10-02-2005 06:31									#31
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As for Bush hatred- it is difficult sometimes to think straight when thinking about that waste of human protoplasm. I can see how overly emotionally or non-intellectual types would go off the deep end with it.

	10-02-2005 06:31									#32
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I'm still waiting for that practical solution but all I hear is whining.

Edit: Not you Gepap. I'm speaking to the young agast filled ones.

	10-02-2005 06:32									#33
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wow this thread really blew up... 30 or so posts since I last checked!

	10-02-2005 06:33									#34
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The thing that I would really like to see is the US become less hostile, and drop all this realpolitic ****. This kind of attitude is the problem.

	10-02-2005 06:33									#35
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Practical solution would be a global disarmament, starting from NK then going to USA, Russia, China etc

But I guess that would be too boring for the Americans. Lets bully everyone instead!

	10-02-2005 06:34									#36
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quote: These people think it's all right for Iran to have nuclear weapons.

I don't care if they do. The only reason for not having them would be that there are better things to spend their money on.

If they get them, they can't use them.

Why are you complaining about Iran? Pakistan has nuclear weapons already and has Islamists all through the place, and has had people selling nuclear technology to all and sundry.

	10-02-2005 06:35									#37
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[QUOTE] Originally posted by laurentius
Mrs. Tuberski. Noone else obviously, I mean USA is the country GOD created just to guard other nations

Aww how not-nice it would be if someone would carpet bomb your back yard, well it surely is better to carpet bomb those sand niggers back yards in Baghdad first. [/QUOTE
I never said all of that you guys seem to think that the us is this big bad horrible country. I will agree we have no business in the affairs of other countries govt. But I ask you this who would say the govt of your country be asking for help if sadam bombed you.

	10-02-2005 06:37									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon quote: These people think it's all right for Iran to have nuclear weapons. Why are you complaining about Iran? Pakistan has nuclear weapons already and has Islamists all through the place, and has had people selling nuclear technology to all and sundry.

Didn't you hear? Iranians are Teh EVIL!

Iran would be no more dangerous with nukes than Pakistan would be.

	10-02-2005 06:37									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious So say those without morals. Good luck convincing those of use that do of this. No one is likely to listen to you at all.

there goes kid climbing up on his white horse. Talking all about morality when he is talking about political entities. Nice fairy land you live in kid, keep your dream alive while the rest of us live in the real world

	10-02-2005 06:38									#40
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quote: Originally posted by laurentius Practical solution would be a global disarmament, starting from NK then going to USA, Russia, China etc But I guess that would be too boring for the Americans. Lets bull everyone instead!

Nice, but we've already established that won't work due to cheaters. North Korea, Iran, Pakistan, and India have already agreed to disarm and not seek nukes in the past, but, we both know that piece of paper didn't stop them. China, North Korea, Israel, India, and Pakistan won't get rid of theirs so what good does it do the west & Russia to get rid of theirs? We'd only weaken our position.

Instead we leverage our superior position to encourage acceptable behavior and punish unacceptable behavior.

	10-02-2005 06:39									#41
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I can see why the Iranians would want nuclear weapons. The worlds only superpower hates them and they are surrounded by other hostile regimes, three of which have nuclear weapons.

Jeez... I'd want them if I were them.

	10-02-2005 06:39									#42
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quote: Originally posted by laurentius Practical solution would be a global disarmament, starting from NK then going to USA, Russia, China etc

HOW. Tell us your great plan for disarmament. Tell us your plan on talking to the N. Koreans and Iran.

	10-02-2005 06:40									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber there goes kid climbing up on his white horse. Talking all about morality when he is talking about political entities. Nice fairy land you live in kid, keep your dream alive while the rest of us live in the real world

The real world isn't all that bad, thanks to people like us.

	10-02-2005 06:40									#44
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The simpler fact is the US can't really stop Iran from getting nukes if they want them- so the only question is, what will make Iran stop wanting nukes? The current regime faces a hostile superpower, two neighboring states in transition, a dicy domestic situation, and has several nuclear neighbors or near neighbors. Why wouldn't Tehran want nukes?

	10-02-2005 06:41									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon I can see why the Iranians would want nuclear weapons. The worlds only superpower hates them and they are surrounded by other hostile regimes, three of which have nuclear weapons. Jeez... I'd want them if I were them.

They have every right to want them. Fiji would have every right to want them if they thought they needed the, Just as we have every right to make their life a living hell for trying to get them or give them bribes to get rid of them..

	10-02-2005 06:41									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon I can see why the Iranians would want nuclear weapons. The worlds only superpower hates them and they are surrounded by other hostile regimes, three of which have nuclear weapons. Jeez... I'd want them if I were them.

You have to carrot and stick them into realizing we'll moderate if they moderate but if they insist then there will be confrontation. First economic then military.

But if they agree to be good boys and give up the nukes we'll give you X,Y, and Z.

	10-02-2005 06:42									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon I can see why the Iranians would want nuclear weapons. The worlds only superpower hates them and they are surrounded by other hostile regimes, three of which have nuclear weapons. Jeez... I'd want them if I were them.

Exactly. Notice how the enemies of the US always get desperate for nukes. That shouldn't suprise anyone. If the US really wants to stop the spread of nukes they should stop creating enemies.

	10-02-2005 06:43									#48
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The current admin. will not give carrots, and their prefered stick is currently being used.

	10-02-2005 06:43									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber They have every right to want them. Fiji would have every right to want them if they thought they needed the, Just as we have every right to make their life a living hell for trying to get them or give them bribes to get rid of them..

You don't have any moral right. You are just talking about military ability.

	10-02-2005 06:43									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious The real world isn't all that bad, thanks to people like us.

Either its not all that bad or we are on the edge of oblivion lead by the evil US. Can't have both.

	10-02-2005 06:45									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber Either its not all that bad or we are on the edge of oblivion lead by the evil US. Can't have both.

Let's put it this way. There are people like you in the US that probably would have used nukes already against ME, but people like us have prevented you from doing so.

	10-02-2005 06:46									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious You don't have any moral right. You are just talking about military ability.

As president I want to hear a lot more about military ability than moral rights. Id like to keep morality as far away from the briefing as possible.

Edit: Morality changes from person to person. Military ability should be what people look at..

	10-02-2005 06:48									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin You have to carrot and stick them into realizing we'll moderate if they moderate but if they insist then there will be confrontation. First economic then military. But if they agree to be good boys and give up the nukes we'll give you X,Y, and Z.

	10-02-2005 06:48									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber As president I want to hear a lot more about military ability than moral rights. Id like to keep morality as far away from the briefing as possible.

That's exactly what I mean. You would just go around nuking every nation that didn't bow down before your wrath. No one will vote for you (we can only pray).

	10-02-2005 06:50									#55
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quote: Edit: Morality changes from person to person. Military ability should be what people look at..

Great. So what the terrorists did was not wrong in a sense that could appeal to every reasonable person?

Might makes right....

...no wonder humanity is doomed.

	10-02-2005 06:50									#56
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quote: Posted by Mrs. Tuberski: I never said all of that you guys seem to think that the us is this big bad horrible country. I will agree we have no business in the affairs of other countries govt. But I ask you this who would say the govt of your country be asking for help if sadam bombed you.

Well, I'm only judgeing you by your deeds. Saddam carpet bombing Finland with DU explosives was even at the height of his power highly unlikely.

But you bring up an interesting point. Why do we bash you so much. I think its because deep down inside we would love you very muc hand would like to be your friends. And we are angry because you are like that brother who just cant get along with other people and does bad things to others. We feel rejected by you and disappointed by the way you turned up to be. If you would be a little more brother to us we would give you another chance. Why are you so aggressive? Such behaviour will only drive you into destruction.

Personally I like lot of Americans, I watch superbowl every year and enjoy lot of American things. Even my uncle lives in Balmer (Baltimore) ans so I've never grown up to actually hate USA. Its only lately that I've grown disillusioned with your nation. So I guess I'm just disappointed...

	10-02-2005 06:51									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious That's exactly what I mean. You would just go around nuking every nation that didn't bow down before your wrath. No one will vote for you (we can only pray).

It's not pretty when you start with your fantasys. I don't trust your morality or Bush's morality or the Iranians morality.

	10-02-2005 06:54									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon quote: Edit: Morality changes from person to person. Military ability should be what people look at.. Great. So what the terrorists did was not wrong in a sense that could appeal to every reasonable person? Might makes right.... ...no wonder humanity is doomed.

In their mind they were acting very moral. I wasn't concerned if our response was moral or not I merely expected my goverment to put an end to the threat that those presented. (if you want to argue if the goverments response was effective or not then I might be inclined to agree with you even but it has nothing to do with morality) You put yourself at the mercy of a person's morality then your gonna get ****ed most of the time.

	10-02-2005 06:54									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber HOW. Tell us your great plan for disarmament. Tell us your plan on talking to the N. Koreans and Iran.

I'm incapable of making such plans with the skills and knowledge I have at the moment. Maybe we could come up with something if we worked together?

	10-02-2005 06:55									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber It's not pretty when you start with your fantasys. I don't trust your morality or Bush's morality or the Iranians morality.

You don't care about morality because you don't want the US to lose power. You don't care about other people or nations. Isn't this correct. Don't pretend to have your own moral argument regarding this. Your POV is simply based on nationalism and self-interest.