24-12-2004 13:11									#61
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Well, Harry, your ideas certainly have merit. The real issue remains however; the pacific war was primarily a naval conflict with the principal units of strength being aircraft carriers. This is the essence of the theatre. If the AI is incapable of using them in any rational way, then it makes the whole undertaking much more unrealistic.

I was delighted when I first purchased my MGE. It had East Wind/Rain on it, which was the first Pacific war scenario I had ever seen. How I was disappointed when I realized the severe limitations of the AI in regard to carrier warfare.

How much better things could be if both sides could be played by humans.

Oddly, this is one cavern where no one has delved. MGE has the capability to play simultaneously, thru I-net connect. I've only tried it once, and failed, I believe because I didn't have a high-speed connection at the time. Given that both sides have a high speed connect, I don't see why two people can't play a scenario simultaneously, just like people often do the vanilla/default game in other areas of this very site.

	24-12-2004 13:44									#62
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edit

Last edited by techumseh on 24-12-2004 at 22:28

	24-12-2004 14:21									#63
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I wonder if the Japanes might require two types of battleships? One for their many older, WWI types and a second one for the state-of-the-art monsters of the Yamato class.

	24-12-2004 20:34									#64
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Go with 2 types, the yamato and an older one
don't do the kongo class, try something different
use a Ise class, they look like they'll fit the type,
use this page for reference
http://www.combinedfleet.com/bb.htm
this site is a goldmine for ww2 navy info

	24-12-2004 22:30									#65
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Like Exile, I wonder why no-one actually tries to get a real MP game of CIV2 going here.

Imagine something like Red Front, but with human players!

Top notch!

	24-12-2004 23:30									#66
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No MP-Game please...

	25-12-2004 00:24									#67
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Sorry I took so long responding, people. Thanks for the additional units, typhoon, they should help greatly! As for the issue of carrier and amphibious warfare, I've read your warnings and advice very carefully, but I think that events related solutions would likely work better than just giving the US starting carriers and marines and letting them sit or be wasted. However, what if I set the US carriers' attack rating to 0 to avoid suicide attacks (vanilla civ carriers only have a 1 anyway). Any thoughts on how (and if) that could work?

	25-12-2004 00:45									#68
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I'm just glad such a good scenario is generating so much discussion. I guess there is still a great hunger for a Pacific War scenario.

	25-12-2004 01:16									#69
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Say, could I ask someone to make me a good atomic bomber unit (just a generic bomber to use as an early nuke equivalent). Other than Communist Chinese insurgents, neutral garrison, and US home forces units, I've got all the unit graphics I really need.

@Sarsstock: I too am pleased at the abundance of input on this scen. And, great flags, Chris!

	25-12-2004 01:45									#70
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quote: Originally posted by curtsibling Like Exile, I wonder why no-one actually tries to get a real MP game of CIV2 going here.

Although I'm not sure whether you mean PBEM or some other form of MP, I think that there are several reasons.

MP games tend to take a very long time to play because about the best that can be expected is that each player will take a day to make his/her move. This problem is compounded when players are scattered across many time zones.

When I first tripped across CFC and Poly I spent considerable time reading threads to get an idea about the sites and the individual forums. I recall two posts by players A and B where player A was looking for a MP game and player B's response (IIRC, this is an accurate paraphrase) was that "I suspect that you have been reloading but, sure, let's have a game".

To make sure that I wasn't talking BS, I just took a look at the Poly PBEM forum and found this gem of a post by a player who has also been very active in the various Democracy games at Poly.

quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 My patience for delays in PBEMs is at an all time low. Probably because Ive only finished ONE in about 20 months of playing

	25-12-2004 06:41									#71
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quote: Originally posted by curtsibling Like Exile, I wonder why no-one actually tries to get a real MP game of CIV2 going here. Imagine something like Red Front, but with human players! Top notch!

Kobra (also known as eivind) and I once started playing a game of Second Reich by Michael Jeszenka together in a network game. We didn't get very far because he had to get going (time zone difference) but it certainly is fun and doable.

	25-12-2004 08:17									#72
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@ Patine

Here's some B29s by fairline. The one in the centre is the Enola Gay, the plane which dropped the Hiroshima bomb.

Attachment: fairline b29.gif
This has been downloaded 178 time(s).

	25-12-2004 09:02									#73
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what was the plane that carried the Nagasaki bomb

	25-12-2004 09:48									#74
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If I'm not wrong it was Bock's Car, flown by Captain Frederick C. Bock.

	25-12-2004 18:40									#75
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You're almost right, the plane's name was 'Bockscar'. It was named after its commander Capt. F.C. Bocks. But on this mission the plane was flown by Major Sweeney, Capt. Bock was flying an observation plane. The primary target was Kokura, but because of the heavy clouds and smoke, they chosed the secondary target, Nagasaki.

	25-12-2004 19:14									#76
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Thanks a lot, typhoon! That should do nicely.

	26-12-2004 04:18									#77
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quote: Originally posted by typhoon But I'm quite sure there were Aussie troops in Malaya under Archibald Wavell at some time. Led by that Gordon Bennet fellow, no less

Yeah, the Australian 8th Division had two of its three brigades in southern Malaya at the start of the war, and the division surrendered with the fall of Singapore (with Bennet abandoning his men and fleeing to Australia. He spent the rest of the war as the commander of the West Australian Garrison, III Corps.) The division's third brigade was no more fortunate - it was split into three battalion groups, which were destroyed at Ambon, Kupang and Rabaul.

The only bit of the division which survived was one of its artillery regiments which was retained at Darwin for local defence. In August 1945 this regiment took the surrender of the massive Japanese force at Rabaul.

	28-12-2004 04:06									#78
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Well, work has begun in earnest on the scen now. What I need some advice on now is events: namely, major amphibious and carrier battles to create US units at (other than the obvious, like Midway, Guadacanal, Rabaul, Iwo Jima, and Okinawa). If someone could fill in some notable gaps, I'd greatly appreciate it!

	29-12-2004 14:29									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Patine Well, work has begun in earnest on the scen now. What I need some advice on now is events: namely, major amphibious and carrier battles to create US units at (other than the obvious, like Midway, Guadacanal, Rabaul, Iwo Jima, and Okinawa). If someone could fill in some notable gaps, I'd greatly appreciate it!

The basic dyanmic of the Allied counter offensive was that a joint Australian-US force advanced along northern New Guinea from the second half of 1942 until early 1944. Simultaneously, a US force advanced up the Solomon Islands. The bases in New Guniea were used to launch the liberation of the Philipines in late 1944.

In late 1943 a second front was opened, with US forces advancing through the central pacific. This advance culminated in mid-1944 with the conquest of the Marianas. Bases in the Marianas were used to launch the invasion of Okinawa in early 1945.

As for the actual timing and key locations, I strongly recomend that you read a book on this topic. There's no way that you can make a decent scenario without doing so.

	30-12-2004 01:42									#80
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Thanks for the info (and advice), Case! I appreciate it! Any suggestions on a good book or two you enjoyed on the topic?

	30-12-2004 06:37									#81
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Another question of opinion, to anyone who'd like to answer it. Who should ultimately control the Western part of Canada that appears on the map: the US or the British?

	30-12-2004 07:23									#82
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the british, it's more realistic that way,

	30-12-2004 08:04									#83
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I would actually, after a bit of thought, agree.

	30-12-2004 08:22									#84
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Another question is who should start with control of French Indo-China. One could say the Brits, then again, it might be better to have the Dutch control it. Any suggestions?

	30-12-2004 09:28									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Patine Thanks for the info (and advice), Case! I appreciate it! Any suggestions on a good book or two you enjoyed on the topic?

John Keegan's book 'The Second World War' would be an excelent starting point. You should have no trouble finding a copy of this, and it's well worth buying - IMO, it's the best single-volume history of the war.

If you can find a copy, Samuel E. Morison's book 'The Two Ocean War' would be invaluable - it's the condensed version of his brilliant Offical History of the USN in WW2 series and has heaps of information on naval operations in the Pacific.

quote: Originally posted by Patine Another question of opinion, to anyone who'd like to answer it. Who should ultimately control the Western part of Canada that appears on the map: the US or the British?

Definetly the US. The US and Canada co-operated very closely in the Alaskan Theatre, which made up virtually all of Canada's participation in the Pacific Theatre. The only time Canadian units served under British control in the Pacific was during the ill-fated defence of Hong Kong in 1941.

However, you may only want to give the Canadians one or two cities - historically, the Canadians concentrated on Europe, and had very little involvement in the Pacific War.

quote: Another question is who should start with control of French Indo-China. One could say the Brits, then again, it might be better to have the Dutch control it. Any suggestions?

You may as well give it to Japan. By December 1941 they were basically running the place, with the Vichy sponsored colonial administration generally taking it's marching orders from Tokyo. While Japan formally occupied the place in 1944, they had heaps of bases in Indochina before this, with the invasion forces that hit Malaya and the Dutch East Indies staging out of southern Indochina.

	30-12-2004 10:18									#86
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Thanks a lot for the advice. I wasn't aware of Japan's stranglehold on Indochina that early, actually (East Wind, Rain poratrays the 'Free French,' who begin with French Indochina, as well as Tahiti and a few other islands, as a strong Allied power under Charles DeGaulle, though even then that didn't seem right to me).

	30-12-2004 10:42									#87
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Mabe you could find this useful, i'm on a shipbuilding spree
and i rebuilt a Kongo class bb to get a Fuso class bb
the fuso class had 16 14inch guns 8X2 and a top speed of
24 knots

Attachment: ijns-fuso.png
This has been downloaded 136 time(s).

Last edited by Broken_Erika on 30-12-2004 at 11:02

	30-12-2004 11:34									#88
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Yes Case you are right about Canadians in Hong Kong, even though ironically Hong Kong was the first time Canadians saw ground action in the Second World War. Two battalions totalling 1895 men were sent to the city ahead of 212 vehicles to participate in what was considered a "low risk assignment" due what was perceived as weakness in Japan's foreign policy towards America and Britain.

Unfortunatly, that assesment proved wrong obviously and the Canadians went into combat without their vehicles which had only arrived in Manilla at the outbreak of violence. The Canadian military then gave the Americans permision to use the Canadian hardware for their own ill fated defence against Japan in the Philippines.

Just a little historical fact I felt like throwing out there.

	30-12-2004 15:30									#89
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Yeah, the defence of Hong Kong was one of the biggest Commonwealth cock-ups of the war. I've got no idea why the British even tried to defend the place, much less reinforced it with ill-trained and ill-equiped units in late 1941.

It's no wonder that Churchill was thrown out of office as soon as the voters could get their hands on him.

	30-12-2004 15:36									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Case Yeah, the defence of Hong Kong was one of the biggest Commonwealth cock-ups of the war. I've got no idea why the British even tried to defend the place, much less reinforced it with ill-trained and ill-equiped units in late 1941. It's no wonder that Churchill was thrown out of office as soon as the voters could get their hands on him.

What about Singapore? Second greatest defeat after Yorktown.

ANd Winston was kicked out because he wasn't sold on the Beveridge plan.