rose Bowl drought reached 46 years despite one of the best regular seasons in school history.
The Bears felt beaten as they left their team meeting. Quarterback Aaron Rodgers saw confusion and disappointment in his teammates when they found out their Rose Bowl dreams were replaced with a trip to San Diego to face Texas Tech.
"It just shows it's a faulty system, and we've got to do something to change it up," Rodgers said. "I bet Auburn is pretty ticked, too. ... Nobody cares about West Coast football, I don't think. I just hope Southern Cal represents us well."
Texas (10-1) surged past the Bears in the final BCS standings despite Cal's 26-16 road victory over Southern Mississippi on Saturday night. The Longhorns gained points in both polls, and the computer rankings kept Texas well in front of Cal. The Longhorns will face Michigan (9-2) on Jan. 1.
There were dozens of factors in the decision, but the Bears felt they were superior in almost every venue -- except the political arena. Rodgers figured Texas coach Mack Brown's pleading for poll support made a difference, and he was glad Cal coach Jeff Tedford never did likewise.
"I thought it was a little classless how Coach Brown was begging for votes after the [Texas A&M] game," Rodgers said. "I think a team's record and the way you play should speak for itself, and you shouldn't have to complain about the BCS system. Coach Tedford isn't going to, although he's frustrated just like we are. I think we're a bigger team, classier than that."
Tedford was less emotional than Rodgers, but no less disappointed as he evaluated the Bears' long list of accomplishments.
The only blemish on their record was a six-point loss at top-ranked USC. They beat 10 teams by an average of 23.9 points per game. They were the only school in the nation's top six both in scoring offense and scoring defense.
The Rose Bowl has matched a Big 10 team against a Pac-10 school for decades, and with the Pac-10 champion Trojans headed to the Orange Bowl, Cal hoped to end the conference's longest Rose Bowl drought. Instead, there will be burnt orange in the Pasadena stands.
"I just feel terrible for the alumni and the fans who have waited so long for this," Tedford said. "As a program, we were set on the Rose Bowl. I felt like we did enough to earn that."
Most of the Bears still were jet-lagged and exhausted after grinding out a victory in Hattiesburg just 18 hours earlier in a game postponed from Sept. 16 by Hurricane Ivan. The late-season road trip provided a national television audience -- but when the Golden Eagles were difficult to put away, it might have swayed some voters away.
And that was baffling to Tedford, who refused to try to score one last touchdown in the waning seconds to pad the score. The Bears also were hurt by a questionable clipping call in the closing minutes, which negated a touchdown run by J.J. Arrington.
Normally, Tedford wouldn't spare a second's thought on such issues -- but in the BCS world, it might have made a difference.
"If yesterday's game was the game that turned anybody's head, then that's sad, because it's about a season," Tedford said. "We're going to keep our same philosophy. It's hard enough just to win games. |
-------
www.espn.com
this says it all.
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Imran Siddiqui
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The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:17
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LSU, Tennessee, and Georgia are the dredges? you cant win this argument. |
I was speaking of out of conference games. LA-Monroe, LA Tech, and Citidel are the dredges.
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do you realize that Auburn had the tougher schedual, which included 3 games against top 10 teams? tell me, did USC or OU have this? |
Auburn didn't have it either. I'm looking at the Top 10, and Georgia is the only other SEC team. I don't use bullshit measures like what ranking they were at the time. USC and OU also played a game against a Top 10 team, USC played 2, in fact.
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since the team wth the toughest schedual and who went 12 - 0 didnt make it to the national championship, while the team who barely beat oregon st, Cal, and UCLA does go. |
What toughest schedule?
http://www.collegefootballpoll.com/...e_rankings.html
Oklahoma 14
USC 45
Auburn 51
That's just one SOS poll. Other computer polls also have a SOS component and Auburn ain't the top one.
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DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:17
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More on ND's coaching situation. Here's a fuller description of Meyer's reasons for choosing Florida over ND. From the NYT. Makes sense to me...
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Lack of patience is why a coach like Meyer is in such demand. Meyer went 21-2 in two seasons at Utah and 17-6 in two seasons at Bowling Green, turning around both programs with strict discipline and a wide-open offense.
And although Notre Dame matched Florida's contract offer, Meyer stressed in a telephone interview yesterday that the two universities did not have a bidding war and that his decision wasn't about money.
He said that by the time Notre Dame officials arrived on Thursday night, he had already been deep into discussions with Florida; Foley had first met with Meyer on Nov. 26.
Meyer said the decision for him and his wife, Shelley, came down to where they wanted to raise their three children. Shelley Meyer had even talked with Christine Donovan, the wife of Florida men's basketball coach, Billy Donovan, about raising a family in Gainesville.
Meyer had also sought advice from Oklahoma Coach Bob Stoops and the former Notre Dame Coach Lou Holtz, whom Meyer worked with for one season.
Holtz warned Meyer about the national scope of the Notre Dame job; Holtz said that he would always be getting on a flight trying to recruit someone or to speak somewhere.
"Becoming a national icon was not high on my list of things to do," Meyer said. "At Florida, you either hop on a private plane or drive two hours to recruit. That's what's best for me and my family at this stage. If I was 50 and my kids were out of the house, my decision might have been different. It was timing.
"Is it a dream job? Yes. Is it the best job in college sports? Yes. Do I have great love for Notre Dame? Yes. Was the timing wrong? Yes." |
There doesn't seem to be much out there in the current college ranks. They might pick somebody from the NFL.
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Guynemer
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Two dandy games so far in the 3rd Annual GGNCAACFT.
In the defacto Big Ten Championship, Michigan's WR #1 caught the winning TD pass in the first OT, and Michigan's defense held, as the Wolverines defeated the Hawkeyes, 20-13.
In the defacto Rose Bowl, Michigan's WR #1 caught the winning TD pass in the first OT, and Michigan's defense held, as the Wolverines defeated the Trojans, 24-17.
Seriously.
Utah-VaTech has just kicked off...
EDIT: I will also run a Drake Invitational, with just the five undefeated teams.
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Lawrence of Arabia
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of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:17
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I was speaking of out of conference games. LA-Monroe, LA Tech, and Citidel are the dredges.
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who cares if it out of conference? take the total of all teams played, and you will see that Auburn had the tougher schedual
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Auburn didn't have it either. I'm looking at the Top 10, and Georgia is the only other SEC team. I don't use bullshit measures like what ranking they were at the time. USC and OU also played a game against a Top 10 team, USC played 2, in fact.
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its not 'bs' measure when you rank them at the time of play. thats just how its done. do you watch ESPN? do you get the magazine? did you watch PTI today where Trev Alberts essentially repeated everything ive been saying? and im the one with no clue? please. Trev alberts said it was preseason polls which screwed Auburn, 3 newspapers in texas mysteriously changed their votes from cal to texas after texas coach whine's, and he said that Auburn is the number 1 team in the land, with a tougher schedual, and who blew out 3 top ten teams.
sorry imran, im right.
hey imran, look how great your computers are. we get Texas -Michigan in the Rose Bowl, instead of traditional Pac10 - Big 10. Look at Utah, they get to play a weak three loss team from the Big East, Pitt. I want to see Utah play a real team to determine if they are as good as their record. No one wants to see these games, and the system failed yet again, those infallible computers, who include preseason ranks.
then you give me a link to some obscure site that no one knows about, which uses yet another computer to determine who is better, when those teams dont even play each other. hey, since computers work so well, i dont think there should be a playoff in the NFL. just have the two top teams ranked by the computer to play in the national title game, and declare the winner national champs. why dont we do that?
who would you have? Pittsburgh? NE? Indianopolis? Philly? remember only two go. make your pick, plug in those numbers in your computer, and tell me its fair, and theres no way that the two teams left out are better than the two chose.
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Imran Siddiqui
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The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:17
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who cares if it out of conference? take the total of all teams played, and you will see that Auburn had the tougher schedual |
Nope, sorry that ain't the case.
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its not 'bs' measure when you rank them at the time of play |
Of course it is. West Virgina was ranked 10th in the beginning of year. So did Virginia Tech beat the 10th ranked team when they beat West Virginia? Even though WVa isn't even ranked anymore? Don't be ridiculous!
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did you watch PTI today where Trev Alberts essentially repeated everything ive been saying |
Trev Alberts! Could you have picked a bigger idiot?
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those infallible computers, who include preseason ranks. |
For the last time, THEY DON'T IN ANY WAY! Do you have to continue to lie in order to try have any point at all? How can computers include preseason ranks when the rankings have absolute no effect on computer polls (hint, hint, that's why the computer rankings are there)
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since computers work so well, i dont think there should be a playoff in the NFL. just have the two top teams ranked by the computer to play in the national title game, and declare the winner national champs. why dont we do that? |
You keep on saying it is because of bias. Computers have no bias. And in the NFL, there are 30 teams, so you play a good percentage of the teams in the league during the season. And I'm not against a playoff. Have a playoff with every conference champ, and you'll see either USC or OU win it. That's the way I'd settle it.
You complain about the human polls. You complain about the computer polls. They all agree. This isn't the LoA Championship Series, boyo, and everyone that has a voice says Auburn is 3. Suck it up.
Sorry, LoA, I'm right and you know it.
Last edited by Imran Siddiqui on 07-12-2004 at 04:10
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Lawrence of Arabia
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of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:17
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Nope, sorry that ain't the case.
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thats all you got?
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Of course it is. West Virgina was ranked 10th in the beginning of year. So did Virginia Tech beat the 10th ranked team when they beat West Virginia? Even though WVa isn't even ranked anymore? Don't be ridiculous!
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FOR THE SECOND TIME!!!!! YES !!!!!!!!! THEY DID.
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Trev Alberts! Could you have picked a bigger idiot?
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did ESPN hire you to talk college football?
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For the last time, THEY DON'T IN ANY WAY! Do you have to continue to lie in order to try have any point at all?
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for another time, YES THEY INCLUDE THEM IN EVERYWAY.
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You keep on saying it is because of bias. Computers have no bias. |
comptuers dont have bias? are you joking? computers have bias put into them by the humans who program them. in fact they prolly have even more bias than a human because they cant change their ways; the way the whole system is made, and the way its calculated, it biases it towards certain teams, and thats how the computer ranked texas ahead of cal, even tho texas looked aweful against kansas. the computer doesnt watch the game, it takes statistics and tries to weigh them and thats where all the BIAS comes into play
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And in the NFL, there are 30 teams, so you play a good percentage of the teams in the league during the season. |
well why not use your computers? have no AFC v. NFC games, then tell me, CAN YOUR COMPUTERS DETERMINE THE BETTER TEAM CORRECTLY EVERYTIME?
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And I'm not against a playoff. Have a playoff with every conference champ, and you'll see either USC or OU win it. That's the way I'd settle it.
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which shows how little you know. Then you'd have no Cal in the playoffs, but you'd have COLORADO, who is 7- 5. YOU CALL THIS FAIR? apparently you need to learn what fair is. your proposal stinks, prolly even worse then the system we have now.
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You complain about the human polls. You complain about the computer polls. They all agree. This isn't the LoA Championship Series, boyo, and everyone that has a voice says Auburn is 3. Suck it up.
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it would be MOOT point if you took the top 8 teams as ranked and HAD A PLAYOFF, as ive been saying all along.
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Imran Siddiqui
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The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:17
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I consider the truth to be pretty powerful.
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FOR THE SECOND TIME!!!!! YES !!!!!!!!! THEY DID. |
For the umpteenth time, NO!!!!! THEY DIDN'T! West Virginia is a non-Top 25 ranked team. How they were ranked in the beginning of the year is irrelevent because it is based on nothing but expectations. The final rankings are based on what teams have done in the year.
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for another time, YES THEY INCLUDE THEM IN EVERYWAY. |
Um.. NO, THEY DON'T INCLUDE THEM AT ALL! Why do you think computer polls exist? Because they don't factor in rankings. They only factor in statistics.
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comptuers dont have bias? are you joking? computers have bias put into them by the humans who program them. in fact they prolly have even more bias than a human because they cant change their ways |
And what bias is put into play by putting the statistics into a formula and calculating the results? That's right, there is none! It's made up by you and other Auburn-fanboys conspiracy theorists. Unlike the human polls, where you have your biases, the computers just plugs in numbers. That's why BOTH exist.
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well why not use your computers? have no AFC v. NFC games, then tell me, CAN YOUR COMPUTERS DETERMINE THE BETTER TEAM CORRECTLY EVERYTIME? |
Because there is a playoff to determine the champion. In the absense of a playoff a combination of human polls and computers is good.
And you know what in the NFL, I'd trust the computers over human rankings to decide which team had a better season.
Why don't you stop with your strawmen and compare apples to apples? 
Oh sorry, that's because you've lost the argument.
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which shows how little you know. Then you'd have no Cal in the playoffs, but you'd have COLORADO, who is 7- 5. YOU CALL THIS FAIR? apparently you need to learn what fair is. your proposal stinks, prolly even worse then the system we have now. |
You say "shows how little you know" and then say Colorado won a Conference? Which one, kemo sabe? Btw, for your information, Colorado lost the Big XII Championship to Oklahoma.
And yes, if you can't win your own Conference you don't have an argument over a team that has in going to a playoff. Sorry.
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it would be MOOT point if you took the top 8 teams as ranked and HAD A PLAYOFF, as ive been saying all along. |
So you've been saying how biased it is and now you want to take your biased system to decide a playoff?
God, you are clueless. Conference Champions and, if you can put away your "computers are biased" chant, some at large teams based on a combination of human polls and computer polls.
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Lawrence of Arabia
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of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:17
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I consider the truth to be pretty powerful.
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its not
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For the umpteenth time, NO!!!!! THEY DIDN'T! West Virginia is a non-Top 25 ranked team. How they were ranked in the beginning of the year is irrelevent because it is based on nothing but expectations. The final rankings are based on what teams have done in the year.
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for the third time, you take it at the time of the game. show me an official document which shows otherwise
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Um.. NO, THEY DON'T INCLUDE THEM AT ALL! Why do you think computer polls exist? Because they don't factor in rankings. They only factor in statistics.
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YES THEY INCLUDE THEM. the computer exists to weigh different statistics and ranks, and one of those is the preseason.
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And what bias is put into play by putting the statistics into a formula and calculating the results? That's right, there is none! It's made up by you and other Auburn-fanboys conspiracy theorists. Unlike the human polls, where you have your biases, the computers just plugs in numbers. That's why BOTH exist.
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OH WAIT - there is. its how the computer weights each statistic. if thats not bias, then tell me what is.
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Because there is a playoff to determine the champion. In the absense of a playoff a combination of human polls and computers is good.
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YEAH? if its so good, explain to me what happened last year? DID THE SYSTEM WORK? HELL NO. DID IT WORK THIS YEAR? HELL NO.
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And you know what in the NFL, I'd trust the computers over human rankings to decide which team had a better season.
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would you use it over head to head matchups? i didnt think so.
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You say "shows how little you know" and then say Colorado won a Conference? Which one, kemo sabe? Btw, for your information, Colorado lost the Big XII Championship to Oklahoma.
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colorado won the Big 12 N. or take Pittsburgh. YOUR style would have PITT in the playoffs, a team that went 8 -3. AGain, i show how system is worse than what we have now.
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So you've been saying how biased it is and now you want to take your biased system to decide a playoff? |
thats right, its a question of degrees, if you can believe it. The difference between top 3 teams is slim, AS you get to #6, #7, #8, the difference between them GETS LARGER, therefore, the system is more accurate SINCE THE SEPERATIONG BETWEEN TEAMS SKILLS IS LARGE ENOUGH FOR A COMPUTER/ HUMAN POLLS TO BE ACCURATE.
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06-12-2004 23:22
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