18-03-2005 12:24									#151
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quote: Originally posted by Kassiopeia Oi vey! Do we really want to attack the Gaians? Are they a threat? What if they ally with the Morganites? What if they drag the Angels to a war against us, forcing us into the much dreaded 3 vs. 1 -situation?

Well the Gaians are already Pacted with the Morgans.

And I don't think either of the lesser factions will have any interest in helping the Morgans fight a war against us. They love seeing us playing each other out. The PTS raid and the Crawler striker have been great victories for us but probably greater victories for the Gaians and the Angels.

	18-03-2005 20:54									#152
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quote: Well the Gaians are already Pacted with the Morgans.

Whoa. I didn't know that. I have to start reading these forums again

	19-03-2005 03:10									#153
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quote: Originally posted by Snoddasmannen The PTS raid and the Crawler striker have been great victories for us but probably greater victories for the Gaians and the Angels.

Yeah I think we've been staring us a bit blind on the Morganites lately. Meanwhile the Gaians and Angels have grown and are now considerably stronger than before. Meaning we won't have won the game yet at all even if we defeat the Morganites.

The Data Angels already have 34 population as they've been popbooming lately. By comparison, Morgan has 42 pops. Considering they have a higher efficiency than us, a +1 economy rating and +2 Industry, I think their economy isn't that much smalller than ours at the moment...

While the Gaians aren't yet that strong, they already have 28 population, 14 bases, further boosted by a +2 Industry rating. As they have more bases than the Angels, once they switch to democratic, they could become even more powerful than the Angels (and us if we don't popboom ourselves).

That's why I think proceeding with this strike against the Gaians would be in our benefit. Look at the Morganites: they saw a B-6 outside Vander Eudaimonics and they suddenly switched from massive crawler production to massive missile infantry production. As the Gaians are afraid of us (see here), with some luck they'll overestimate the danger to them, and too drop all their builder production to switch to military. This operation wouldn't cost us anything - I'm just suggesting to use the units we already have in the area - so we could still concentrate on the Corporation.

And as Snoddasmannen says, the Gaians are already pacted with the Corporation, relations have always been bad, so diplomatically we don't lose much either AFAIK.

	19-03-2005 07:38									#154
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Okay. I have nothing against a war per se, I just wanted to make sure we aren't foolhardily doing a colossal mistake like the Morganites did when they attacked us. Now that I have all the information, I'd have to agree that vendetta with the Gaians would be a plausible option at this stage.

I don't think we even need much of a cause or reason for it, the fact that they have allied with our mortal enemy is a good casus belli already. Shall I set the wheels of our propaganda machine in motion?

	19-03-2005 13:18									#155
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Well, I think they asked for it.

	19-03-2005 16:11									#156
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Are we going to send them a request to move the foil right away? They have the turn and may not have it too long.

	19-03-2005 20:24									#157
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I'd suggest so - say that we are moving the cruiser trannie to pick up the cargo from the foil trannie so that it can in turn pick up the stranded rover

They can see all these units, so we're giving nothing away (they can't see the Iaca, though, nor the Invincible)

	27-03-2005 05:43									#158
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Hmm, should I deliver Chaos Theory a formal declaration of war? (it's fun to write them, that's all)

	27-03-2005 07:33									#159
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Sounds good.

	27-03-2005 12:33									#160
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Maybe peace talks with the Gaians are in order. How about we simply insist that they cancel their pact with the Morgans indefinately, in exchange for which we will withdraw our expeditionary force.

On the other hand, conquering Gaia could be fun. We could deploy our B-n's south instead of west, I'm sure they're a softer target.

	27-03-2005 17:50									#161
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You know, if we instead of outright declaring war suggested that we proceed immediately with peace talks, it'd give us a much better interfactional image. Even if it's just the wording of the message.

	27-03-2005 17:52									#162
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quote: Originally posted by Kassiopeia You know, if we instead of outright declaring war suggested that we proceed immediately with peace talks, it'd give us a much better interfactional image. Even if it's just the wording of the message.

Well, you did suggest exactly that in the Phalanx, so I think we are covered.

	28-03-2005 12:18									#163
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Whoa, perhaps this actually my responsibility now since I was given the job in the Phalanx But, I think we should stall negotiations until next turn when we have detroyed the Gaian stack and possibly done some more damage.

	28-03-2005 20:55									#164
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Well - per Maniac's suggestion we have already declared Vendetta

See here

(And as of now it's been 36 hours since the turn was posted, and still no Gaian has downloaded it , so yet another extension will inevitably be requested)

	28-03-2005 21:27									#165
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie (And as of now it's been 36 hours since the turn was posted, and still no Gaian has downloaded it , so yet another extension will inevitably be requested)

	28-03-2005 21:32									#166
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Darsnan and Illuminatus were online a while ago. So as far as I can tell it's not like they can't download and play the turn, they don't want to.

	28-03-2005 21:35									#167
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Let's hope they aren't thinking about bailing out on the game ...
(I can see how an unprovoked attack could have a demoralizing effect)

	29-03-2005 03:11									#168
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I could see it having the opposite effect, actually. Let's hope.

	04-04-2005 01:08									#169
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Moved from Sparta-Angels relations thread.

quote: Originally posted by Googlie LOL - and I was just going to suggest that we sail the Disco Volante around the Horn of Geomatrix to join the Gaian Expeditionary Force for some serious stuff ( the R-112, the Unity rover, upgraded, the Invincible and the SCC Iaci, plus the Disco would make a truly formidable task force attacking - and holding - any Gaian coastal base)

That, I think, should be a message we send to Gaia. Something like:
"We really want Morgan put down after all they did to us, and you are getting in the way. It would be a real shame if Gaian bases started appearing in Hivean colours all of a sudden..."

	04-04-2005 02:15									#170
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It's all a defensive action. Always has been.

	04-04-2005 02:21									#171
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Just thinking aloud here. If we switch to Green + Police State (this is under serious consideration IIRC), and gift some captured bases to Yang, we could really win him as our ally. The Gaians, being an easy target at the moment, could provide those bases (even if Yang loses them back quickly). Do I make sense?

	04-04-2005 02:48									#172
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Just a little hiccough - we need Cent Empathy to go green, and with the disabling of the EG it's not that attractive a tech for us now (except, of course, for the capturing of mindworms and Iod's)

Even the gaians haven't felt it was worth researching just yet

	26-04-2005 21:22									#173
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this passed to binTravkin at the Council meeting:

quote: e-mail from Googlie to Chaos Theory and binTravkin Greetings, Lords of the Gaian Union: With Lt Colonel Kassiopeia embarking for a few Planet years on project RL, I have been designated by the Junta to handle all the Spartan Federation's external affairs. The first order of business is agreeing to a truce. Although our 2 factions have somewhat of a history of cool relations, our recent "spat" was intended to be short lived in any event, as we needed to clear a passage for our fleet (and also somewhat as retribution for your pacting with our enemies, the Corporation) And in this context, rest assured that out units healing at the monolith at co-ordinates 61:57 have no ill designs against your base - they are indeed healing after being severly tested in our capture of the Hive's Huddling of the People base. They will board the transport waiting offshore after refreshing themselves and gaining their morale uplifts. We have high hopes for this Planetary Peace Conference, as we believe that a prolongued period of peace and prosperity will better enable us to cope with the irascible Chairman and his Hive minions. We see that you - like us - have been prudent in signing a truce, but our agents report that he is again in vendetta with the Corporation. It seems our friend needs a target to direct those forces towards. For our part - given that the Federation is geographically removed from the Gaian Union - we see little gain by our factions' continuing in a state of vendetta. Indeed, with the removeal of sanctions next year, it is in all our interests for harmonious relations to be restored, and the Junta is interested in the Gaian Union position on a possible Treaty of Friendship between our factions. Whether this could lead to a re-opening of our embassies, and eventual mutual technology trading, only time will tell. Regards, Colonel Googlie

My thinking is that if we get rebuffed by the Gaians, we can maybe waltz in and take that base, then gift it to the Hive

	26-04-2005 21:25									#174
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Public diplomacy in the Conference thread backed up by bilateral talks behind the scenes. I like it.

	19-05-2005 02:41									#175
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This copied from the Morgan thread, as a suggested send to the Gaians:

quote: "Dear Friends : We at Sparta Command are getting concerned that the Gaian Union is falling behind in the technology race, and risks becoming irrelevant on Chiron. We would like to remedy that, and offer you the opportunity to buy/trade from us the technology Planetary Economics, and with it the rights to build the Ascetic Virtues SP (This will increae your POLICE rating to a par with the other factions, and allow you substantial growth in the next few decades) And our terms are reasonable for such a unique opportunity: Treaty, 250 credits (which can be paid in up to 5 instalments), and the undertaking that you will not onward trade that technology to any 3rd party. As well, we would require formal acceptance of our right to broker any deals between our protectorate, the University, and any other faction. Interested"

	19-05-2005 06:05									#176
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And maybe this one, before PM'ing to binTravkin, needs to be a little more elaborate, in keeping with the other two:

quote: Dear Gaian Lords : We at Sparta Command are getting concerned that the Gaian Union is falling behind in the technology race, and risks becoming irrelevant on Chiron. We would like to remedy that, and offer you the opportunity to buy/trade from us the technology Planetary Economics, and with it the rights to build the Ascetic Virtues SP (This will increae your POLICE rating to a par with the other factions, and allow you substantial growth in the next few decades) (If these terms are acceptable, then the federation undertakes not to build the Ascetic Virtues ourselves) And our terms are reasonable for such a unique opportunity: Treaty 250 credits (half up front and the balance which can be paid in up to 5 annual instalments) and the undertaking that you will not onward trade that technology to any 3rd party the undertaking that you will not build the Cyborg Factory As well, we would require formal acceptance of our right to broker any deals and monitor any contacts between our Protectorate, the University, and the gaian union Is the Gaian Union interested?

	19-05-2005 07:43									#177
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so all that postering with the DA's only to give up AV to the gaians? From what I see, our main intent is to get back on treaty with the gaians so we can get the commerence bonus?

	19-05-2005 08:05									#178
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If we end up selling Plan Econ in 2172 to the Gaians and in 2173 to Morgan and to the Angels, we'll get:

750 ec's
MMI
Exclusive rights to build the Cyborg Factory
Formal recognition that we call the shots on University trades and contacts

in exchange, we don't buold the AV (and thus take the ethical high road), and we cut back our moDo borders somewhat

Not a bad trade off, IMO

(That's assuming they all 3 buy in)

	19-05-2005 12:12									#179
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I agree that the plan sounds good. That kind of cash can be very deadly if used for the correct upgrades.

	26-05-2005 19:22									#180
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I read we're at truce with the Gaians, so how about sending them something similar to what we sent the Corporation a while ago?

quote: To: The Corporation From: The Federation Since peace finally reigns again between the Corporation and the Federation, we were wondering whether you'd be interested in cementing our relationship by resuming technology trades. You've got the credits. We've got the techs. What better circumstances for tech trades could there be? Specifically, we have Doctrine : Initiative, Adaptive Doctrine, Cyberethics and Intellectual Integrity for sale. Imminently we will be able to add Neural Grafting and Planetary Economics to that list. Are you interested? Colonel Googlie ......... on behalf of the Federation

To who are PMs for the Gaians sent to these days btw?