10-02-2005 15:52									#361
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Oh. I am convinced. hehe.

	10-02-2005 15:55									#362
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Now, do you have anything to actually say that you can back up without recourse to calling people 'cretins'?

	10-02-2005 15:59									#363
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Oh because that is such a harsh insult. I have nothing further to say until you actually make a proper reply without being condescending...

	10-02-2005 16:01									#364
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I'll make a proper reply when you say something, anything, worth replying to, properly.

	10-02-2005 17:07									#365
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Guys please, insult the poster, don't debate the issue.

	10-02-2005 17:48									#366
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No, it's 'discuss the poster, not the issue,' you needle-headed tubeworm!

	10-02-2005 17:48									#367
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber Obviously not since tou can't meet my challenge-- what's the problem ? all my posts are still there-- just reference the one where I say what you indicate I am particulary interested to see indications that I am a -- what was it-- " a closet racist" Funny that you can call me a bigot, stupid and a racist , I say nothing personal except that you are a liar or lack reading skills and yet you are the one acting all offended. Kidaverse indeed !!!

You think just like a racist. You said that communists were lazy. Than you said that not all communists are lazy, but 99% of them were. That's the same kind of **** racists say. And why wouldn't you be a closet racist. There are plenty of them around. People like you like to shoot your mouth off when you think it is acceptable.

	10-02-2005 18:03									#368
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I'll make a proper reply when you say something, anything, worth replying to, properly.

	10-02-2005 18:05									#369
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I think some people need to chilll...

	10-02-2005 18:09									#370
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker I spend more than 35 hours a week in school.

I spend around 80 hours a week working, between uni and AIESEC, but that's because I want to. Wanting to work a lot should be allowed, being forced to shouldn't be.

You should be able to work 35 hours a week and get by just fine, from school through to work. I would be fine with 35 hours of school a week, which is about what I do, I just do it over 2 days

	10-02-2005 18:16									#371
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Look around you! If you think capitalism is so lovely and works so well, go to some African states and see what it has done to them.

I would say that the main reason Africa is in such a state is due to a lack of capitalism and globalization not too much of it.

What prevails in Africa is much more like the corruption-ridden society the west had three to five centuries ago, so it's not too suprising their incomes are so low (although they ceratinly beat what the west had then)

	10-02-2005 18:22									#372
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el freako,

I disagree. It's all about distribution of resources. Because of capitalism Africa does not get enough resources. How is more capitalism and more globalization going to change that, and what exactly do you mean by more of those two things?

	10-02-2005 18:24									#373
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Wow! Bahrain! Where else have you been? Are you going to any good ports?

Singapore was a great place to visit. I'm sure you've seen my Tsunami thread.

Bahrain sucks. Here's something I put up on SDN:


In Bahrain (as indicated in my psuedo-blog for Happy Fun Cruise 04-05) at the moment. Finally got to go out on the town today. As I left I asked the Gate sentry for advice.

Sentry: Yeah, the Taxi is going to try to charge you for Five dinars (roughly $15). Don't let him do it. It should be more like 3 or 4 BD.

Sure enough, he tried to charge us 5 BD. We got him down to 4. Went over to Souq shopping area (not bad) and then to the Seef Mall.

Seef Mall is a Western style mall that's upscale. While walking around I noticed most of the Gringos there were British Expats. It was a big Mall.

A big, upscale mall that had no substance to it whatsoever. Seriously. There was one, count 'em, electronics store that was halfway decent. And it was Radioshack.

Now, in Singapore all the mall-like structures I would describe as "Ghetto" (sorry Singaporeans). But, they had substance. I enjoyed walking around them and window shopping. Even found a Gamer's shop in one of them. At Seef mall I spent and hour and a half walking aroound wondering why I spent 2 BD for us to come here.

Basically, I had a new understanding for the "dumbasses" that spend Bahrain port visits on base drinking...there simply isn't as much to do.

So, we decided to head on back, and there are several taxis in the parking lot. The first guys says "American Naval base?"

Me: Yep.

Driver: I ahve a good deal for you, my friends. Only 10 BD!

Me and IT3: (basically, $30 bucks for less than five miles)

We walk away.

Driver: Wait Wait! 8 BD!

IT3: We paid 4 bd to get here, we won't go above that.

Driver: But that was from there to here, not from here to there!

Me: That's the exact same distance!

So we got another Driver.

Bahrain sucks.

	10-02-2005 19:16									#374
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious You think just like a racist. You said that communists were lazy. Than you said that not all communists are lazy, but 99% of them were. That's the same kind of **** racists say. And why wouldn't you be a closet racist. There are plenty of them around. People like you like to shoot your mouth off when you think it is acceptable.

The quote please-- show me the quote

You continue to tell me what I said -- back it up-- show the quote

You can't so stop twisting my words.
The fact that I say "not purple" doesn't mean I said or meant "green".

I repeat my comment that you are either deliberately lying here or suffer from serious reading comprehension problems

	10-02-2005 19:17									#375
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I'm not debating you Flubber.

	10-02-2005 19:24									#376
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious I'm not debating you Flubber.

A debate-- you make unfounded assertions and are unwilling to back them up

Why not let's do something just as silly like this

hey kid -- how often do you beat your wife??

Oh and kid -- I'm still smiling--- must be this wonderful capitalist society where guess what, I am going to inprove my economic condition yet again today

	10-02-2005 19:25									#377
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quote: Originally posted by Lonestar Bahrain sucks.

I went to Hawaii, PI (several parts), Singapore, Hong Kong, Sasebo(sp) Japan, SK, Pataya Beach Thia (the best), Mombasa Kenya, and Diego Garcia. I actually like Diego Garcia, but we only got like 4 hours there.

	10-02-2005 20:33									#378
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious I disagree. It's all about distribution of resources. Because of capitalism Africa does not get enough resources.

If by resources you mean natural resources then they provide little to help a country develop - indeed they usually hinder a countries development by providing easy rent-seeking opportunities that usually end up corrupting it's polity, they can also discouraging balanced development.

The most important resources are people, knowledge and capital - and capital is the most important of these as it is the catalyst that can make the other two perform well.
Africa does not get enough capital because it's markets are mired by corruption and either too much government interference (taxing farmers to subsidise city-dwellers) or too little (as in anarchies like Somalia)

quote: Originally posted by Kidicious How is more capitalism and more globalization going to change that, and what exactly do you mean by more of those two things?

Freer markets in the west for africa's agricultural produce would help, but the easiest way to help people in the third world is to enable them to migrate to the west where their labour can produce far more wealth.
Unfortunately that seems politically impossible as for most people in the rich west their citizenship is the most valuable 'asset' they own - it enables them to earn far more than they would get if they had to sell their labour in a free international market, it is not surprising that the mass movement of people that should be happening today has been restricted by the politics of the western nations, and that such restrictions are highly popular in the west.

Freer trade would also help africa (and the rest of the world, rich or poor, as well) but I fear we have already passed the peak of trade liberalization and are due another backlash against it like there was in 1900-1940 (but, please God, let the fallout from it be less awfull).


For globalization to work properly you need freedom of movement of capital, trade and labour.

In international finance, globalization is a bit more advanced now than it was before the first world war.
In trade we are around as integrated as we were then.
In migration we are massively less integrated today.

Globalization has a long way to go even to equal the levels it reached a century ago, but those nations that have embraced it seem to have done well out of it - unfortunately few nations in africa have embraced it, to their loss and ours.

	10-02-2005 20:35									#379
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kidicious

one quote??

	10-02-2005 20:37									#380
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Why do you even bother?

	10-02-2005 20:41									#381
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quote: Originally posted by Saras Why do you even bother?

I generally enjoy debating and I am stubborn beyond all reason

	10-02-2005 20:53									#382
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quote: Originally posted by Lonestar Driver: I ahve a good deal for you, my friends. Only 10 BD! Me and IT3: (basically, $30 bucks for less than five miles) We walk away. Driver: Wait Wait! 8 BD! IT3: We paid 4 bd to get here, we won't go above that. Driver: But that was from there to here, not from here to there! Me: That's the exact same distance! So we got another Driver. Bahrain sucks.

Reminds me of the old joke about New Jersey. Its free to get in but you have to pay to get out (and believe me you want to get out).

	10-02-2005 22:33									#383
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Discuss the topic and not the posters!

	11-02-2005 01:03									#384
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The joke wasn't on posters. It was spread by word of mouth.

	11-02-2005 01:05									#385
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quote: Originally posted by el freako The most important resources are people, knowledge and capital - and capital is the most important of these as it is the catalyst that can make the other two perform well. Africa does not get enough capital because it's markets are mired by corruption and either too much government interference (taxing farmers to subsidise city-dwellers) or too little (as in anarchies like Somalia)

A professor of mine said that the problem with places as desperate as Africa is that any money that they get is going to serve immediate needs at the cost of investment in infrastructure. For example if you give them corn seed to grow new crops they are going to use it to feed the people. I know there is a lot of corruption and that is why investment there is lacking, but it's also true that they need more investment than any where else to get any return on their investment. The corruption is likely to remain, but they the amount of capital that would go to Africa even if there weren't corruption wouldn't be enough.

	11-02-2005 01:09									#386
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quote: Originally posted by Saras Why do you even bother?

The best question so far in this thread.

	11-02-2005 01:14									#387
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious A professor of mine said that the problem with places as desperate as Africa is that any money that they get is going to serve immediate needs at the cost of investment in infrastructure.

That's not true on a national level. Read the book "The Africans" to understand how terriblely intrusive government policies, communist/socialist ideologies, nationalism, and just plan kleptocracy has created the shithole which is modern Africa. It has little or nothing to do with capitalism and almost everything to do with corruption, bad government, and repressive regimes.

Before you say your staqndard line may I point out that nearly all of those regimes were home grown and your boogy man the west did not put them there nor do they keep them there. Learn about Africa then pontificate about what its problems are and what the solutions are because right now you're looking very bad in this thread.

	11-02-2005 02:22									#388
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I'm saying there are two problems. You aren't helping by saying that there aren't two, because of the one. Does that make sense?

	11-02-2005 02:24									#389
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if you have to ask, the answer is no

	11-02-2005 02:35									#390
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The assumption is that if there were no corruption in Africa that it would be just like China, when Africa is lacking in infrastructure and education, and it's people are living in poverty. China is quite different.