30-12-2004 00:28									#331
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quote: You think there won't be massive cuts to travel to that region for years to come, as well as lowered economic growth?

No. I expect the tourist areas to bounce back pretty quickly. This is a freak occurence (once in four or five generations). Personally, I wouldn't fear going there next week, if they could accomodate me. At a minimum, the Scandinavians have to go somewhere for the winter...

	30-12-2004 00:33									#332
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Thanks, LotM. Now, to put a price tag on my sympathy...

Seriously, though, every little bit helps, right?

-Arrian

	30-12-2004 00:38									#333
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quote: Originally posted by alva quote: with 14 already confirmed dead primarily in Thailand Well, on the bright side, the world has lost several pedophiles the last couple of days.

Is there any way we can keep douchebags like this and VJ off the forums?

	30-12-2004 00:46									#334
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quote: Originally posted by DanS This isn't even close to true. US business shut down for much of a week. There have been reductions in travel for several years since. Extra security costs are required going forward. Add it up and be amazed.

So you don't think this will have any effect on travelling?

A few blocks of razed buildings and some jumbo jets were the only lost property in 9/11. Here you have a whole cities eradicated on several continents. Business shutting down was just because idiots stopped buying things. Stock value is made up of thin air, and it was lost because people like you over-reacted.

Terrorism is a pathetic threat if you compare it to anything else. How many people was killed by terrorism, globally, in the last ten years? 10-20 000? Does it really deserve the attention it is getting? Airport security is really over-done and annoying but will not stop the professional terrorists. Why would they use knifes next time, now that the moment of surprise is lost forever?

Natural disasters, starvation, deceases and wars are the real killers, and it's there the efforts should be spent. If Americans care about their security, how come they live in California that could sink into the Pacific any day?

	30-12-2004 00:49									#335
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quote: Originally posted by alva quote: with 14 already confirmed dead primarily in Thailand Well, on the bright side, the world has lost several pedophiles the last couple of days.

Actually, the pedos are mostly in Pattaya, which is on the other coast.

	30-12-2004 00:49									#336
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Remember that I think comparing the two events is a fool's game. Apples and oranges. The only way in which they are similar is that people died unexpectedly in both instances and that both are expensive. We will gain no great insights by comparing and contrasting the two. Likewise, throwing the Iraq war into the mix as some have done in this thread doesn't illuminate anything at all. It's all part of a dumb parlour game.

Last edited by DanS on 30-12-2004 at 00:58

	30-12-2004 00:59									#337
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The debate started when I quoted an American who made the comparison. But yes, it is apples and oranges - 9/11 was a very minor trauma compared to this.

Anyway, I did not expect America to contribute at all, as very few Americans were among the victims. So every dollar is an extra bonus surprise.

Last edited by Chemical Ollie on 30-12-2004 at 01:10

	30-12-2004 01:04									#338
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Likewise, throwing the Iraq war into the mix as some have done in this thread doesn't illuminate anything at all. It's all part of a dumb parlour game.

I haven't mentioned the Iraq war in this thread, but I think it makes perfect sense if you are debating where dollars should be spent and where they should not be spent. You can choose to spend your money on killing people who did not invite you into their country, or you can spend your dollars to help people who are in desperate need of help. It's your choice.

	30-12-2004 01:05									#339
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quote: Originally posted by Chemical Ollie Anyway, I did not expect America to contribute at all...

America gives out more in total dollars in Aid each year then any other country in the world... a pretty stupid troll on your part

	30-12-2004 01:10									#340
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quote: Originally posted by Chemical Ollie I haven't mentioned the Iraq war in this thread, but I think it makes perfect sense if you are debating where dollars should be spent and where they should not be spent. You can choose to spend your money on killing people who did not invite you into their country,

Which would then lead to the question of whether most Iraqis did or did not want us to invade, questions about shiites vs sunnis, the upcoming elections, etc. All of which would detract from the discussion of the victims of the Tsunami, and would thus be threadjack of the most vile kind. A vegetarian could suggest that we can spend our money on meat, killing defenseless animals and poisoning our bodies, or giving to the victims of the Tsunamis. Ditto wrt to money spent on churches, video games, and whatever else your pet peeve is. All would be trollish threadjacks, all would be attempts to use this terrible tragedy to score political points on unrelated issues.

	30-12-2004 01:15									#341
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark Which would then lead to the question of whether most Iraqis did or did not want us to invade, questions about shiites vs sunnis, the upcoming elections, etc. All of which would detract from the discussion of the victims of the Tsunami, and would thus be threadjack of the most vile kind. A vegetarian could suggest that we can spend our money on meat, killing defenseless animals and poisoning our bodies, or giving to the victims of the Tsunamis. Ditto wrt to money spent on churches, video games, and whatever else your pet peeve is. All would be trollish threadjacks, all would be attempts to use this terrible tragedy to score political points on unrelated issues.

I'm sure there will be no debate about whether the Tsunami victims would want your help. And there will be no debate on killing defenseless animals to feed them.

	30-12-2004 01:22									#342
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Again, this is just sophistry. I'm sure the money you spend on going to the movies or other entertainment would be better spent on disaster relief for these tsunami victims as well. Or Alexander Horse's SUV. Or India's military spending. You could go on an on.

	30-12-2004 01:24									#343
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quote: Originally posted by Chemical Ollie I'm sure there will be no debate about whether the Tsunami victims would want your help. And there will be no debate on killing defenseless animals to feed them.

i meant killing defenseless animals to feed YOURSELF, not the tsunami victims. Dont eat that steak, save the money and give it to the victims. Cause meat is murder, doncha know.

	30-12-2004 01:28									#344
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quote: Probably since Tsunami is a Japanese word?

Japanese words only count in the Pacific?

	30-12-2004 01:30									#345
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quote: Dont eat that steak, save the money and give it to the victims.

I will do both. I can afford it, because I did not spend 1000 times more on killing people who did't deserve it, while angering my friends in the process.

Good night

	30-12-2004 01:32									#346
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quote: Originally posted by Chemical Ollie quote: Dont eat that steak, save the money and give it to the victims. I will do both. I can afford it,

Then give twice as much.

	30-12-2004 01:34									#347
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quote: I will do both.

And I will do all three. I can afford it.

	30-12-2004 01:52									#348
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I'll eat some babies too, Chemical Ollie. It's cheap here in Amerika, you know.

I went with a donation to the Red Cross (International Response). And my company will match it, which is always nice.

-Arrian

	30-12-2004 01:59									#349
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian I'll eat some babies too, Chemical Ollie. It's cheap here in Amerika, you know. I went with a donation to the Red Cross (International Response). And my company will match it, which is always nice. -Arrian

Good for you.

	30-12-2004 02:08									#350
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I wouldn't have mentioned it, except for CO's irritating post.

-Arrian

	30-12-2004 02:12									#351
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian I wouldn't have mentioned it, except for CO's irritating post. -Arrian

I was not being sarcastic. I really meant it. I will need to consult with QOTM. We'll probably give through the American Jewish World Service, but thats not settled.

	30-12-2004 02:19									#352
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Now that I've figured out the employee donation match thingy at work, I'm more inclined to give... it's nice to know that if I give $50, it's actually gonna be $100. I've gotta get my fiancee to start using it too. She gives from home, pledging to all sorts of organizations that MUST be on the company's approved list, but never AFAIK makes the company match them.

-Arrian

	30-12-2004 02:24									#353
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quote: Originally posted by DanS This isn't even close to true. US business shut down for much of a week. There have been reductions in travel for several years since. Extra security costs are required going forward. Add it up and be amazed.

I was referring strictly to property damage, which is the only indicator we have so far from the Indian Ocean earthquake, and is true. It's far too early to imagine what the ultimate economic cost of the disaster we be, since it happened, oh, 3 days ago. And even there it's a pretty difficult task to assume what is a direct result of the disaster and what may have just be coincidental to it.

The fact that the tsunamis have wiped out 100,000+ people alone is enough to make the scale of the tragedy dwarf anything else I've seen in my lifetime. This is poised to be over 4 times worse in magnitude than the Bam quake in terms of the death toll. This catastrophe has left a mark on the region which will be felt for generations.

	30-12-2004 02:28									#354
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Yep, "loss of use" property damage (from an insurance perspective, loss of use falls under the PD definition) is something that you figure out later on.

But... whatever. 100,000 people.

-Arrian

	30-12-2004 02:44									#355
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Interesting story:

quote: YALA NATIONAL PARK, Sri Lanka - Wildlife officials in Sri Lanka expressed surprise Wednesday that they found no evidence of large-scale animal deaths from the weekend's massive tsunami — indicating that animals may have sensed the wave coming and fled to higher ground. An Associated Press photographer who flew over Sri Lanka's Yala National Park in an air force helicopter saw abundant wildlife, including elephants, buffalo, deer, and not a single animal corpse. Floodwaters from the tsunami swept into the park, uprooting trees and toppling cars onto their roofs — one red car even ended up on top of a huge tree — but the animals apparently were not harmed and may have sought out high ground, said Gehan de Silva Wijeyeratne, whose Jetwing Eco Holidays ran a hotel in the park. "This is very interesting. I am finding bodies of humans, but I have yet to see a dead animal," said Wijeyeratne, whose hotel in the park was totally destroyed in Sunday's tidal surge. "Maybe what we think is true, that animals have a sixth sense," Wijeyeratne said. Yala, Sri Lanka's largest wildlife reserve, is home to 200 Asian Elephants, crocodile, wild boar, water buffalo and gray langur monkeys. The park also has Asia's highest concentration of leopards. The Yala reserve covers an area of 391 square miles, but only 56 square miles are open to tourists. The human death toll in Sri Lanka surpassed 21,000. Forty foreigners were among 200 people in Yala who were killed.

	30-12-2004 02:46									#356
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A friend of mine was in holiday in Thailand; luckily he's safe.

I saw a picture in the Times today of half a dozen dead animals washed up on a beach. Then I looked closer and saw that they were humans, western tourists in swimming costumes, stiff and discoloured by death.

Then on the BBC today I saw a reporter walking down a four lane street in a large town in Indonesia, debris and dead bodies piled everywhere.

Horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible.

	30-12-2004 02:58									#357
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov I was referring strictly to property damage, which is the only indicator we have so far from the Indian Ocean earthquake, and is true. It's far too early to imagine what the ultimate economic cost of the disaster we be, since it happened, oh, 3 days ago. And even there it's a pretty difficult task to assume what is a direct result of the disaster and what may have just be coincidental to it. The fact that the tsunamis have wiped out 100,000+ people alone is enough to make the scale of the tragedy dwarf anything else I've seen in my lifetime. This is poised to be over 4 times worse in magnitude than the Bam quake in terms of the death toll. This catastrophe has left a mark on the region which will be felt for generations.

Well, we do have the Rwandan Genocide (1 million), the Sudan and Congo wars (minimum 2 million for each) in the last 11 years.

	30-12-2004 03:04									#358
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quote: Originally posted by alva quote: with 14 already confirmed dead primarily in Thailand Well, on the bright side, the world has lost several pedophiles the last couple of days.

Nah, there werent many Belgian casualities. I guess you dont have to travel to Thailand. Hows your dungeon btw?

	30-12-2004 03:09									#359
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Regarding the animals.

I wonder what would happen if humans learned to use their sixth sense. I am sure it is there. It is just buried very deep by all this constant conditioning.

	30-12-2004 03:10									#360
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quote: Well, we do have the Rwandan Genocide (1 million), the Sudan and Congo wars (minimum 2 million for each) in the last 11 years.

I haven't seen it on the news, ergo it didn't happen.