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Maniac is offline Maniac
Emperor
Gent, Belgium
Jul 1999
time: 06:16
  Old Post 23-01-2005 21:09
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quote:
Spartan Federation has clearly and intentionally violated our teritorial sea hoping to obtain tactical data without being noticed.


We didn't mind being noticed.

Googlie is offline Googlie
Emperor
Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:16
  Old Post 23-01-2005 23:03 Visit Googlie's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Snoddasmannen
She was killed by an artillery shell from a gunship?


CRYPTEIA agents report that she was frolicking with her lover on a secluded nude beach on their south coast when a stray shell from the Invincible's target practice session fell on them

Ah well. that's life in the Gaian Union, I guess.

Snoddasmannen is offline Snoddasmannen
Prince

Jul 2004
time: 06:16
  Old Post 24-01-2005 03:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Googlie
CRYPTEIA agents report that she was frolicking with her lover on a secluded nude beach on their south coast


Trust the CRYPTEIA to monitor all the critical locations ...

Googlie is offline Googlie
Emperor
Commanding Officer, CRYPTEIA
Apr 1999
time: 21:16
  Old Post 24-01-2005 06:15 Visit Googlie's homepage!
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Technically, the only assassinations in-game are those of research scientists (where the faction then loses all accumulated lab points)

Assassination of "the leader, Lady Skye" isn't an in-game item, but a roleplay one, so yes, they are drumming up an excuse to become less friendly.

I reckon they realize from these last three turns that we've doubled in size, gained the overall lead (among our 4 factions) and so they are taking the position "Why should we do anything to help Sparta"

They can't take on us and the Hive, so I wouldn't fear any offensive action from them unless the Hive injuries to those units in their bases to our south are as a result of a Gaian spore launcher that's now headed our way into the fungal barrier

I'd follow a tactic (Modo - was it yours?) expressed in the general strategy/help forum of building an arty unit in MT and 2NutStrand and every turn bombard the fungus around the bases.

Snoddasmannen is offline Snoddasmannen
Prince

Jul 2004
time: 06:16
  Old Post 24-01-2005 12:46
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Debbie murdered! Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

We need to mock them Something for the next Phalanx perhaps?





"O, wet pets, never have I yet been so fortunate to get companions such as you.

Unlike my cats, you do not scratch, nor prey on small fowl, nor at midnight yowl.

You are quiet as the fog; not so for my dog. He jumps and will drool, and acts much the fool.

You are beauty in motion, and freedom in form; your life's but an ocean and mine to death foresworn. But never will I be alone, long as you are in my home."


- Lyn Duedall


Debbie murdered!

Two days ago, Debbie, Colonel Maniacs pet goldfish, was found floating on her back in her bowl in Sparta Command. Emergency veterinary personell was immediately dispatched but it was too late to save her life. Though cause of death is not yet established, sources inside the Junta indicate that they strongly suspect carassiuscide. How the assailant got in and out of the area is unknown, but CSI crews have found rubber boots, worms and fish-hooks in the vicinity of the bowl.

The Colonel was devastated and issued several statements to the effect that he would dispatch Spartan troops to annihalate which ever faction was behind this, and that a "global war" was inevitable. Official Junta spokespeople later explained that while the Colonels statements may have been slightly exaggerated, it was not at all unlikely that the assailant - when caught - would have to buy Maniac a new goldfish.

Modo44 is offline Modo44
Emperor
in western Poland
Jul 2004
time: 06:16
  Old Post 24-01-2005 13:46 Visit Modo44's homepage!
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Poor Debbie.

quote:
Originally posted by Googlie
I'd follow a tactic (Modo - was it yours?) expressed in the general strategy/help forum of building an arty unit in MT and 2NutStrand and every turn bombard the fungus around the bases.

Not mine. My "tactic" usually involves lots of cheap Rovers rolling over everything.

Maniac is offline Maniac
Emperor
Gent, Belgium
Jul 1999
time: 06:16
  Old Post 24-01-2005 16:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Googlie
I'd follow a tactic (Modo - was it yours?) expressed in the general strategy/help forum of building an arty unit in MT and 2NutStrand and every turn bombard the fungus around the bases.


Minas Tirith will finish a Coastal Guard next year, so that one can start already. Eg first patrol a bit with the seventh movement point returning back to the base, and then with its last MP bombard a fungal tile. Should also be handy to detect any incoming Hive troops.

quote:
Originally posted by Snoddasmannen
We need to mock them Something for the next Phalanx perhaps


Kassiopeia is offline Kassiopeia
Emperor
Jyväskylä, Finland
Jul 2001
time: 07:16
  Old Post 24-01-2005 21:47 Visit Kassiopeia's homepage!
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Debbie

I wonder if it's a bit too blatant though, I don't think the Gaians will take kindly for that and we need to be sure we want that

Snoddasmannen is offline Snoddasmannen
Prince

Jul 2004
time: 06:16
  Old Post 24-01-2005 23:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Kassiopeia
I wonder if it's a bit too blatant though, I don't think the Gaians will take kindly for that and we need to be sure we want that


Yes that's a good point, but I'm not so sure. We are presenting it as a fact in the role-playing. It is only a mockery in meta-roleplaying so to speak - ie real life So the only possible negative effect I can see would be to p the Gaian players for real. But if I were them I wouldn't really be offended. I can't see them using it as a casus beli in the game.

That's just my take, but on the other I'm biased to getting my work published

Kassiopeia is offline Kassiopeia
Emperor
Jyväskylä, Finland
Jul 2001
time: 07:16
  Old Post 26-01-2005 03:58 Visit Kassiopeia's homepage!
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quote:

I am sorry to inform you that Gaian Union has refused exchange of tactical information.


The feeling is mutual.

quote:
Although it is a logical step to pool resources against a common enemy, Gaian Union declines because of actions of Spartan Federation.

For years and years, Spartan Federation is deliberately violating our teritory rights, mapping Gaian coast with their foil. Spartan Federation has clearly and intentionally violated our teritorial sea hoping to obtain tactical data without being noticed.
This act has been identified as hostile and as such, Gaian Union will not share any tactical data with you. Additionally, Gaian Union requests navigation logs from the foil as a possible compensation for your transgression. They must not be attempted to be falsificated.


The Federation staunchly refuses to acknowledge any retroactive claims to sea territory. By default factional sea borders are limited to the coastline unless a coastal or sea base is in question. The green little lines on everyone's maps are considered to be this borderline.

Therefore any sea territory outside your coast has been considered, most likely by all factions so far, to be neutral territory. The Federation refuses to acknowledge transport through neutral waters as a hostile violation of territory. We are happy to acknowledge any possible territorial claim you are willing to make, the same way we have claimed sovereignity over our coastal waters (the Modo Doctrine) - however these claims can not, by common sense and logic, be in power retroactively.

quote:
Our investigation has shown that so called Morgan had nothing to do with assasination, in fact, Morgan never commited a hostile act against us, unlike Sparta.


As I stated, we have made no hostile act against you and will do our best to avoid doing so in the future, as well. Again, we'll be happy to oblige to reasonable sea territory claims you are willing to make.

quote:
Current suspects are Human Hive and Spartan Federation,


By the power of deduction, then, our mutual enemy, the Hiverian horde, is the culprit.

quote:
and since Human Hive foils do not cruise our coast, prime suspicion for the murder is Sparta.


Spartan exploratory vessels haven't had, haven't, nor will they ever have intelligence operatives onboard. The only possibility would be a shot shell going astray and hitting your venerable Lady, but our exploratory vessels have yet to fire a shot to this date (which may change with the Morganites commandeering one of them, though).

Please, do not make the Junta suspect the possibility that this is a trumped-up charge spinned out of nowhere to facilitate a souring of relations that is a part of some greater scheme against us. Between you and me, the Junta is getting too paranoid the way things are already.

Kassiopeia is offline Kassiopeia
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Jyväskylä, Finland
Jul 2001
time: 07:16
  Old Post 26-01-2005 04:03 Visit Kassiopeia's homepage!
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And to the end of that PM I'll add:

Now, unless this new turn in attitudes in the Gaian Union has affected our earlier tech agreement, I would like to relay to you a few questions and statements from our experts.

First off, since we are at war with the Hiverian horde, we desire IntInt ASAP because we need it to establish a safe defensive perimeter. This perimeter is required because we see our position as that of a 'lightning rod', which is attracting the wrath of the tempest that is engulfing Chiron this present moment.

When, then, will you have Intellectual Integrity at the current rate of research you are using? When are you going to research EcolEng yourselves (we need this information for our own logistical setup of the deal).

Also, can we agree to a clause that allows a party to use a friendly probe action to extract an agreed-upon tech in case sun spots obstruct normal diplomatic channels? Which brings in mind my final question - would you like to re-establish more formal diplomatic communications in the form of an embassy, or do you wish to stick to our current system?

Maniac is offline Maniac
Emperor
Gent, Belgium
Jul 1999
time: 06:16
  Old Post 26-01-2005 18:58
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Great message.

Btw, could I suggest two little additions?

quote:
The feeling is mutual. We didn't really need your tactical information. We just thought, as you indicated a lack of activity, that we would do you a favour by providing you some info. It is of course your free right to decline our help.


Makes us look like the good altruistic guys.

quote:
Therefore any sea territory outside your coast has been considered, most likely by all factions so far, to be neutral territory, and unlike what you think, we therefore didn't mind being noticed by you. The Federation refuses to acknowledge transport through neutral waters as a hostile violation of territory. We are happy to acknowledge any possible territorial claim you are willing to make as long as you have the ability to back them up, the same way we have claimed sovereignity over our coastal waters (the Modo Doctrine) - however these claims can not, by common sense and logic, be in power retroactively.


By adding "as long as you have the ability to back them up", we could still deny an eg Gaian claim of 8 tiles of territorial waters, by the argument they don't even have coastal bases and a decent navy.

Kassiopeia is offline Kassiopeia
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Jyväskylä, Finland
Jul 2001
time: 07:16
  Old Post 26-01-2005 19:15 Visit Kassiopeia's homepage!
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I've already sent the message, alas.

However,

quote:
By adding "as long as you have the ability to back them up", we could still deny an eg Gaian claim of 8 tiles of territorial waters, by the argument they don't even have coastal bases and a decent navy.


I modified the tone of the message a bit to: "We will accept any reasonable claims." What's reasonable or not will be up to us to decide. Ambiguity, the diplomat's best friend.

I did forget the line about not minding being noticed, but I think our point about us not doing anything wrong anyway was broadcasted well enough, regardless.

Maniac is offline Maniac
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Gent, Belgium
Jul 1999
time: 06:16
  Old Post 26-01-2005 20:11
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Indeed.

Snoddasmannen is offline Snoddasmannen
Prince

Jul 2004
time: 06:16
  Old Post 27-01-2005 04:46
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Good reply Kass

Kassiopeia is offline Kassiopeia
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Jyväskylä, Finland
Jul 2001
time: 07:16
  Old Post 07-02-2005 05:48 Visit Kassiopeia's homepage!
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From the Gaians (quotes are from my pm to them, normal text is Gaian response, italicized is my commentary):

quote:
he Federation staunchly refuses to acknowledge any retroactive claims to sea territory. By default factional sea borders are limited to the coastline unless a coastal or sea base is in question. The green little lines on everyone's maps are considered to be this borderline.

Therefore any sea territory outside your coast has been considered, most likely by all factions so far, to be neutral territory. The Federation refuses to acknowledge transport through neutral waters as a hostile violation of territory.

We are happy to considering the acknowledgement of a territorial claim you are willing to make, the same way we have claimed sovereignity over our coastal waters (the Modo Doctrine) - however these claims can not, by common sense and logic, be in power retroactively.


Your action has been perceived as intelligence run to secretly obtain tactical data on our coast and it cannot be explained any other way. However, if Sparta gives navigational logs of the foil it will show that Sparta has been acting foolishly in attempt to prepare for the inevitable showdown when factions will be forced to conflict eachother, and not because of immediate plans to attack Gaia. This may silence voices in High Council which have been insulted since Sparta asked for tactical pact while secretly obtaining data on Gaian coast, not mentioning threat in your message. There's really no good way to respond to this one is there? Either we've been planning to attack them now or to attack them later. I'd opt for "we are already involved in a war, how likely do *you* think it is we'll take on another enemy at the same time? Hmm?

quote:
As I stated, we have made no hostile act against you and will do our best to avoid doing so in the future, as well, since we harbour no hostile intent against you. Again, we'll be happy to oblige to reasonable sea territory claims you are willing to make.


Mapping Gaian coast in secret is a hostile act. High Council have requested unfalsified navigational logs from your navy regarding our coast to disuade fears about Sparta. Does avoiding to answer it mean refusal? What is there in these logs that we can't reveal to them? Additionally, is there a way we could falsify them without getting caught?

quote:
Spartan exploratory vessels haven't had, haven't, nor will they ever have intelligence operatives onboard. The only possibility would be a shot shell going astray and hitting your venerable Lady, but our exploratory vessels have yet to fire a shot to this date (which may change with the Morganites commandeering one of them, though).


Your previous and current actions, with added oportunity, have been reason to target you as prime suspect. Be lucky that motive and opportunity does not mean you are guilty. Gee, thanks.

quote:
Please, do not make the Junta suspect the possibility that this is a trumped-up charge spinned out of nowhere to facilitate a souring of relations that is a part of some greater scheme against us.


Relations are not soured by words but by actions. Please understand that asking for tactical pact while secretly mapping Gaian coast deeply insulted High Coucil. Your threat did not help much either. If you show you changed your attitude High Council will be happy to cooperate with you as it does easily with Angels. However High Council is now seriously convinced that Junta is preparing for inevitable invasion of Gaian Union. Due to your past actions and as such, you'll need to prove yourself to be trusted. Our past actions? Could someone recap to me, what it is we've done to them? All I remember is a little disagreement over whether or not a deal had been agreed upon yet.

quote:
Now, unless this new turn in attitudes in the Gaian Union has affected our earlier tech agreement, I would like to relay to you a few questions and statements from our experts wrt. the tech arrangement agreed upon earlier.


What new turn in attitudes do you speak of? Gaian attitude towards Sparta has not changed a single bit for past 15 years. Of course Gaians will be disturbed because of already mentioned reasons. Well I don't know, trumping up charges of territorial transgression and accusing us of past actions that never happened in the first place?

However keep in mind, Gaian Union does operate with profit in mind. Gaians will always accept a deal if it is good for them, regardless of relations with target faction. This is why your past offer has been accepted. Gaian Union does not break agreed deals unless the other side breaks it, so you have nothing to worry about. That's good to hear. We'll see.

quote:
First off, since we are at war with the Hiverian horde, we desire IntInt ASAP because we need it to establish a safe defensive perimeter. This perimeter is required because we see our position as that of a 'lightning rod', which is attracting the wrath of the tempest that is engulfing Chiron this present moment.

When, then, will you have Intellectual Integrity at the current rate of research you are using? When are you going to research EcolEng yourselves (we need this information for our own logistical setup of the deal).


Your comment about Sparta being lightning rod for Hive inadvetently laughed most of Gaians. Gaia is lightning rod, and sadly Gaians would be quite happy to change that position as production of an army forced redirection of resources from population expansion. If Hive does really move away his stacks of units towards your front Gaians will be happy to see them smashing against Spartan perimeters. Laugh at us if you may, but once we start bonking Morganite heads you'll realize how we've managed to keep them in the game all along.

Lab/energy output is changing every turn (each turn makes either emphasis on credits or labs), however it will be within 1-4 years. On the other hand, Gaian Union needs EE next turn, for the possibility that breakthough occurs next turn. You will receive II preaccepted as soon as research is finished. Nothing to say here, the tech experts, Maniac, Googlie, this is hopefully what you wanted to know.

quote:
Also, can we agree to a clause that allows a party to use a friendly probe action to extract an agreed-upon tech in case sun spots obstruct normal diplomatic channels?


Sadly, I need to inform you that no faction is allowed to probe Gaian Union in any case under any circumstances. This includes Spartan Federation. Additionaly, do not move probe foils/cruisers near our coast as High Council has passed a law that would give a directive to destroy any trespassing probe team, regardless of its motives and faction of origin. It is shoot first, ask questions later policy when it comes to probe teams and security, and diplomatic relations do not affect this. Yada yada yada. You already said you don't trust us, why not just say it again.

quote:
Which brings in mind my final question - would you like to re-establish more formal diplomatic communications in the form of an embassy, or do you wish to stick to our current system?


There already was an embassy and Junta destroyed it. Heh, touché. If it suits you, fine by me.

Maniac is offline Maniac
Emperor
Gent, Belgium
Jul 1999
time: 06:16
  Old Post 07-02-2005 07:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Kassiopeia
There's really no good way to respond to this one is there? Either we've been planning to attack them now or to attack them later.


Not necessarily. How about a response sounding a bit like this:

We of course won’t deny we are after victory, but this doesn’t necessarily mean there should be an inevitable showdown between all factions. Sparta is currently pondering the possibility of adopting a “junior partner”. I’ll elaborate this concept. The rules specifically forbid a cooperative victory between equal partners. However I guess there’s nothing wrong with a game where one faction is clearly recognized as the winner, while there’s another faction left in the end that is recognized as finishing in second place. Probably you realize the Gaian Union has little chance to win this game. So ask yourself: what would be the most fun way of ending the game? Seeing your bases being burned by invading forces, powerless to do anything against it? Or ending the game in cooperation with another faction towards a common goal (eg capturing the headquarters of our mutual enemy the Hive), even if you aren’t the real winner? You were there too in the last weeks of the Cybenetic Consciousness. You already know the answer.

I’m kinda thinking, after burning Morgan Industries, having a junior partner could be the only possibility to keep a 3-to-1 forming against us. I doubt the Gaians would agree to something like this though. Perhaps the Angels?

quote:
Originally posted by the Gaians
Your action has been perceived as intelligence run to secretly obtain tactical data

quote:
Mapping Gaian coast in secret is a hostile act

quote:
Please understand that asking for tactical pact while secretly mapping Gaian coast deeply insulted High Coucil.


They keep saying how we’ve “secretly” mapped their coast. Perhaps we should tell them after all that we didn’t mind being noticed, as we saw those seas as neutral territory? “Else why would we have ended our ship right next to your coast every turn for everyone to see?”

quote:
Your comment about Sparta being lightning rod for Hive inadvetently laughed most of Gaians. Gaia is lightning rod, and sadly Gaians would be quite happy to change that position as production of an army forced redirection of resources from population expansion. If Hive does really move away his stacks of units towards your front Gaians will be happy to see them smashing against Spartan perimeters.


Actually that megastack the Pegasus noticed changed directions right after Yang declared war on us. If it wasn’t for us, their complete three-worm-army would be toast by now. They should thank us.

quote:
Lab/energy output is changing every turn (each turn makes either emphasis on credits or labs), however it will be within 1-4 years. On the other hand, Gaian Union needs EE next turn, for the possibility that breakthough occurs next turn. You will receive II preaccepted as soon as research is finished.


So they’re probably constantly shifting between high economy and high labs, made possible by their high Efficiency SE rating. I don’t follow their argument though that they should immediately get EcoEng “for the possibility that breakthough occurs next turn”. Surely they should know whether or not they’re going to switch to high labs production or not.

quote:
Additionaly, do not move probe foils/cruisers near our coast as High Council has passed a law that would give a directive to destroy any trespassing probe team, regardless of its motives and faction of origin.


What fleet are they going to use for that?

Snoddasmannen is offline Snoddasmannen
Prince

Jul 2004
time: 06:16
  Old Post 07-02-2005 12:24
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It looks like the Gaians just want some cheap exploration data. They're trying to bully us in to giving away intelligence? Come on. ..
I like Maniacs reply:
quote:

Probably you realize the Gaian Union has little chance to win this game. So ask yourself: what would be the most fun way of ending the game?

What a brutal chop right at the Gaians Let them know how lowly we regard them and they'll at least give up their attempts to extort us. We could basically reply with something very blunt like that, and not even reply to their other accusations, or we could just continue to argue the points the way you guys excellently suggest above. The latter is far more polite

Modo44 is offline Modo44
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time: 06:16
  Old Post 07-02-2005 14:30 Visit Modo44's homepage!
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Remember one thing. We are in the stronger position here, not the Gaians. I'm answering separate from Maniac here.

quote:
Originally posted by Kassiopeia
[...] However, if Sparta gives navigational logs of the foil it will show that Sparta has been acting foolishly in attempt to prepare for the inevitable showdown when factions will be forced to conflict eachother, and not because of immediate plans to attack Gaia. This may silence voices in High Council which have been insulted since Sparta asked for tactical pact while secretly obtaining data on Gaian coast, not mentioning threat in your message.[...]

We don't need to give them anything to show our (currently ) peaceful attitude. If we had planned to attack, they would be toast by now. They aren't, because we didn't. I'd tell them exactly that. Straight to their face, as a Spartan does.

quote:
Originally posted by Kassiopeia
Mapping Gaian coast in secret is a hostile act. High Council have requested unfalsified navigational logs from your navy regarding our coast to disuade fears about Sparta. Does avoiding to answer it mean refusal? What is there in these logs that we can't reveal to them? Additionally, is there a way we could falsify them without getting caught?

Wrong. It wasn't in secret - they knew of the ship. And we don't give navigational logs to anyone, not for any reason. They are all classified. Period.

quote:
Originally posted by Kassiopeia
Your previous and current actions, with added oportunity, have been reason to target you as prime suspect. Be lucky that motive and opportunity does not mean you are guilty. Gee, thanks.

Blah blah blah. If you want war, bring it on. Otherwise, shut up.

quote:
Originally posted by Kassiopeia
Relations are not soured by words but by actions. Please understand that asking for tactical pact while secretly mapping Gaian coast deeply insulted High Coucil. Your threat did not help much either. If you show you changed your attitude High Council will be happy to cooperate with you as it does easily with Angels. However High Council is now seriously convinced that Junta is preparing for inevitable invasion of Gaian Union. Due to your past actions and as such, you'll need to prove yourself to be trusted. Our past actions? Could someone recap to me, what it is we've done to them? All I remember is a little disagreement over whether or not a deal had been agreed upon yet.

Are we in a Treaty with Gaia? If not, perhaps that would be the action they desire. A honourable one, because not so one-sided as demanding navigation logs. Meaning, the Junta could actually accept it.

quote:
Originally posted by Kassiopeia
What new turn in attitudes do you speak of? Gaian attitude towards Sparta has not changed a single bit for past 15 years. Of course Gaians will be disturbed because of already mentioned reasons. Well I don't know, trumping up charges of territorial transgression and accusing us of past actions that never happened in the first place?

Talking peacefully about a tech trade, and then accusing of hostile actions. This is very much a turning of attitude to me. Almost like they play dumb here.

quote:
Originally posted by Kassiopeia
However keep in mind, Gaian Union does operate with profit in mind. Gaians will always accept a deal if it is good for them, regardless of relations with target faction. This is why your past offer has been accepted. Gaian Union does not break agreed deals unless the other side breaks it, so you have nothing to worry about. That's good to hear. We'll see.

Aha, no honour. Good to know. No, don't tell them that.

Tell them we accept their reasons, however, they should accept ours as well. After all, we know we have different agendas, and nothing can change this. BUT, we want peace and cooperation for now, and for the future.

quote:
Originally posted by Kassiopeia
Your comment about Sparta being lightning rod for Hive inadvetently laughed most of Gaians. Gaia is lightning rod, and sadly Gaians would be quite happy to change that position as production of an army forced redirection of resources from population expansion. If Hive does really move away his stacks of units towards your front Gaians will be happy to see them smashing against Spartan perimeters. Laugh at us if you may, but once we start bonking Morganite heads you'll realize how we've managed to keep them in the game all along.

*nods* Exactly as commented.

quote:
Originally posted by Kassiopeia
Lab/energy output is changing every turn (each turn makes either emphasis on credits or labs), however it will be within 1-4 years. On the other hand, Gaian Union needs EE next turn, for the possibility that breakthough occurs next turn. You will receive II preaccepted as soon as research is finished. Nothing to say here, the tech experts, Maniac, Googlie, this is hopefully what you wanted to know.

Good to hear this.

quote:
Originally posted by Kassiopeia
Sadly, I need to inform you that no faction is allowed to probe Gaian Union in any case under any circumstances. This includes Spartan Federation. Additionaly, do not move probe foils/cruisers near our coast as High Council has passed a law that would give a directive to destroy any trespassing probe team, regardless of its motives and faction of origin. It is shoot first, ask questions later policy when it comes to probe teams and security, and diplomatic relations do not affect this. Yada yada yada. You already said you don't trust us, why not just say it again.

Pure paranoia. Nothing new, I agree.

quote:
Originally posted by Kassiopeia
There already was an embassy and Junta destroyed it. Heh, touché. If it suits you, fine by me.

Blah, they must know it was too tedious to keep posting bumps when nothing happened. They didn't, Googlie did, right? yada yada yada.

Maniac is offline Maniac
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  Old Post 07-02-2005 15:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Modo44
Aha, no honour. Good to know.




Btw, though I don't like the sound either of giving navigational logs, if we wanted to, we could perhaps promise to give them after they gave us IntInt? Presuming we want to continue the EcoEng<->IntInt deal of course.(?)

Another point. The Gaians seem to think we have threatened them. Perhaps they have misunderstood this:
quote:
Spartan exploratory vessels haven't had, haven't, nor will they ever have intelligence operatives onboard. The only possibility would be a shot shell going astray and hitting your venerable Lady, but our exploratory vessels have yet to fire a shot to this date (which may change with the Morganites commandeering one of them, though).

Perhaps they didn't get we were referring to the Hunter being mindcontrolled by the Morganites?

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If we can propose a Treaty, we should. Also, we can state clearly, that we have no aggressive intentions against the Gaians at this moment (to counter their paranoia). That, I hope, would calm them down enough.

The navigation logs I find too valuable to give away, especially since the deal for IntInt didn't include any additional payments. Might be they're just trying to pull more out of us, but why would we give more? I mean, they ARE getting technology already, aren't they? Their attitude here seems almost more greedy that the Morganic one.

Of corse we want to continue the deal. We proposed it, remember?

Last edited by Modo44 on 07-02-2005 at 15:51

Kassiopeia is offline Kassiopeia
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  Old Post 07-02-2005 17:45 Visit Kassiopeia's homepage!
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Hmm, looks like the consensus is to play some hardball with them? :naughty.

Googlie is offline Googlie
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  Old Post 07-02-2005 18:57 Visit Googlie's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Modo44
If we can propose a Treaty, we should.


We are already Treatied with the Gaians:

Attachment: 2158 treaty status.jpg
This has been downloaded 44 time(s).

Modo44 is offline Modo44
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Ok, so while in a Treaty, they are becoming aggressive? Maybe we should show our paranoia then, and ask them if they are planning to jump on us, like Morgan did?

Kassiopeia is offline Kassiopeia
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  Old Post 09-02-2005 06:23 Visit Kassiopeia's homepage!
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Message for the Gaians:

I have been instructed to contact you in diplomatic affairs, Lord Chaos Theory, so here goes.

quote:
Your action has been perceived as intelligence run to secretly obtain tactical data on our coast and it cannot be explained any other way. However, if Sparta gives navigational logs of the foil it will show that Sparta has been acting foolishly in attempt to prepare for the inevitable showdown when factions will be forced to conflict eachother, and not because of immediate plans to attack Gaia. This may silence voices in High Council which have been insulted since Sparta asked for tactical pact while secretly obtaining data on Gaian coast, not mentioning threat in your message.


Had we planned to attack you, we would have done so already. Currently we are involved in a vendetta with the Hive and the Morganites - how willing to go into a war with three fronts do you think we are? While we our researchers may not be the brightest on planet, our strategists are.

We of course won’t deny we are after victory, but this doesn’t necessarily mean there should be an inevitable showdown between all factions. Sparta is currently pondering the possibility of adopting a “junior partner”. I'll elaborate on this concept. The rules specifically forbid a cooperative victory between equal partners. However, it is my interpretation that there is nothing wrong with a game where one faction is clearly recognized as the winner, while there’s another faction left in the end that is recognized as finishing in second place.

(Somewhat OOC) Probably you yourselves realize the Gaian faction has little chance to actually win this game. So ask yourselves: what would be the most fun way of ending the game? Seeing your bases being burned by invading forces, powerless to do anything against it? Or ending the game in cooperation with another faction towards a common goal (e.g. capturing the headquarters of our mutual enemy the Hive), even if you aren't the "real" winner? Some of you were there too in the last weeks of the Cybenetic Consciousness. You already know the answer. (End OOC)

This of course is a long shot, and we acknowledge and understand if you won't entertain even the very notion of it. We just felt like airing the possibility.

quote:
apping Gaian coast in secret is a hostile act. High Council have requested unfalsified navigational logs from your navy regarding our coast to disuade fears about Sparta. Does avoiding to answer it mean refusal?


Had we actually planned to map your coast in secrecy, rest assured, you would have never found out. As we considered that area of the Planet neutral waters, we made no effort to conceal our presence there. Why else would we have ended the turn with our ship right next to your coast every turn, where everyone could see it? And why do you bring this up only now at a later date? Hence our suspicions of your motives for bringing this up.

We contest any claims of territorial transgression, hostility or secrecy, and the Federation never discloses navigational logs with other factions without a very good reason. You have provided none.

quote:
What new turn in attitudes do you speak of? Gaian attitude towards Sparta has not changed a single bit for past 15 years. Of course Gaians will be disturbed because of already mentioned reasons.


The first moment we are engaged in promising talks about a tech trade, and the next we are accused of intruding on your territory for no good reason at all. I do not know about the Gaian way, but the Spartan way says that this is a rather radical change in attitude.

quote:
Your comment about Sparta being lightning rod for Hive inadvetently laughed most of Gaians. Gaia is lightning rod, and sadly Gaians would be quite happy to change that position as production of an army forced redirection of resources from population expansion. If Hive does really move away his stacks of units towards your front Gaians will be happy to see them smashing against Spartan perimeters.


Actually that large stack the Pegasus noticed changed directions right after Yang declared war on us. If it wasn’t for us, your entire force of three worm boils would be husks and planet pearls by now. You're welcome.

quote:
Lab/energy output is changing every turn (each turn makes either emphasis on credits or labs), however it will be within 1-4 years. On the other hand, Gaian Union needs EE next turn, for the possibility that breakthough occurs next turn. You will receive II preaccepted as soon as research is finished.


"For the possibility that breakthough occurs next turn"? Surely you should know whether or not you're going to switch to high labs production or not?

quote:
Additionaly, do not move probe foils/cruisers near our coast as High Council has passed a law that would give a directive to destroy any trespassing probe team, regardless of its motives and faction of origin.


And I wish the best of luck to your enormous fleet in carrying out that tall order.

I feel that I must clarify something I've noted to the Gaian Union before, something I may have misworded to create a meaning that was not there. When I said The only possibility would be a shot shell going astray and hitting your venerable Lady, but our exploratory vessels have yet to fire a shot to this date (which may change with the Morganites commandeering one of them, though)., I meant that the Hunter under Morganite command may become the first exploratory vessel of Spartan origin to fire a shot. It was not intended as a threat of any sort, more as a side remark vis-a-vis Morganite crimes.

Modo44 is offline Modo44
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  Old Post 09-02-2005 13:29 Visit Modo44's homepage!
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Do we need the ooc stuff? I'm sure thay are aware of their (in)abilities without it.

vishniac is offline vishniac
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  Old Post 09-02-2005 16:32
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While not giving them what they demand, we shouldn't appear too confident for a while. otherwise, they could transmit that feeling to the Morganites via diplomatic channels.
Better let them think that we have already too much on our plate and are under heavy Hive attack: thus, they'll perhaps tell that to the Corporation, stopping dead any fear that we'll attack further (and assuring surprise for the PTS raid).

Kassiopeia is offline Kassiopeia
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  Old Post 10-02-2005 03:44 Visit Kassiopeia's homepage!
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How about this then?

I have been instructed to contact you in diplomatic affairs, Lord Chaos Theory, so here goes.

quote:
Your action has been perceived as intelligence run to secretly obtain tactical data on our coast and it cannot be explained any other way. However, if Sparta gives navigational logs of the foil it will show that Sparta has been acting foolishly in attempt to prepare for the inevitable showdown when factions will be forced to conflict eachother, and not because of immediate plans to attack Gaia. This may silence voices in High Council which have been insulted since Sparta asked for tactical pact while secretly obtaining data on Gaian coast, not mentioning threat in your message.


Had we planned to attack you, we would have done so already. Currently we are involved in a vendetta with the Hive and the Morganites - how willing to go into a war with three fronts do you think we are? While we our researchers may not be the brightest on Planet, our strategists are. Our forces will be busy with these current conflicts that have been thrust upon us for a long time, rest assured.

quote:
Mapping Gaian coast in secret is a hostile act. High Council have requested unfalsified navigational logs from your navy regarding our coast to disuade fears about Sparta. Does avoiding to answer it mean refusal?


Had we actually planned to map your coast in secrecy, you would have never found out. As we considered that area of the Planet neutral waters, we made no effort to conceal our presence there. Why else would we have ended the turn with our ship right next to your coast every turn, where everyone could see it? And why do you bring this up only now at a later date? Hence our suspicions of your motives for bringing this up.

We contest any claims of territorial transgression, hostility or secrecy, and the Federation never discloses navigational logs with other factions without a very good reason. You have provided none.

quote:
What new turn in attitudes do you speak of? Gaian attitude towards Sparta has not changed a single bit for past 15 years. Of course Gaians will be disturbed because of already mentioned reasons.


The first moment we are engaged in promising talks about a tech trade, and the next we are accused of intruding on your territory for no good reason at all. I do not know about the Gaian way, but the Spartan way says that this is a rather radical change in attitude.

quote:
Your comment about Sparta being lightning rod for Hive inadvetently laughed most of Gaians. Gaia is lightning rod, and sadly Gaians would be quite happy to change that position as production of an army forced redirection of resources from population expansion. If Hive does really move away his stacks of units towards your front Gaians will be happy to see them smashing against Spartan perimeters.


Actually that large stack the Pegasus noticed changed directions right after Yang declared war on us. If it wasn’t for us, your entire force of three worm boils would be husks and planet pearls by now. We will have to take care of that stack and many others from now on. Why, you're welcome.

quote:
Lab/energy output is changing every turn (each turn makes either emphasis on credits or labs), however it will be within 1-4 years. On the other hand, Gaian Union needs EE next turn, for the possibility that breakthough occurs next turn. You will receive II preaccepted as soon as research is finished.


"For the possibility that breakthough occurs next turn"? Surely you should know whether or not you're going to switch to high labs production or not?

quote:
Additionaly, do not move probe foils/cruisers near our coast as High Council has passed a law that would give a directive to destroy any trespassing probe team, regardless of its motives and faction of origin.


And I wish the best of luck to your enormous fleet in carrying out that tall order.

I feel that I must clarify something I've noted to the Gaian Union before, something I may have misworded to create a meaning that was not there. When I said The only possibility would be a shot shell going astray and hitting your venerable Lady, but our exploratory vessels have yet to fire a shot to this date (which may change with the Morganites commandeering one of them, though)., I meant that the Hunter under Morganite command may become the first exploratory vessel of Spartan origin to fire a shot. It was not intended as a threat of any sort, more as a side remark vis-a-vis Morganite crimes.

Modo44 is offline Modo44
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Sounds good.

Googlie is offline Googlie
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  Old Post 10-02-2005 19:52 Visit Googlie's homepage!
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Re: this post in the Angels Embassy by Kassiopeia:

quote:
Posted in the Angels Embassy by Kassiopeia
Yes, the Gaians have confirmed to us that this trade will be carried out. The further organization of this trade operation I will leave to the more able hands of our Colonels


So we need to formally send Ecol Eng, pre-accepted, to the Gaians this turn, I presume. Do we also send it to the Angels, or do they get it from the Gaians in exchange for delivering Cyberethics to them and us?

 
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