28-01-2005 02:02									#181
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski Ming doesnt have to defend the smokers. The man actually believes in the right of all people whetehr you be a smoker or not i have the right to smoke as yuou have the right not to. He, i beleive is also trying to say that it doesnt matter whether u smoke or your gay both are choosing a high risk life style that has consequences. Hence why he says not all gays get aids just as not all smokers get cancer.

the smokers who don't get cancer get emphysima as Johhny Carson did.

	28-01-2005 02:02									#182
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident rah is even worse. Let's take a well known example. Jonny Carson. He died just a few days ago. Though his case is different because he's a millionaire, and paid for all his own treatments (though it is possible NBC health coverage paid for them). He did not die young. He lived to 79 years old!. Because of his private life, it's hard to say how long he has been treated for emphasyma. It could have been years.

smoking isnt the only reason you get emphsema its called genetics smoking only increases the chances.

	28-01-2005 02:03									#183
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how do youy explain c.o.p.d. I can give you examples not all lung diseases are caused by smoking there is abestoes you know

	28-01-2005 02:11									#184
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Of course there are other causes of cancer and lung diseases, but none are so f*cking obvious and easily preventable...

	28-01-2005 02:19									#185
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Smoking is only obvious cause of the public outcry. If i must be so bold hell the only cancer my father didnt die od=f was lung and his smoking had nothing to do with the ancer he did die of, Pancreatic and liver

	28-01-2005 02:20									#186
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident give it up Ming. normally you are sensible. But defending smokers is not sensible.

Actually, I'm defending the rights of smokers... I have stated early that I agree that smoking is bad for you.

However... smoking is a legal activitiy.
And the whole point of this thread is that a company is firing people because of statistics that prove smokers are higher health risks... and my point is, so are gays, fat people... women... if this story was about a company firing gays because of higher health risks costs, they would be jumping up and down and calling the people that voted that this was ok homophobes... and ranting and raving about discrimination... but since it's about smokers... they have no problem with it.

A bunch of hypocrits if you ask me. While I think gay sex is pretty disgusting, I defend their right to live their lives... yet here, gays are enjoying their discrimination against smokers... yep.... hypocrits.

Smokers are treated worse in this society then gays... and what's even worse... it seems the gays are the biggest offenders

	28-01-2005 02:22									#187
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If your told that drinking any amount of alcohol and that causes liver cancer would you not drink? If your told that having un protected sex causes for women cervical cancer would you stop that even if your married. or im not going to go into testicular or prostate cancer that nobody knows for sure what causes it

	28-01-2005 02:23									#188
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that's simply not true. Gays are treated far more harshly in our society than smokers. You don't see someone beaten to death because they smoke.

	28-01-2005 02:24									#189
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Yes, firing gays would be homophobic. Firing smokers is "smokophobic". Thing is, I'm fine with discrimination based on the later but not on the former.

I'm discriminating in the application of discrimination.

	28-01-2005 02:26									#190
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident that's simply not true. Gays are treated far more harshly in our society than smokers. You don't see someone beaten to death because they smoke.

That depends on what your definition of beaten to death is. It has happened where a person as been emotional beaten to death cause they smoke. And even physically attacked by non smokers so i dont know where you get your info but its not right. The fact that a gay was beaten just sells newspapers and a beaten smoker doesnt

	28-01-2005 02:28									#191
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emotional beaten to death Sounds like something a commie lefty would say.

tell that to Mathew Sheppard.

	28-01-2005 02:30									#192
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quote: Originally posted by Ming A bunch of hypocrits if you ask me. While I think gay sex is pretty disgusting, I defend their right to live their lives... yet here, gays are enjoying their discrimination against smokers... yep.... hypocrits.

I don't get why you don't get it.

Smoking --> a clear choice made by the person which, by its very nature, leads to much higher risks for very expensive treatments. Also harms people around them.
Homosexuality --> not a choice made at all by the person, which does NOT lead to higher risks for diseases requiring expensive treatment. Does not harm people around them.

They're only comparable if you have the intellectual capacity of a 7-year old, or someone who's just stubborn and didn't think very hard when they first made the comparison.

	28-01-2005 02:31									#193
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yeah, Ming still thinks homosexuality is a choice.

	28-01-2005 02:33									#194
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident emotional beaten to death Sounds like something a commie lefty would say. tell that to Mathew Sheppard.

First of all I have no F*cking clue as to what a commie lefty is. and second of all I had a friend that commited suicide because everytime he turned around people bi**** that he smoked and heres the real shocker was GAY. Thats what i meant by emotional beatings

	28-01-2005 02:34									#195
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski That depends on what your definition of beaten to death is. It has happened where a person as been emotional beaten to death cause they smoke. And even physically attacked by non smokers so i dont know where you get your info but its not right. The fact that a gay was beaten just sells newspapers and a beaten smoker doesnt

For your own dignity, please just stop.

Please tell me she is not comparing how hard it is to live life as a smoker to living life as a gay person.

What a complete joke.

You need to get perspective.

1) Smoking is your choice
2) Smoking is stupid

It's inconsiderate and harms people around the smoker.
For this reason, they *ARE* discriminated against. You pay more taxes (stupidly), you destroy your lungs (stupidly), and you refuse to quit (stupidly).

Smoking is a choice you made, and a choice you continue to make, and God damnit -- smokers deserve to be locked in their own air-tight smoking section at a coffee shop. Don't you dare cry about discrimination and how hard you guys have it, and then even compare it to what homosexuals have to go through -- it's downright insulting.

	28-01-2005 02:37									#196
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I don't get why you don't get it. Smoking --> a clear choice made by the person which, by its very nature, leads to much higher risks for very expensive treatments. Also harms people around them. Homosexuality --> not a choice made at all by the person, which does NOT lead to higher risks for diseases requiring expensive treatment. Does not harm people around them. They're only comparable if you have the intellectual capacity of a 7-year old, or someone who's just stubborn and didn't think very hard when they first made the comparison.

Explain then how aids and hiv was started I believe it was by gay men. Who i might add are the most affected by the disease and that have died from it

	28-01-2005 02:38									#197
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski Explain then how aids and hiv was started I believe it was by gay men. Who i might add are the most affected by the disease and that have died from it

Actually, women make up the majority of cases today.

As an excellent nurse, I'm sure you knew that.

	28-01-2005 02:43									#198
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quote: Originally posted by Asher For your own dignity, please just stop. Please tell me she is not comparing how hard it is to live life as a smoker to living life as a gay person. What a complete joke. You need to get perspective. 1) Smoking is your choice 2) Smoking is stupid It's inconsiderate and harms people around the smoker. For this reason, they *ARE* discriminated against. You pay more taxes (stupidly), you destroy your lungs (stupidly), and you refuse to quit (stupidly). Smoking is a choice you made, and a choice you continue to make, and God damnit -- smokers deserve to be locked in their own air-tight smoking section at a coffee shop. Don't you dare cry about discrimination and how hard you guys have it, and then even compare it to what homosexuals have to go through -- it's downright insulting.

im not crying bout discrimination for one. Its my choice i agree with you but i shouldnt be locked away for life for it either and if you have read what i said i have just as much respect for the non smokers i dont and try my best not to do it around them even if its ok for me to do so. As for the choice to be gay you shouldnt have to hide that either. Nobody and i mean nobady knows if this is the persons choice outright or born with this desire. And might i Mention the gays that get beat are very outspoken and obnoxious about it.

	28-01-2005 02:44									#199
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quote: And might i Mention the gays that get beat are very outspoken and obnoxious about it.

	28-01-2005 02:45									#200
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Actually, women make up the majority of cases today. As an excellent nurse, I'm sure you knew that.

May I remind you I didnt say the cases today I asked how it became rampant. And as an excellent nurse which I am (my Opinion) i know you dont have to be gay to have either of the two.

	28-01-2005 02:46									#201
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski May I remind you I didnt say the cases today I asked how it became rampant. And as an excellent nurse which I am (my Opinion) i know you dont have to be gay to have either of the two.

You said:

quote: Who i might add are the most affected by the disease and that have died from it

"are" is present tense.

	28-01-2005 02:49									#202
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski Explain then how aids and hiv was started I believe it was by gay men. Who i might add are the most affected by the disease and that have died from it

Wrong and wrong.

AIDS began in Africa, where it was a disease that infected chimpanzees that got transmuted to humans through the ingestion of monkey meat.

While AIDS has indeed had a huge impact on gays, it is not the group that has suffered the worst under it. That would be Africans. A full 25% of Africa is infected with HIV. Only about 1% of gays are.

In the U.S., infection rates of black and hispanic women have currently outpaced infection rates of gay men. I'll also add that one of the groups least impacted by AIDS is lesbians.

The bottom line is that AIDS and other health problems don't effect gays because of some intrinsic property of being gay. They hit gays with certain behaviors that are risky. Most gay men, in my experience, do not engage in such risky behavior. Certainly not at a level beyond their heterosexual counterparts.

Cancer, emphysema, heart disease, etc. hit smokers PRECISELY because they smoke. While its true those diseases can hit non-smokers, it is abundantly proven that being a smoker will very likely lead to such health problems. People who smoke regularly also suffer continual health problems on a more minor scale. Smokers get sick far more easily than nonsmokers, as the constant irritation of the esophogus by smoking renders it more vulnerable to infection and germ transmission. That alone can lead to a dramatic increase in healthcare costs.

Being a longtime smoker will, much more likely than not, lead to dramatic health problems. Research has shown this to be true, and that those people who happen to squeak through without contracting such problems are very much the exception, not the rule.

	28-01-2005 02:50									#203
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quote: Originally posted by Asher quote: And might i Mention the gays that get beat are very outspoken and obnoxious about it.

I dont know what that face is for but i will share this with you, my best friend is a lesibian and for that matter i stood up for her in her holy union in which case i wore a tux and all the trimmings so dont even go where your gonna say i dislike gays.

	28-01-2005 02:51									#204
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski And might i Mention the gays that get beat are very outspoken and obnoxious about it.

What? And you have some support for this?

Gays that get beaten often are just coming out of gay bars or clubs. How dare they, huh?

That's a horrible thing to say. You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

	28-01-2005 02:51									#205
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski I dont know what that face is for but i will share this with you, my best friend is a lesibian and for that matter i stood up for her in her holy union in which case i wore a tux and all the trimmings so dont even go where your gonna say i dislike gays.

How would you like it if I said most women who were raped dressed like sluts?

	28-01-2005 02:54									#206
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quote: Originally posted by Asher You said: quote: Who i might add are the most affected by the disease and that have died from it "are" is present tense.

.
Yes you are right are is a present tense In the hospitals i work at the most common infected and dying are gay males. My mistake.

	28-01-2005 02:57									#207
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quote: Originally posted by Asher How would you like it if I said most women who were raped dressed like sluts?

What do you mean how would I like it? Rape is not an act of sex, its an act of violence. Do you really think that those 80 year old women that have been raped where in their mini skirts and stilettos

	28-01-2005 02:59									#208
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski What do you mean how would I like it? Rape is not an act of sex, its an act of violence. Do you really think that those 80 year old women that have been raped where in their mini skirts and stilettos

So what you're saying is such a statement would show my complete ignorance about what I was talking about, right? Perhaps even being a bit offensive?

Maybe that was the point.

	28-01-2005 02:59									#209
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski What do you mean how would I like it? Rape is not an act of sex, its an act of violence. Do you really think that those 80 year old women that have been raped where in their mini skirts and stilettos

Let me just add i wouldnt smoke around you if i knew it bothered you even though i have no clue as to who you are i can offer that much respect. the same i give my non smoking mother when she is with us out in a smoking area

	28-01-2005 03:01									#210
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Rape has nothing to do with smoking or being gay.