28-01-2005 03:02									#211
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Being gay has nothing to do with smoking, which is our point.

	28-01-2005 03:02									#212
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski Rape has nothing to do with smoking or being gay.

Unless the raper was a lesbian punishing you for taking her last cigarette!

	28-01-2005 03:04									#213
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Rapist, Asher, rapist.

	28-01-2005 03:05									#214
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I'll take the rapist for $500 please, Alex.

"That's Therapist, Mr. Connery..."

	28-01-2005 03:11									#215
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Unless the raper was a lesbian punishing you for taking her last cigarette!

I know that isnt supposed to be funny but i cant help it. If the B**** wanted the last smoke hell id give it to her.
And asher i never said you were ignorant you just have an opinion that you believe in very deeply

	28-01-2005 03:22									#216
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not to be insulting or anything. But any argument that uses the term "I have a friend that" is one I completely disregard. . again, not insulting. I have used it in the past as well. It'll never sound truthful, not matter how much it is so.

	28-01-2005 03:51									#217
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I didnt say i have a friend i said my best friend and i have the pictures from her Holy union. Believe if you want Thats up to you. Whether anybody wants to face the facts or not discrimination happens everywhere i dont care if its why you smoke or ur sexualperferance or the fact taht you want to follow some oddball relegious leader. the fact is why should my life have to change because somebody doesnt agree with it( and I do mean legal things here)

	28-01-2005 04:10									#218
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I don't get why you don't get it. Smoking --> a clear choice made by the person which, by its very nature, leads to much higher risks for very expensive treatments. Also harms people around them. Homosexuality --> not a choice made at all by the person, which does NOT lead to higher risks for diseases requiring expensive treatment. Does not harm people around them. They're only comparable if you have the intellectual capacity of a 7-year old, or someone who's just stubborn and didn't think very hard when they first made the comparison.

Gee, I don't get why you don't get it...

Smoking --> statistics show that there is a higher health risk for smokers as a group

Homosexuality --> statistics show that there is a higher health risk for gays as a group

These are facts, pure and simple.

They're totally comparable, and to not see that, you must have the intellectual capacity of a 7-year old, or someone who's just stubborn and didn't think very hard when they first started making stupid comments.

This case is about a company discriminating against a "group" of people because of statistics on that group.
So things must be viewed as "groups"... in which case, there are many other groups, gays being one of them, that have been proven to be of higher health risk.



And again, I'm not defending smoking... but I'm defending the rights of smokers, just like I defend the rights of gays

	28-01-2005 05:05									#219
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So why don't you defend the rights of companies to fire employees who do not fall in line to company policy.

	28-01-2005 05:08									#220
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Cigarette, aka "a fag"... need I say more?

	28-01-2005 06:12									#221
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quote: Originally posted by Asher So why don't you defend the rights of companies to fire employees who do not fall in line to company policy.

I defend the rights of smokers not to be discriminated by companies, just as I do gays... I'm at least consistent... unlike some people around here who think discrimination is ok as long as it isn't against them.

	28-01-2005 06:19									#222
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quote: Originally posted by Ming I defend the rights of smokers not to be discriminated by companies, just as I do gays... I'm at least consistent... unlike some people around here who think discrimination is ok as long as it isn't against them.

Discrimination is okay, provided it's for logical reasons.

I would think people who do hollywood stunts for a living would have to pay more health insurance, just like smokers would have to pay more, and just like bad drivers need to pay more for car insurance.

It's a totally different ball game to discriminate on someone's identity like sexuality, because they're not based on someone's actions.

	28-01-2005 06:22									#223
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Sorry Asher... insurance rates are based on tables and statiistics... and guess what... gays as a group cost more for health reasons. A fact.

You've talked about how in your opinion, smoking is disgusting and that you would have to be a moron to smoke... funny, many people say the same thing about gays and you are offended when they do... Why should smokers react any different to your BS

	28-01-2005 06:25									#224
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I'm only going to say this one more time:

Smoking is a choice.
Homosexuality is not.

If you think homosexuality is a choice, you're a bisexual with the luxury of choosing.

Discriminating based on somebody's stupid choice is fundamentally different than discriminating based on something they have no control over.

	28-01-2005 06:30									#225
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Discriminating based on somebody's stupid choice is fundamentally different than discriminating based on something they have no control over.

It's still discrimination... when people call gays stupid, disgusting, morons, and many other equally bad names, you are the first to jump on your high horse and scream discrimination and call people homophobes... but when you do it against smokers... it's ok and fair.

Right... you're a hypocrit, pure and simple. You are all for discrimination unless it's against you... while that might seem right and fair to you... it isn't!

You can try to justify it all you want... but it's still discrimination.

	28-01-2005 07:02									#226
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Cigarette, aka "a fag"... need I say more?

so you're saying Brits are homos? makes sense.

	28-01-2005 07:04									#227
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quote: Originally posted by Ming It's still discrimination... when people call gays stupid, disgusting, morons, and many other equally bad names, you are the first to jump on your high horse and scream discrimination and call people homophobes... but when you do it against smokers... it's ok and fair. Right... you're a hypocrit, pure and simple. You are all for discrimination unless it's against you... while that might seem right and fair to you... it isn't! You can try to justify it all you want... but it's still discrimination.

So is the drinking age.

So is car insurance.

Discrimination is commonplace...and not always unwarranted.

	28-01-2005 07:30									#228
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But the kind of discrimination you show is just ugly... you insult and try to degrade... and when it's done against gays, you are the first to call foul.

Your rationalizations are weak, and just lame excuses. Your comments against smokers are as bad as stuff you whine about when people post similar things against gays... I would have expected more from somebody who has probably experienced the darkness of discrimination... I would never have expected somebody who has experienced it would then turn around and do the same thing to another group of people, and say it's OK because it's "different"...

	28-01-2005 07:35									#229
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quote: Originally posted by Ming But the kind of discrimination you show is just ugly... you insult and try to degrade... and when it's done against gays, you are the first to call foul.

Because:
1) Smoking is a stupid choice that costs everyone money, not just the smoker (this is especially true in Canada with public healthcare)
2) Sexuality is not a choice

I feel like I'm repeating myself here.

You don't seem to comprehend the difference between a blatantly stupid choice and someone's sexual identity.

	28-01-2005 07:41									#230
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Justify all you want... I remember reading justification from religious groups why gays should be discriminated against... they believed their reasons were just and it was different too... it doesn't make it right.

Lets Sum this up in a nut shell...

Ming - Christian - believes gay sex is disgusting... would never consider it personally... supports gay rights because it's the fair thing to do. Gays should have equal rights. Posts support for the cause when faced with anti gay crap... Does not believe in discriminating against groups of people.

Ashier - Gay - believes smoking is disgusting, would never consider it personally... posts insulting crap against smokers... feels justified because it's "different"
Feels it's OK to discriminate against smokers.

I'll let poster make their own call based on the truth

	28-01-2005 07:49									#231
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Justify all you want... I remember reading justification from religious groups why gays should be discriminated against... they believed their reasons were just and it was different too... it doesn't make it right. Lets Sum this up in a nut shell... Ming - Christian - believes gay sex is disgusting... would never consider it personally... supports gay rights because it's the fair thing to do. Gays should have equal rights. Posts support for the cause when faced with anti gay crap... Does not believe in discriminating against groups of people. Ashier - Gay - believes smoking is disgusting, would never consider it personally... posts insulting crap against smokers... feels justified because it's "different" Feels it's OK to discriminate against smokers. I'll let poster make their own call based on the truth

I could not have said that better my self.

	28-01-2005 07:53									#232
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Discrimination is okay, provided it's for logical reasons. I would think people who do hollywood stunts for a living would have to pay more health insurance, just like smokers would have to pay more, and just like bad drivers need to pay more for car insurance. It's a totally different ball game to discriminate on someone's identity like sexuality, because they're not based on someone's actions.

Ummmm, being a smoker is part of my identity. Ask any ex-smoker, they will still call themselves smokers. They always want that next cigarette.

ACK!

	28-01-2005 07:53									#233
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Ashier - Gay - believes smoking is disgusting, would never consider it personally... posts insulting crap against smokers... feels justified because it's "different" Feels it's OK to discriminate against smokers.

Smokers make a personal choice that affects everyone around them, either with second-hand smoke or with added health care costs. It makes no sense to smoke, period.

I also discriminate against people who park their cars on a train track and kill 10 people and injure 200 -- something I also find incredibly stupid.

You just draw the line differently. I have a very low tolerance for smokers, probably because I'm from a younger generation.

You have to be so f*cking stupid to start smoking at my age. There really is no possible excuse. Peroid.

	28-01-2005 07:55									#234
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And having sex with men is still a choice. For that matter, having sex with women is a choice.

ACK!

	28-01-2005 07:55									#235
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Ummmm, being a smoker is part of my identity. Ask any ex-smoker, they will still call themselves smokers. They always want that next cigarette. ACK!

It's a self-imposed identity, one that was a choice you made to cut years off your life.

It'll be fun to explain to your kids/grandkids why you got lung cancer, won't it? They'll have so much respect for you.

	28-01-2005 07:56									#236
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski And having sex with men is still a choice. ACK!

Fair enough, but people who identify as gay don't have sex with men all the time.

In fact, I know a lot of gay men who've never had sex...

I know others who never want to (they are admittedly weird)...

It's one thing to discriminate against sexual practice, it's another to discriminate against sexual orientation.

	28-01-2005 07:58									#237
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quote: Originally posted by Asher It's a self-imposed identity, one that was a choice you made to cut years off your life. It'll be fun to explain to your kids/grandkids why you got lung cancer, won't it? They'll have so much respect for you.

Sure they do, and for your information when children ask me why I smoke I tell them "I'm stupid."

If you think I smoke for respect, you're a moron.

ACK!

	28-01-2005 07:59									#238
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski And having sex with men is still a choice. For that matter, having sex with women is a choice. ACK!

the actual act is a choice, but sexuality is not.

	28-01-2005 07:59									#239
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Sure they do, and for your information when children ask me why I smoke I tell them "I'm stupid." If you think I smoke for respect, you're a moron. ACK!

My point wasn't that you smoke for respect, but whenever you hear of somebody getting lung cancer after being a smoker decades after we were told just how bad it was, you start to wonder just how smart they really were.

It's a terrible way to leave a lasting impression. You die looking like an idiot.

	28-01-2005 08:01									#240
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I'm sure when you tell your grand kids about how you insulted and discriminated against people... they will have oh SOOOOOO much respect for you