25-02-2005 04:25									#1
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We have several issues with the more-porkier team

1. they are playing games with our Ambassador

2. they (as Egypt) have an early UU and thus a threat

3. they are real close

so lets get this matter sorted

are we to war with them? when? how?

	25-02-2005 04:28									#2
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Yes, we must attack them. In view of their hostile behaviour, I'd say we change the orders for our regular warriors and direct them towards the Porkers asap. Also, after barracks start archer in Karakorum, change scout to warrior in Kazan, start another warrior after that, rushbuild spear after that, rushbuild archer in Ta-Tu, kill the pig.

	25-02-2005 04:43									#3
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I have emailed the Horde Leadership, pointing them to this thread, after reading the others.

O will hold the save until we have maximun participation, or our time is up...

So please have your say

	25-02-2005 04:46									#4
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This plan will give us 5 regular warriors, 1 regular spear, 1 regular archer and if we rush in Karakorum too 2 vet archers in 10 turns on a position adjacent to Kazan. This task force is going to need another 6 to 10 turns to get to Porkers. What kind of defence can they muster in the meantime?

Perhaps our scout should outflank their warrior and explore them in advance, while the preparations for the military campaign are on the way. This is a double-edged sword as our scouting them might alert the Porkers something is afoot.

Last edited by Ljube on 25-02-2005 at 04:52

	25-02-2005 04:58									#5
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Another option is to proceed without barracks in Karakorum. This will give us 3 regular archers for the price of 2 vets with rushing, or 2 regulars without rushing (my preference as we want Karakorum to be able to build settler).

So the army would be: 5 regular warriors, 1 regular spear, 3 regular archers.

	25-02-2005 05:02									#6
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Barbarian village is a good place to upgrade our regular archers, so after we build our first archer in Karakorum, head for those barbs and promote to vet. Later meet with the task force en route.

Also, please note that from the power graph it is apparent the Porkers built two cities on turn 2 which makes those two cities one space apart. This is a fairly good defensive position.

	25-02-2005 05:02									#7
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ahh you talk of rushing, at this stage does not rushing cost lives?

	25-02-2005 05:03									#8
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Indeed, but the reward is high.

	25-02-2005 05:09									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Ljube-ljcvetko Indeed, but the reward is high.

I agree. Victory before happiness! Our subjects will get over it soon. I am more for keeping the barracks in Khan's Blood Hall. Having Vets could be decisive.

Ljube's plan for the army appears to be a good one, but we must ensure our safety from others as well. The Euphoricans appear friendly, but I am sure they would be opportunistic if the occasion arose.

	25-02-2005 05:10									#10
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My main concern is that these would be short term gains at a cost of long term issues...

but please continue, I am listening

	25-02-2005 05:14									#11
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execute them all

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	25-02-2005 05:14									#12
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO Ljube's plan for the army appears to be a good one, but we must ensure our safety from others as well. The Euphoricans appear friendly, but I am sure they would be opportunistic if the occasion arose.

They are wimps who obey our orders without question. They are happy to enter into unfavourable deals just to gain some favour with us. They strive to please.

Furthermore, if we change barracks to archer and parade it near their warrior they will be scared shitless and forget about sending anything our way lest they provoke us.

	25-02-2005 05:17									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Ljube-ljcvetko They are wimps who obey our orders without question. They are happy to enter into unfavourable deals just to gain some favour with us. They strive to please. Furthermore, if we change barracks to archer and parade it near their warrior they will be scared shitless and forget about sending anything our way lest they provoke us.

ok...

thats an option as well

	25-02-2005 05:23									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Paddy the Scot My main concern is that these would be short term gains at a cost of long term issues... but please continue, I am listening

Paddy, you are right about this. We have a choice. We can ignore the Porkers and build settlers and stuff, expand and stuff, and wait for them to research wheel (which they surely started), connect horses and come with war chariots.
Or they may be friendly, who knows.

I haven't played with anybody of them, but you have. This is a good moment to tell us if they are builders or warmongers, pacifistic or militaristic, friendly or aggressive.

	25-02-2005 05:27									#15
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We can minimize these issues also with the addition of slaves.

	25-02-2005 05:29									#16
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO We can minimize these issues also with the addition of slaves.

yes indeedy..great idea

	25-02-2005 05:35									#17
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Gramps, do you know anything about the playstyle of the Porkers: Krill, Ormuzd, Conqueror, jshelr, Master Zen?

	25-02-2005 05:39									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Ljube-ljcvetko Gramps, do you know anything about the playstyle of the Porkers: Krill, Ormuzd, Conqueror, jshelr, Master Zen?

Infidels all of them

I say we play our style and take them as we may

An emminence front is what we should we go with is as forward as we should be with any whom come across our path


Gramps

	25-02-2005 05:50									#19
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More intelligence from your ambassador. What else would you expect?

Conqueror disappeared ten days ago and is nowhere to be seen. The team is run by Ormuzd now, with big influence from Krill and jshelr. They play as a triumvirate. However, their commitment to the game is low.

	25-02-2005 05:53									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Ljube-ljcvetko Paddy, you are right about this. We have a choice. We can ignore the Porkers and build settlers and stuff, expand and stuff, and wait for them to research wheel (which they surely started), connect horses and come with war chariots. Or they may be friendly, who knows. I haven't played with anybody of them, but you have. This is a good moment to tell us if they are builders or warmongers, pacifistic or militaristic, friendly or aggressive.

Ljube, my concern was not so much settler & workers, as to the actual city populations for when a unit is rushed.

I too would like to see the Porkers removed quickly indeed.

Ormuzd, their turn player is a War Lord, make no mistake of that.

He has been my Supreme Military Commander in many a Demo Game Government.

Krill is a slow builder.

I believe that Bongo will have some detail on Master Zen

I play with Jshler a bit, he is a bit of a builder type.

Conqueror not sure of.

	25-02-2005 05:58									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Ljube-ljcvetko More intelligence from your ambassador. What else would you expect? Conqueror disappeared ten days ago and is nowhere to be seen. The team is run by Ormuzd now, with big influence from Krill and jshelr. They play as a triumvirate. However, their commitment to the game is low.

well let us remove all of their concern, by removing their civ

	25-02-2005 06:00									#22
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Our big chance with them is if they make a mistake and build settlers instead of military. And they are good targets because they don't have any military tech, so even if they opt to build military it's gonna be warriors.

Conqueror and Master Zen are not so active, so it's down to three. One of the three is a warlord, but is he uncompromisingly militaristic like I am?

	25-02-2005 06:01									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Paddy the Scot well let us remove all of their concern, by removing their civ

	25-02-2005 06:02									#24
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He does play different roles

He can take on the role of a builder as well

I'd say that combined they be more builder than war

	25-02-2005 07:41									#25
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We should dispatch our scout in their direction immediately to determine their exact location and surrounding terrain.

Ambassador Ljube should offer friendship messages with trade offers that are just a little bit one sided that they will not take. Negotiations should be future looking such as possible regional defense in the future.

With their level of uninvolvement, this should allow us to move forces into position without them having a clue.

Thy have already played their turn and I would imagine that they have made a counter offer to ours. I suggest a counteroffer to that while maintaining the illusion of friendliness.

Ambassador...Great Khan...Your thoughts?

	25-02-2005 07:51									#26
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Illusion of friendliness is mandatory. Counter-offers are just what we need. However exploring them might arouse suspicion, I don't know.

	25-02-2005 07:56									#27
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Perhaps you are correct. If we don't proceed down the offer-counteroffer path then perhaps we should occupy them with negotiations on mundane affairs.

	25-02-2005 08:17									#28
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yes it could be best not sendingb the scout in just yet, and we had hoped he would find more huts in the centre

my concern is that their warrior will stay on a path, heading for our undefended cities... I know we can fix that though

	25-02-2005 12:33									#29
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Ive played against krill as the mongols and he killeed my scout as soon as I found his civ without diplomacy so I say do not trust him ever!!!


I dont like the idea of being too hasty we should finish the Barracks and maybe pop rushing is verging into Paranoia !

If we stick with the barracks we'll have guarenteed vets against mostly Regulars this does make a difference.

I would also err caution where snoopy is concerned he is quite capable of taking advantage of any situation that arises. Well we are off warring he will surround our civ with new cities.

I do not say no to war but I do say calm down and think before we speak.

	25-02-2005 14:08									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Paddy the Scot I believe that Bongo will have some detail on Master Zen

My impression is that he is a warmonger, albeit a careful one. He likes to be prepared before attacking (then again, who doesn't )

quote: I play with Jshler a bit, he is a bit of a builder type.

And a devious diplomat, don't show him too much trust. He's the kind of guy that will treat you fairly up to the point where he thinks he can win the game by screwing you over