06-04-2005 16:09									#391
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I was disappointed by the imbalance towards fighting characters (not just melee, but most of them are) in the list of munchkin builds, and suggest that we consider some way of producing w00tly mage/sorceror/druid builds!

I'll, er, just need some time to play around with this so won't have anything of my own until next Monday.

	06-04-2005 22:33									#392
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

How about the fallen caster paladin? Paladin 5, Blackguard 4, fill up on Sorc. Take Divine Shield and Divine Might, make sure to fall to the darkside, get your 4 attacks a round, max out CHA and get to add your CHA bonus to your saves TWICE. Nice

-Jam

	06-04-2005 22:37									#393
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Considering that a) in-game item creation, essentially the domain of arcane casters, is really nonexistent, and b) none of the prestige classes really enhance the spellcasting abilities of spellcasters as their primary focus (Pale Master allows Wiz/PMs to get extra spell slots, but it's mainly a melee enhancer, and Dragon Disciple doesn't offer much for spellcasting other than the +Int and +Cha, while the fighter classes get Blackguard, Weapon Master, Divine Champion, Dwarven Defender, et al; there's no Archmage, Red Wizard of Thay, or Hathran), I really don't consider the preponderance of melee munchkins all that surprising. And even the caster munchkin builds (from the Bioware site, the Undead Lord and Dragon Kin are good examples) are themselves big on melee. The first two things I mentioned are the main reason why high-level spellcasters in PnP so dramatically outclass high-level melee fighters, IMHO.

I've got a long weekend ahead, so I'll see what I can come up with. I've never really seriously played Druids before, so I'll start with that: a spellcasting-focused Druid build. Actually, if I were to focus on melee, this'd be easy; take four fighter levels pre-epic, then beeline to Dragon Shape (which doesn't require Shifter levels, incidentally, just the 30 Wisdom), stopping to get EWS (Unarmed Strike) along the way. Together with an absolute TON of buffing spells, that'd be one nice tank. Not as strong as the Dragon Kin, perhaps, but strong nonetheless. But I gather that's not what you're after...

	06-04-2005 22:48									#394
	Increase Your PM Length

You'd take 1 monk level too, of course?

	07-04-2005 00:33									#395
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Jamski You'd take 1 monk level too, of course?

Naturally. +18 AC and the increased move rate is too good to pass up.

	07-04-2005 02:35									#396
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by duke o' york I was disappointed by the imbalance towards fighting characters (not just melee, but most of them are) in the list of munchkin builds, and suggest that we consider some way of producing w00tly mage/sorceror/druid builds! I'll, er, just need some time to play around with this so won't have anything of my own until next Monday.

There are plenty of nice caster builds. The exalted sorceress (almost pure caster except for some abuse to get armour and shield and some nice skills) I've played to 40 and she rocks. The Undead Lord is an awesome strong melee caster, and the rogue/wizard Kensai build is also very nice.

Kinda echoes some of Vlad's point but when you are maxing a caster build you need to decide what you want from the char except level 9 spells. Mostly this means adding in some melee capability, as you don't get a great deal from higher levels, with the possible exception of the straightish sorc build. Straight (ish) sorc works better than straight wizard, but even then to really munchkin it you need to take the feats that enable you to cast level 9 spells in full plate with a big shield.

	07-04-2005 12:53									#397
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Can one of you folks help me with a work around? I'm in chapter 3 and I spoke with the Elk Barbarian leader who asked me to speak to the Lord's Alliance Commander about diseased blankets. The problem is when I get to the Fort and speak to the commander he keeps asking me to destroy the catapults. The catapults have been destroyed for the longest time. I also have the siege leader's head but the commander doesn't seem to want that like the walk through says he should.

I've encountered this type of malfunction before. In chapter 2 I got the baby and the gnome's ring in Luskan but neither the mother nor the gnome would accept the items like the walk through said. I think it's a problem with the programing of the game where it just won't recognize you've completed a task even though you already have. Can someone please help me figure out a work around?

	07-04-2005 15:00									#398
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

"AI Update Time Over Flow." Does that phrase mean anything to anyone? I periodically get that message when I play it pops up in the message box in a yellow font. I'm thinking it has something to do with the reason I'm having trouble with the AI. I'm not sure though.

	07-04-2005 15:05									#399
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Also I'm starting to get bored of the OC and I'm thinking about starting a game of HotU. Does anyone have any suggestions on a good character type to play? In the OC I played a Ranger/Mage/Thief and I found him to be nearly perfect but I'm thinking I'd like to play something new maybe a female Paladin or something. I'd like to try out one of the new prestige classes like the Red Dragon Kin but I'm not sure. Does anyone have a suggestion of which classes would be best and which skills/feats would be the most useful? I always like to hear advice from people who have played the game before.

	07-04-2005 16:08									#400
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Do both of your ideas for HotU with the nifty build Jamski did for me early in the last NWN thread!

Have you actually destroyed the catapults, rather than just the enemies guarding them? You have to go to "Use" with the right mouse button (or whatever fancy shortcut key Jamski uses ), rather than using your weapon against the catapults.

	07-04-2005 16:53									#401
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Yeah, the catapults are toast. I first killed their crew then I clicked on them and they exploded. I've checked all over the map and I'm sure I got them all though I did this before I spoke to the commander so maybe that has something to do with it. By the time I did speak with the commander the catapults were distroyed and I had the enemy leader's head.

	07-04-2005 17:25									#402
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I couldn't find Jamski's post in the NWN reloaded thread so I guess I'm just going to have to wing it. The walk through of HotU says the only henchman you can use in all three chapters is some sort of lizard guy from SoU (own it but haven't played it) and that he is a Bard/Red Dragon Kin so I guess my character shouldn't be one of those. I'm thinking a lady Paladin/Sorcerer since they both use Charisma as their major attribute but my problem is deciding what the third class and race should be. I'm leaning towards a half elf since HotU will mostly take place underground though the human's extra skill points would likely come in handy.

It seems like there are a lot of new feats in HotU which I'm not familiar with (especially since I never played 3rd edition before) and I'm wondering which skills/feats would be best. Anyone have any suggestions?

	07-04-2005 20:14									#403
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

How do you folks pick locks and disarm traps if you aren't a thief? It seems like the little Kobald bard doesn't disarm traps or open locks (Did that change in 3rd edition because in 2nd edition I thought bards could?) and all he ever does is play music all the time.

	07-04-2005 20:41									#404
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Just bash them with your weapons. I also expected bards to be able to pick locks.

In 1st Edition, you had to be a thief and a fighter before you became a bard.

ACK!

	07-04-2005 20:45									#405
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Yeah, I remember 1st edition and I still have the books lying around in the attic some where. Bashing works for most chests but what about traps?

	07-04-2005 20:54									#406
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Most traps won't kill you.

ACK!

	07-04-2005 21:33									#407
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Well the Jamski Paladin/Sorc/RDD build is definitely here somewhere, but if you're not going to start until Sunday then I have it on my laptop and can post it this weekend when I get home.

	07-04-2005 23:04									#408
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

For traps you can cast find traps, summon a familiar, disarm the trap, or if a fighter just take the hit or take an appropriate henchman. Everyone has a solution.

	08-04-2005 00:23									#409
	Remove this text

My barb can disarm traps, its great. And none of that hanging round waiting for your thief to disarm it either! I hate servers with save or die traps anyway, but is it the only way to stop your average tank?

	08-04-2005 02:10									#410
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I decided to go with spending the skill points and giving my female Pal/Scor/RDD remove traps and pick locks. Undermountain is very challenging for a 5/5/5 level character.

	08-04-2005 03:25									#411
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: "AI Update Time Over Flow." Does that phrase mean anything to anyone? I periodically get that message when I play it pops up in the message box in a yellow font. I'm thinking it has something to do with the reason I'm having trouble with the AI. I'm not sure though.

You only get this message in debug mode. It means the AI has so many things to do that round (6 seconds) that it has to skip some to keep the game running. Solution - faster processor or less AI activities at once. Basically don't worry about it though - normally it's just one script that has got stuck in a loop or something and is timing out every round, something with a While(GetNearestObject)==isValid or something idiotic like that

quote: Yeah, I remember 1st edition and I still have the books lying around in the attic some where. Bashing works for most chests but what about traps?

I just walk around traps (I tend to play elves so I spot them) and shoot trapped chests with the abundance of magical arrows the game provides.

quote: It seems like there are a lot of new feats in HotU which I'm not familiar with (especially since I never played 3rd edition before) and I'm wondering which skills/feats would be best. Anyone have any suggestions?

All of the feats are good except the object crafting ones and the skill bonus ones. They are of dubious value, except there is perhaps a case for Skill Focus Parry

-Jam

	08-04-2005 03:45									#412
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Jamski, thanks for the tip about the time overflow error. I'll make sure I turn debug mode off to help avoid that though with 1GB of RAM and a 2.1 processor I didn't think I'd need more power.

I've settled on a female Paladin/Sorcerer/Red Dragon Decendent and I know I'm only going to be taking the RDD to level 10 but I'm still up in the air over how far to take the Paladin. I believe 8th level is where you get 3rd level clerical spells and a few more Paladin abilities (not sure with 3rd edition though) so I'm debating upon stopping the Paladin advancement there. That would give me a max of 22 levels in Sorcerer though I'm sure it will be a whle before I get that far.

Last edited by Oerdin on 08-04-2005 at 09:45

	08-04-2005 04:25									#413
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Jamski, thanks for the type about the time overflow error. I'll make sure I turn debug mode off to help avoid that though with 1GB of RAM and a 2.1 processor I didn't think I'd need more power.

I wouldn't worry about it - I get AI overflows all the time from Bioware scripts. Some of the default heartbeat stuff for monsters and objects have "while" statements that basically cause infinite loops (that the game then "kills" at the end of each round when the AI overflows, thank god)

-Jam

	08-04-2005 11:50									#414
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I'm still working on my munchkin build and I've found the Bioware epic Builds Guild to be full of useful information. I think I will go with an 8/22/10 Paladin/Sorcerer/RDD as my final goal though I need to figure out the order to gain which level so that my character can survive on her way up in levels. I'm thinking an Elf character would be best since they have all those nifty Elf abilities which will come in handy in the underdark though I'm still not sure which feats or skills to concentrate on.

With a weak henchman I'm going to need strong fighting ability to go along with my spellcasting so I'm leaning towards a duel weapon welder (maybe Katana since it is 1D10 instead of 1D8) but that looks like it will eat up a lot of feats. I'll have to use debug mode and mess around tonight to see what works and what doesn't. Anyone have any suggestions for must not miss feats?

	08-04-2005 13:58									#415
	Increase Your PM Length

or you can just play the game and find out what works best . HOTU can be a little difficult, but I'd think most builds can do it.

	08-04-2005 15:29									#416
	Get a bigger avatar today!

There's an item in both HotU and SoU that gives you free find traps (removes them as well). But they are not until the 2nd chapters.

	08-04-2005 16:14									#417
	Support Apolyton

The magnifying glass whatsit? Yeah, but you can only use it three times a day. I just get my rogue henchmen to do it. If I wanted to roleplay a rogue, then find traps wouldn't be high on the list of desired skills - it's only useful because you're in a computer game.

Can someone please post exactly whay tou have to type in to get the debug mode and level your characters up illegally? I fancy playing about with some builds but don't have the hours necessary to do it the Spike way.

	08-04-2005 16:37									#418
	Get a bigger avatar today!

To illegally level up you type "DebugMode 1" then "dm_levelup".

OK, I fiddled around most of last night and this is what I settled on for my PC. Human female since humans make the best Paladins and I needed the extra feat/skill points. Intial stats STR 14 DEX 12 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 14 CHA 14. Since you get a free 15 levels in HotU I went with 4 levels of Paladin, 1 level of Sorcerer, and 10 levels of RDD. The RDD give her +8 to STR, +5 INT, +2 CON, and +10 AC for at total of STR 22, DEX 12, CON 16, INT 15, , WIS 14, CHA 14. I need the Wis 14 to get 2nd level clerical spells at Paladin level 8 and I need the high strength so I can eventually get Epic Critical which kills enemies which fail a save vs Fort.

With feats I went with focus on longsword, two weapon style, and am working toward that super critical I'll gain at 21th level. Eventually I'd like to pick up improved combat casting, hard skin (+2 AC) and a few other goodies but it will take a while to get them. My end goal is a Paladin/Sorcerer/RDD 8/22/10. I have a pixie familiar to disarm traps and open locks or alternatively I can just bash everything with my strength. I should get +10 stat points by the time I reach 40th level so I plan on putting three into strength (to get 25 total and qualify for super critical damage) and the other 7 into CHA (total of 21) so my sorcerer's powers will grow. All in all not to shabby.

	08-04-2005 16:41									#419
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Most w00tly.
Jam's build had an extra level of Paladin, and only one of sorceror, but I did originally request a RDD who could fight, and she pwned the OC.
How about doing a fancy full version like they have at the Bioware site, showing all the skills and feats you'd choose at each level?
All right, then, just the feats.

	08-04-2005 21:57									#420
	Support Apolyton

quote: My end goal is a Paladin/Sorcerer/RDD 8/22/10. I have a pixie familiar to disarm traps and open locks or alternatively I can just bash everything with my strength. I should get +10 stat points by the time I reach 40th level so I plan on putting three into strength (to get 25 total and qualify for super critical damage) and the other 7 into CHA (total of 21) so my sorcerer's powers will grow. All in all not to shabby.

All well and good, but you should be advised that you won't get near to level 40 in HotU

How about a bard33/blackguard4/paladin3 build? Or a non-fighting cleric17/bard22/monk1? Just trying to think of bonkers characters that would actually work.

-Jam