18-12-2004 05:40									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Ljube-ljcvetko Last send attack first is a very important rule and is part of every successful strategy. There is no luck in it. Theben took the risk and sent his orders just before my update and he won the prize. You DrSpike could have ordered your fleet to attack whoever they find there and you might have defeated Theben and scored a double point.

I agree, and I agree no GM mistakes were made. However the player that is online just before an update gets an advantage, it is indisputable, and I don't think this should be the case.

	18-12-2004 05:45									#92
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Sparrow only sent half his ships? Then he only deserves half of the bases captured.

	18-12-2004 09:13									#93
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Just so I understand what just happened.....DrSpike sent a spy to Theben?

And somehow Sparrow and he managed to attack as an alliance?

And DrSpike/Sparrow matched my OoB perfectly?

* Theben

	18-12-2004 15:58									#94
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Looks about right.

	18-12-2004 16:52									#95
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I suppose this means someone sold me out, right? 'Cuz there's no way you could've managed this on your own. I guess one of my misspellings did it! Was it you, Thubbins? Or maybe Thizbin!!

	18-12-2004 17:00									#96
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The forum game king is just good at OOBs. Of course I didn't want to counter you perfectly, that would just look suspicious.

	18-12-2004 17:04									#97
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Ah, well, 'twas a grand and glorious game. I thought I was going to be destroyed the turn before, and I got to add another empire to my kill list:

Spaced Cowboy *
Smiley *
Skanky Burns * (1/2 kill)
joncha *
Jamski *

plus I like to add Sparrowhawk the 1st time since he was following my orders when he stayed at home and got clobbered. Pure coincidence, I assure you.

	18-12-2004 17:07									#98
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And had I used the OoB I sent against Sparrow to use in case of allied assault, Mr Spike, both of your fleets would be in ruins. Consider yourself fortunate.

	18-12-2004 17:26									#99
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Fortune favours the skilled.

	18-12-2004 17:47									#100
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DrSpike definition of skill= he wins.

DrSpike definition of luck= he loses.

	18-12-2004 18:05									#101
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and btw although you outgun Sparrow by over 100 BPs a good OoB will still defeat you so don't count your chickens yet.

	18-12-2004 23:09									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Theben DrSpike definition of skill= he wins. DrSpike definition of luck= he loses.

	19-12-2004 05:14									#103
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24 more hours for the orders please.

I expect a Grand Battle next turn.

	19-12-2004 05:16									#104
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If Sparrow's got any shields left he's better off using them up so he can even the tonnage ratios out a little more.

	19-12-2004 05:16									#105
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Sent.

	19-12-2004 07:28									#106
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Not ready to send orders just yet.......still trying to figure out why I only got 18 Bases, I only commited to the attack on the condition that I received 22 Bases to DrSpike's 13.

And I agreed to send the Majority of my ships (which I did...though only just barely ).

I put the base split in my orders, and apparently DrSpike must have put something in too.......so why did I only receive 18 Bases? The only thing I can see is that Ljube choose to follow DrSpike's base split and not mine.....but what I don't understand is why that is? Is it because the orders didn't match so you choose the option that gave an even base split? (I need to be clear on this point as much for future games as I do for this one).


* Sparrowhawk

Edit: Also note to Theben, in this case we matched your OoB, in the allied attack on DrSpike, he countered Spaced Cowboy's and mine perfectly.

Important difference.

Last edited by Sparrowhawk on 19-12-2004 at 07:50

	19-12-2004 15:38									#107
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The founders decided that half of the total was more than you deserved (and this is borne out by the pitiful number of ships you sent, which could have cost us the battle), so giving you an even higher total was not possible in the end.

	19-12-2004 16:29									#108
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quote: Originally posted by Sparrowhawk Edit: Also note to Theben, in this case we matched your OoB, in the allied attack on DrSpike, he countered Spaced Cowboy's and mine perfectly. Important difference.

The point is either set has the same statistical probability, and if you can accept the latter occurred, you should consider the possibility that Spike got lucky against you guys in the former.

Considering how the 'allied assault' was pulled off, I'm thinking more and more that you & Spaced planned to send me to the dogs, and are miffed because you were hoisted on your own petard instead. Serves you right.

	19-12-2004 16:35									#109
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Theben still plugging away.

	19-12-2004 16:59									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Sparrowhawk Not ready to send orders just yet.......still trying to figure out why I only got 18 Bases, I only commited to the attack on the condition that I received 22 Bases to DrSpike's 13. And I agreed to send the Majority of my ships (which I did...though only just barely ). I put the base split in my orders, and apparently DrSpike must have put something in too.......so why did I only receive 18 Bases? The only thing I can see is that Ljube choose to follow DrSpike's base split and not mine.....but what I don't understand is why that is? Is it because the orders didn't match so you choose the option that gave an even base split? (I need to be clear on this point as much for future games as I do for this one). * Sparrowhawk Edit: Also note to Theben, in this case we matched your OoB, in the allied attack on DrSpike, he countered Spaced Cowboy's and mine perfectly. Important difference.

You cannot commit to an attack conditionally.

Since you did commit to this allied attack, in order for your proposed base split to be processed as such, your "ally" must agree to the exact same split of the bases. If he does not, the bases are split evenly. You got an extra base cause you sent your orders before DrSpike though.

	19-12-2004 19:34									#112
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Weyoun raised his eyebrows. Surely the Trabe can be thankful to have benefited from the glorious victories of the founders, despite making a limited contribution, he thought to himself. It would be very painful for us indeed to have to turn our forces against our allies. I hope that they see reason and submit before that occurs.

	19-12-2004 21:30									#113
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Okay, betrayed by Theben first and DrSpike second. I will have to remember that in future forum games

Second question.....how are the destroyed ships distributed between the players in an allied attack?
DrSpike sent considerably more ships then I did (both because he had more to send and he sent a higher percentage of his fleet), yet we each lost 7 Titans (Fighter). So to clarify, in an allied attack where ships are the same size (in this case Titans) regardless of the proportion of the ships in the attack, the losses are distributed evenly? (or to use a more extreme example, if DrSpike had sent 50 Titans and I had sent 2, and we lost 4 ships, both of mine would have been destroyed and 2 of his?). While propotioning out the losses seems more difficult, it also seems more fair to me. Has this never come up in previous games?

* Sparrowhawk

	19-12-2004 21:39									#114
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Surely the Trabe can be thankful to have benefited from the glorious victories of the founders, despite making a limited contribution, he thought to himself. It would be very painful for us indeed to have to turn our forces against our allies. I hope that they see reason and submit before that occurs.

The Trabe wish to clarify for the benefit of the founders and all who read this. You use the word allies too loosely, as we were never allies, you took an active role in the destruction of our allies, and are partially responsible for the downfall of the alliance the Trabe was part of. We merely attacked a mutual enemy (on the condition of a favourable base split for the Trabe, which you reneged upon.....see above). The Trabe will never submit to Dominion Slavery, we expect you to attempt to destroy us, and look forward to the attempt.

* Sparrowhawk

	19-12-2004 22:36									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Sparrowhawk The Trabe wish to clarify for the benefit of the founders and all who read this. You use the word allies too loosely, as we were never allies, you took an active role in the destruction of our allies, and are partially responsible for the downfall of the alliance the Trabe was part of. We merely attacked a mutual enemy (on the condition of a favourable base split for the Trabe, which you reneged upon.....see above). The Trabe will never submit to Dominion Slavery, we expect you to attempt to destroy us, and look forward to the attempt. * Sparrowhawk

The dominion honours all its allies, at least ones that attack when instructed and are happy with what they are given.

	19-12-2004 23:49									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Sparrowhawk Okay, betrayed by Theben first and DrSpike second. I will have to remember that in future forum games

It took you this long to figure that out?

	20-12-2004 04:04									#117
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Actually until now DrSpike didn't betray me, Theben did earlier, that was obvious.

DrSpike only just did , by agreeing with me on the base split in order to get me to attack with him (I never would have agreed to attack with an even base split) and then sending in different orders to Ljube.

It's all good though, not sure I would have gotten a chance to make use of the extra bases, and knowing that he will reneg on an agreement is useful information for future games.

* Sparrowhawk

	20-12-2004 05:45									#118
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike The dominion honours all its allies, at least ones that attack when instructed and are happy with what they are given.

The dominion treats its slaves well? Nice to know.

	20-12-2004 06:13									#119
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I was and am hoping for a response from Ljube about the way that destroyed ships are removed when allies attack but both Joncha and Skanky have posted since I asked the question.......surely one of you knows the answer?


Edit: Orders sent.

Last edited by Sparrowhawk on 20-12-2004 at 09:20

	20-12-2004 07:11									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Sparrowhawk Actually until now DrSpike didn't betray me, Theben did earlier, that was obvious. DrSpike only just did , by agreeing with me on the base split in order to get me to attack with him (I never would have agreed to attack with an even base split) and then sending in different orders to Ljube. * Sparrowhawk

He attacks your ally, and you expect him to honor an agreement?